Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

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Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Green_Goblin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:29 pm

Yamcha was killed by a Saibaman whose power level while not exploding is stated to be "over 1200" (Raditz is now officially stated to be 1600) and while exploding probably went as over as 2000 in order to take out Yamcha (whose power level upon arriving to the battlefield was 1480) without any chance for him to walk out of it.

Now, this event made some fan to produce the "Yamcha meme" which caught on with that poor excuse for humor that even made it's way to DBS episode 70. BUT those same people who laugh at this ignore the fact a calm Saibaman is 6 times stronger than King Piccolo who killed Master Roshi (the guy who in the new DB era got a few Toriyama handjobs) and over 6.5 times stronger than Tambourine who killed Krillin (who's a fan favorite). These last 2 villains are being treated as "respectful opponents" and the Saibaman is viewed like a Magikarp while in reality that is not the case.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Kid Buu » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:02 pm

It's probably because the Saibaman was a weaker foe, while at the time of King Piccolo he was stronger than Roshi and the big bad of the arc.
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Zephyr » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:15 pm

Context is more important than numbers that aren't even present in the actual story.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:28 pm

Saibemen are throwaways but they were a bench mark and established as a threat because they were equal to raditz' power and I never got the intention that yamucha's death was supposed to played for laughs. But I do feel like yamcha does has few redeaming qualities which leads him to being the butt of jokes

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by AnzuMazaki » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:35 pm

I feel like it could be hypocritical.
It had damaged Yamcha's character a great deal after that fan made it into a meme.
I felt like Yamcha was respected more from 1985-2008, even if he was still massively hated for "cheating on Bulma".
The hatred and meme identity MULTIPLIED after the meme surfaced.

I just wish it did not turn him into a joke in Super...
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:44 pm

That's not my recollection. I don't think he was ever hated, much less for "cheating" on Bulma. Fans just didn't think much of him because he never did anything of note in DBZ besides be cannon fodder.
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:46 pm

Tambourine and then Piccolo were the strongest characters we'd seen up to their appearances while the Saibaimen were expressly demonstrated to be weak grunts. Any member of the cast worth a salt should have been beyond their level of strength. Except for Yamcha, who died, because he is a weak loser.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:49 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Tambourine and then Piccolo were the strongest characters we'd seen up to their appearances while the Saibaimen were expressly demonstrated to be weak grunts. Any member of the cast worth a salt should have been beyond their level of strength. Except for Yamcha, who died, because he is a weak loser.
Yamcha didn't die because he was weak. He died because his hubris got the best of him. Toriyama's point was to surprise the audience and to tell them the heroes were in for a fight they couldn't take lightly, even against grunts. Yamcha won that fight on "points".
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:57 pm

ABED wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Tambourine and then Piccolo were the strongest characters we'd seen up to their appearances while the Saibaimen were expressly demonstrated to be weak grunts. Any member of the cast worth a salt should have been beyond their level of strength. Except for Yamcha, who died, because he is a weak loser.
Yamcha didn't die because he was weak. He died because his hubris got the best of him. Toriyama's point was to surprise the audience and to tell them the heroes were in for a fight they couldn't take lightly, even against grunts. Yamcha won that fight on "points".
I was just meme'ing on the weak part. Substitute any word for inadequacy and you'll get the gist
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:16 pm

The Cultivars are just never presented as intimidating. They're 3-foot tall identical-looking plant people who are clearly presented as fodder to be cut down as a delaying tactic. They're the inept mugger with a knife at the beginning of every superhero movie. They're the rats you kill seconds into the first dungeon of any RPG. For one of them to take out a major character in a solo bout was and is considered ridiculous. That Yamcha loses purely because of his arrogance - getting struck down while talking trash no less - adds to the moment. The cherry on top of the whole incident is Krillin, the kicked around unlucky schmuck of the series, proceeding to massacre three of them in seconds immediately after this.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:14 pm

Since when was Raditz 1600? What are you talking about

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:18 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:The Cultivars are just never presented as intimidating. They're 3-foot tall identical-looking plant people who are clearly presented as fodder to be cut down as a delaying tactic. They're the inept mugger with a knife at the beginning of every superhero movie. They're the rats you kill seconds into the first dungeon of any RPG. For one of them to take out a major character in a solo bout was and is considered ridiculous. That Yamcha loses purely because of his arrogance - getting struck down while talking trash no less - adds to the moment. The cherry on top of the whole incident is Krillin, the kicked around unlucky schmuck of the series, proceeding to massacre three of them in seconds immediately after this.
They are presented as threatening. Sure, they are pawns, but even pawns can be dangerous. And when was the last time Yamcha was a major character? He's a secondary character. It's a great moment because of the things you mentioned. Even though Buffy didn't die, one of my favorite moments is when she's stabbed an almost killed by a nobody of a vampire. It says to the audience that what she does is inherently dangerous. She can go up against demons, vampire masters, the worst of the worst, and defeat them all, but any given night could still be her last. She can't get lazy and think she's invincible.
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Green_Goblin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:56 pm

PFM18 wrote:Since when was Raditz 1600? What are you talking about
Image
It was stated as his power level on Earth in his new cards for promoting the "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:01 pm

Green_Goblin wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Since when was Raditz 1600? What are you talking about
Image
It was stated as his power level on Earth in his new cards for promoting the "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.
I wouldn't take promotional material seriously.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Green_Goblin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:03 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Green_Goblin wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Since when was Raditz 1600? What are you talking about
Image
It was stated as his power level on Earth in his new cards for promoting the "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.
I wouldn't take promotional material seriously.
Maybe as a Great Ape in this age he'd be at 2000. lol

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by Green_Goblin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:06 pm

AnzuMazaki wrote:I feel like it could be hypocritical.
It had damaged Yamcha's character a great deal after that fan made it into a meme.
I felt like Yamcha was respected more from 1985-2008, even if he was still massively hated for "cheating on Bulma".
The hatred and meme identity MULTIPLIED after the meme surfaced.

I just wish it did not turn him into a joke in Super...
100% on that. :!:

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:26 pm

Where'd this idea come from that Yamcha garnered a lot of love and respect from the audience until just recently?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by ruler9871 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:29 pm

The idea that Yamcha being a joke/meme character is a Modern DB thing isn't true:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bPx_hK8ZVU

Yamcha was always written as a joke since day one, never a badass.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by J.T. Drago » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:12 pm

Yamcha was always meant to be the butt monkey of the group, but at least back then, he was still a pretty great fighter and he probably still is, if given the opportunity. The Wolf Fang Fist is probably one of the most iconic physical moves in Dragon Ball, and he created the Spirit Ball by himself which I think was a first at the time. I always felt like that move in particular could be devastating if done right. It probably would've helped a bunch if he got to fight along side the other Z Fighters in the Resurrection "F" movie/arc for one. Heck, maybe it would've been useful during the Tournament of Power? Well, maybe. Depends on the target.

I have wondered if the whole being hero being cocky and dying is something meme worthy in Japan. Kind of like what happens with Mami in Madoka Magica. What happens to her is pretty cruel, but now it's kind of joke/meme within the community. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that Funimation altered Yamcha's lines the most when dubbing. Is that true?

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Re: Is the Dragon Ball fandom hypocritical about the "Yamcha meme"?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:52 pm

Green_Goblin wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Since when was Raditz 1600? What are you talking about
Image
It was stated as his power level on Earth in his new cards for promoting the "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.
If you're referring to the cards that I think you're referring to, then you misinterpreted it to actually mean power level. LSSJ Broly's card read that it was 9600 or so. But if we are going by conventional scouters power levels; you'd be dumb not to put him into at least the quintillions.

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