The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

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The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:14 pm

I own the R1 "Dragon Ball: The Saga of Goku" which covers episodes 001-013 and the first movie (edited) but that was it. Was this dub just like a test run or something?

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:27 pm

As far as we know scripts were written for the first 26 episodes but only the first 13 were dubbed.

I don't think BLT was a test dub as we know from the season set extras Funimation did a test dub with this cast that retained the Harmony Gold name changes.

My guess is that if the BLT dub had a better timeslot it would have been popular enough to get a full run of all 153 episodes and we'd have a bigger number of fans nostalgiac for OG Dragon Ball, which would have been amazing as it'd mean we would of had Scott McNeil for the Piccolo arc.
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:40 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:27 pm
As far as we know scripts were written for the first 26 episodes but only the first 13 were dubbed.

I don't think BLT was a test dub as we know from the season set extras Funimation did a test dub with this cast that retained the Harmony Gold name changes.

My guess is that if the BLT dub had a better timeslot it would have been popular enough to get a full run of all 153 episodes and we'd have a bigger number of fans nostalgiac for OG Dragon Ball, which would have been amazing as it'd mean we would of had Scott McNeil for the Piccolo arc.
So with 26 episodes in total for that initial order it would've been running up through the end of the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, though had the run not been cut short at episode 13 it makes me wonder if they had placed it on later times then it could have likely been dubbed even further.

Also, i am guessing when FUNi went back and started up dubbing the show again in 2001 they likely for episodes 14-26 dusted off and used the scripts that had been written for them in 1995.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by linkdude20002001 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:49 pm

The 2001 script was just a rewriting of their 1995 script, which was just a rewriting of Harmony Gold’s script. So basically just rewriting for the sake of rewriting, with it becoming less and less like the original Japanese script with each rewrite.
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:14 pm
I own the R1 "Dragon Ball: The Saga of Goku" which covers episodes 001-013 and the first movie (edited) but that was it. Was this dub just like a test run or something?
I recall hearing that Funimation wanted to license just Dragon Ball Z, but Toei said they had to start with Dragon Ball. So they did, but I doubt it did well. It was on way too early for me. I only saw maybe half of the 13 episodes.

Had they continued with Dragon Ball, perhaps we still would’ve seen a similar outcome of Funimation replacing the British Columbian voice actors with Texan...random people. Or maybe not. Perhaps Funimation has a better deal with Josanne B. Lovick Productions, BLT, and Kidmark/Trimark than they did with Saban, Ocean, and Pioneer/Geneon, and perhaps the (most likely) financial setback of them dubbing the unsuccessful Dragon Ball was part of what led them to their need(?) to go solo.
Last edited by linkdude20002001 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm

It wasn't a "test run"; it was literally FUNimation beginning to dub the series and releasing what they produced. That was it. That was the dub. It aired on TV, came out on VHS, and much later came out on DVD.

(To me, it's still "the dub".)

As noted, they were already planning out a full 26-episode run, with 13 episodes done, plans to do the next 13 later that season, and another batch the following year. They even had merchandise out (see: Staff Slashing Goku, Sword Swinging Yamcha, Fast Kicking Krillin) and in the wings (see: Lunch figure!). They stopped short after 13 episodes, regrouped, and instead moved on to DBZ in 1996.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:58 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm
It wasn't a "test run"; it was literally FUNimation beginning to dub the series and releasing what they produced. That was it. That was the dub.

(To me, it's still "the dub".)

As noted, they were already planning out a full 26-episode run, with 13 episodes done, plans to do the next 13 later that season, and another batch the following year. They even had merchandise out (see: Staff Slashing Goku, Sword Swinging Yamcha, Fast Kicking Krillin) and in the wings (see: Lunch figure!). They stopped short after 13 episodes, regrouped, and instead moved on to DBZ in 1996.

Recommended reading from our "Press Archive":

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https://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archiv ... -synopses/
Yeah, i have heard about what it was that potentially caused them to stop at that point and move on to DBZ the next year, mostly through a combination of the insanely early morning time slots they placed the dub in and ratings not exactly being so hot. I definitely couldn't imagine getting up at the crack of dawn to watch the show on weekdays if had i been old enough to do so at that point. It's clear that things didn't really take off until after DBZ had finished it's syndication run and got picked up for reruns by Cartoon Network/Toonami soon after. Even still, it wasn't until 2001 after FUNi had been dong Z themselves for a while that they finally got around to continuing with dubbing the original series from where they had left off.
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:06 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:49 pm
Had they continued with Dragon Ball, perhaps we still would’ve seen a similar outcome of Funimation replacing the British Columbian voice actors with Texan...random people. Or maybe not. Perhaps Funimation has a better deal with Lovewick, BLT, and Kidmark/Trimark than they did with Saban, Ocean, and Pioneer/Geneon, and perhaps the (most likely) financial setback of them dubbing the unsuccessful Dragon Ball was part of what led them to their need(?) to go solo.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:58 pm
Yeah, i have heard about what potentially it was that caused them to stop at that point and move on to DBZ, mostly a combination of the insanely early morning time slots they placed the dub in and ratings not being so hot. I definitely couldn't imagine getting up at the crack of dawn to watch the show on weekdays if had i been old enough to do so at that point.m
A lot of people assume Dragon Ball did badly, and that's why they moved on. I've never seen anything to support this. It's all just assumptions.

My pet theory remains that Funi and Trimark/BLT had a not-great deal going, and that's why they didn't even finish the full 26-episode order. Funi being in a hurry to get out of a bad deal would explain why there was the kerfuffle with the DVD distribution of those first 13 episodes for such a long time.

Though, Gen Fukunaga claimed in an interview that they "Begged to see if we could skip past [the original series]", so it's entirely possible they hired the Dick & Rogers crew (the studio this dub was recorded at) to do the BLT dub, almost as a throwaway, deliberately sabotaged it by getting it put in early timeslots, and canned it at 13 episodes so they could get straight into Z, which got on air via a very nice deal with Saban that got them something like 80% coverage of the USA, with top ratings each week it aired.

Unfortunately, we can only speculate; to my knowledge we were never given a real reasoning why it was canned at 13, and there's a million reasons why each of the three theories I've referred to here could be doubted (we've never seen ratings numbers to my knowledge, and decent portions of the USA actually did have it air about the same time as the first several episodes of Z would later air; a bad deal similarly has no evidence, just some compelling alignments of circumstance; and sabotage is quite a heavy accusation, particularly given they were trying for merchandise, etc., so... There's reasonable doubt for every possibility).
VegettoEX wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm
(To me, it's still "the dub".)
Same. I have an affinity for the Ocean cast, and it's generally a better piece of work than either Funi's in-house dub, or Blue Water's dub, of those first 13. (Though arguably Blue Water had better scripts than either)
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:10 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:06 pm
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:49 pm
Had they continued with Dragon Ball, perhaps we still would’ve seen a similar outcome of Funimation replacing the British Columbian voice actors with Texan...random people. Or maybe not. Perhaps Funimation has a better deal with Lovewick, BLT, and Kidmark/Trimark than they did with Saban, Ocean, and Pioneer/Geneon, and perhaps the (most likely) financial setback of them dubbing the unsuccessful Dragon Ball was part of what led them to their need(?) to go solo.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:58 pm
Yeah, i have heard about what potentially it was that caused them to stop at that point and move on to DBZ, mostly a combination of the insanely early morning time slots they placed the dub in and ratings not being so hot. I definitely couldn't imagine getting up at the crack of dawn to watch the show on weekdays if had i been old enough to do so at that point.m
A lot of people assume Dragon Ball did badly, and that's why they moved on. I've never seen anything to support this. It's all just assumptions.

My pet theory remains that Funi and Trimark/BLT had a not-great deal going, and that's why they didn't even finish the full 26-episode order. Funi being in a hurry to get out of a bad deal would explain why there was the kerfuffle with the DVD distribution of those first 13 episodes for such a long time.

Though, Gen Fukunaga claimed in an interview that they "Begged to see if we could skip past [the original series]", so it's entirely possible they hired the Dick & Rogers crew (the studio this dub was recorded at) to do the BLT dub, almost as a throwaway, deliberately sabotaged it by getting it put in early timeslots, and canned it at 13 episodes so they could get straight into Z, which got on air via a very nice deal with Saban that got them something like 80% coverage of the USA, with top ratings each week it aired.

Unfortunately, we can only speculate; to my knowledge we were never given a real reasoning why it was canned at 13, and there's a million reasons why each of the three theories I've referred to here could be doubted (we've never seen ratings numbers to my knowledge, and decent portions of the USA actually did have it air at a somewhat reasonable time, though still very early in the morning; a bad deal similarly has no evidence, and seems like quite a leap, realistically; and sabotage is quite a heavy accusation, particularly given they were trying for merchandise, etc., so... There's reasonable doubt for every possibility).
VegettoEX wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm
(To me, it's still "the dub".)
Same. I have an affinity for the Ocean cast, and it's generally a better piece of work than either Funi's in-house dub, or Blue Water's dub, of those first 13. (Though arguably Blue Water had better scripts than either)
Yeah, there's been all these various theories from over the years as to exactly why they had scrapped production on the dub after Goku's transformation but we have never gotten any official confirmation from FUNimation or any other involved parties as to exactly why they stopped mid way through the run.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:14 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Yeah, there's been all these various theories from over the years as to why they scrapped production on the dub after Goku's transformation but we have never gotten any official confirmation from FUNimation or any other involved parties as to exactly why they stopped mid way through the run.
Indeed. Just hints, which could mean anything.

For instance, in that interview, Fukunaga says if they hadn't been able to skip to Z, it would have been a real problem, and said that Saban helped them negotiate this, and convince Toei. So... Does that mean the ratings were poor, and they wanted to rebrand with Saban at the helm? Was the BLT deal really bad, and they wanted to cut BLT out of the equation entirely? Did they exit out of the BLT deal for Saban because Saban cut a better deal, then use Saban's clout to try one last ditch effort to skip DB? Or, was this perhaps just him inventing stuff for this interview to make the early dealings of Funimation not seem so nonsensical in hindsight?

We may never know.

But regardless, people who say it had bad ratings always bother me when they say that, because we just don't know what happened. Misinformation -- particularly misinformation regarding dubbing, and especially how the Vancouver dubs were produced -- is so prevalent in this fandom, so I try to stamp that out where possible. :lol:
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:22 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:14 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Yeah, there's been all these various theories from over the years as to why they scrapped production on the dub after Goku's transformation but we have never gotten any official confirmation from FUNimation or any other involved parties as to exactly why they stopped mid way through the run.
Indeed. Just hints, which could mean anything.

For instance, in that interview, Fukunaga says if they hadn't been able to skip to Z, it would have been a real problem, and said that Saban helped them negotiate this, and convince Toei. So... Does that mean the ratings were poor, and they wanted to rebrand with Saban at the helm? Was the BLT deal really bad, and they wanted to cut BLT out of the equation entirely? Had they been conspiring this from the beginning, and getting Saban to help out with the pitch was a key part of their strategy to skip DB?

We may never know.

But regardless, people who say it had bad ratings always bother me when they say that, because we just don't know what happened. Misinformation -- particularly misinformation regarding dubbing, and especially how the Vancouver dubs were produced -- is so prevalent in this fandom, so I try to stamp that out where possible. :lol:
That Fukunaga interview was very intriguing, especially the parts about the test pilot footage of movie 1 they were talking about where they used the Harmony Gold dub's names (Zero.etc) before being changed and where Toei wanted all the series aired here in sequence which of course ultimately didn't end up happening.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:43 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:14 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Yeah, there's been all these various theories from over the years as to why they scrapped production on the dub after Goku's transformation but we have never gotten any official confirmation from FUNimation or any other involved parties as to exactly why they stopped mid way through the run.
Indeed. Just hints, which could mean anything.

For instance, in that interview, Fukunaga says if they hadn't been able to skip to Z, it would have been a real problem, and said that Saban helped them negotiate this, and convince Toei. So... Does that mean the ratings were poor, and they wanted to rebrand with Saban at the helm? Was the BLT deal really bad, and they wanted to cut BLT out of the equation entirely? Did they exit out of the BLT deal for Saban because Saban cut a better deal, then use Saban's clout to try one last ditch effort to skip DB? Or, was this perhaps just him inventing stuff for this interview to make the early dealings of Funimation not seem so nonsensical in hindsight?

We may never know.

But regardless, people who say it had bad ratings always bother me when they say that, because we just don't know what happened. Misinformation -- particularly misinformation regarding dubbing, and especially how the Vancouver dubs were produced -- is so prevalent in this fandom, so I try to stamp that out where possible. :lol:
Hm, interesting interview. Thanks!

I don't know how Fukunaga had the balls to say "as close as possible to the original creator's work" (or along those lines) and then they show Dragon Ball Z's Season Sets footage which destroyed picture detail and of course, it was cropped to 16:9 AR than keep the authentic aspect ratio. Kaio-sama's antennas were totally gone because of the "enhanced" remaster.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Dark Vegeta-Sama » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:14 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Yeah, there's been all these various theories from over the years as to why they scrapped production on the dub after Goku's transformation but we have never gotten any official confirmation from FUNimation or any other involved parties as to exactly why they stopped mid way through the run.
Indeed. Just hints, which could mean anything.

For instance, in that interview, Fukunaga says if they hadn't been able to skip to Z, it would have been a real problem, and said that Saban helped them negotiate this, and convince Toei. So... Does that mean the ratings were poor, and they wanted to rebrand with Saban at the helm? Was the BLT deal really bad, and they wanted to cut BLT out of the equation entirely? Did they exit out of the BLT deal for Saban because Saban cut a better deal, then use Saban's clout to try one last ditch effort to skip DB? Or, was this perhaps just him inventing stuff for this interview to make the early dealings of Funimation not seem so nonsensical in hindsight?

We may never know.

But regardless, people who say it had bad ratings always bother me when they say that, because we just don't know what happened. Misinformation -- particularly misinformation regarding dubbing, and especially how the Vancouver dubs were produced -- is so prevalent in this fandom, so I try to stamp that out where possible. :lol:
The BLT test dub that they briefly show in the Youtube video with Saffron Henderson playing Zero rather than Goku is exactly the type of bonus content that should be included in some future anniversary release.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:56 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:58 pm
it wasn't until 2001 after FUNi had been dong Z themselves for a while that they finally got around to continuing with dubbing the original series from where they had left off.
Except it wasn't from where they left off. The 2001 DB dub covered the first 13 episodes as well as the rest of the series (it wasn't like with Z where ep 1-67 were given a full redub years after the Season 3 dub). The 2001 DB dub effectively wrote the BLT dubbed episodes out of continuity, and a big reason for it was due to how the BLT dub handled Roshi (innocent but "impure" desires to be with elderly women? He's never acted like that anywhere else. The closest thing was when the Bang Zoom dub of Super gave Roshi non-existent "gambling debts"). A shame, as the BLT dub has better acting that Funi DB or Blue Water DB and is more consistent than either, but it's hard to recommend it as the primary way to watch the Pilaf Saga. If we were talking about the movies, however, BLT DB Movie 1 + Edited DB Movies 2 and 3 is the best way to watch with an English dub of those films (Harmony Gold's skipping of DB Movie 2 did it no favors, Speedy is all around shit, and the (missing) Big Green dub, which unfortunately is the only consistent dub of all three movies, is most likely going to be shit too.
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:04 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:56 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:58 pm
it wasn't until 2001 after FUNi had been dong Z themselves for a while that they finally got around to continuing with dubbing the original series from where they had left off.
Except it wasn't from where they left off. The 2001 DB dub covered the first 13 episodes as well as the rest of the series (it wasn't like with Z where ep 1-67 were given a full redub years after the Season 3 dub). The 2001 DB dub effectively wrote the BLT dubbed episodes out of continuity, and a big reason for it was due to how the BLT dub handled Roshi (innocent but "impure" desires to be with elderly women? He's never acted like that anywhere else. The closest thing was when the Bang Zoom dub of Super gave Roshi non-existent "gambling debts"). A shame, as the BLT dub has better acting that Funi DB or Blue Water DB and is more consistent than either, but it's hard to recommend it as the primary way to watch the Pilaf Saga. If we were talking about the movies, however, BLT DB Movie 1 + Edited DB Movies 2 and 3 is the best way to watch with an English dub of those films (Harmony Gold's skipping of DB Movie 2 did it no favors, Speedy is all around shit, and the (missing) Big Green dub, which unfortunately is the only consistent dub of all three movies, is most likely going to be shit too.
Oops i misspoke there, for some reason i momentarily forgot that they went back and re dubbed 1-13 in addition to continuing on through to the end. :?

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:45 pm

I find the idea that this dub was produced as a way to sabotage original Dragon Ball silly. This wouldn't have landed a national Canadian TV deal on YTV, merch from Bandai America and a home video release if it was just a legal formality.
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:43 pm
Hm, interesting interview. Thanks!

I don't know how Fukunaga had the balls to say "as close as possible to the original creator's work" (or along those lines) and then they show Dragon Ball Z's Season Sets footage which destroyed picture detail and of course, it was cropped to 16:9 AR than keep the authentic aspect ratio. Kaio-sama's antennas were totally gone because of the "enhanced" remaster.
Gen is a company man, on account of Funimation being his company. He will say whatever as long as it makes them look good at that specific moment. A few months back, Forbes ran an article on Funimation and he was quoted as saying their goal always was to deliver anime to North America. Those with a long memory will remember that Funimation was essentially a children's entertainment company, with their first internal VHS release being a Chuck E Cheese video. They had very few anime properties until the mid-2000s and pivoted into that direction because it was the only thing that worked.
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:49 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:04 pm


Oops i misspoke there, for some reason i momentarily forgot that they went back and re dubbed 1-13 in addition to continuing on through to the end. :?
In your defense due to Trimark still having distribution rights for the first 13 episodes the in-house dub of those episode didn’t get a home video release until...2009? 8 years after the episodes were dubbed and aired on Toonami. So it’s not unreasonable to have thought Funimation just picked up where they left off if your primary way of seeing Dragon Ball back then was vhs/dvd

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:59 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:45 pm
I find the idea that this dub was produced as a way to sabotage original Dragon Ball silly. This wouldn't have landed a national Canadian TV deal on YTV, merch from Bandai America and a home video release if it was just a legal formality.
Exactly. There are some pretty gaping holes in this, despite it being one of the theories pointed to more heavily by the little evidence available.

And yet, people still go around saying "ratings were bad" as if they know what they're talking about...

Can ya tell this misinformation and assumption culture in this fandom (and really, pop culture in general these days) is a big pet peeve of mine? :lol:
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Bryesque » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:47 pm

This dub was actually my introduction to Dragon Ball, back when it aired on YTV in 1995 - which might be why I've always been more nostalgic for the original series than Z, really. I've still got a copy of the DVD set that I kind of treasure for that reason.

Obviously the censoring/editing is... not great... (though the cheap and awkward editing over nudity and sexual content is super amusing). But the casting and acting itself is pretty rock-solid, and you can see how it basically set the standard for these characters' dub voices to this day.

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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:27 pm

Dont forget this epic opening!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqcdFywCRks
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Re: The Trimark (BLT) Dub of Dragon Ball

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:34 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:27 pm
Dont forget this epic opening!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqcdFywCRks
It sounds like the kind of opening you would hear on a late '80s/early '90s cartoon. :D

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