Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

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Gyt Kaliba
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Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:11 pm

There's so much discourse in the Dragon Ball fandom nowadays. Not only do we, to a lesser degree, still have the age old battle of dub versus sub, there's no fighting over whether Super is a worthy continuation of the franchise, or if it's better/worse than GT; there's debates on whether the direction the video games are going is the right one; I don't want to touch this one too directly here, but there's even discourse over the actions of various voice actors involved with the franchise.

Remember the old days though? Back before we had all of that to worry about in our fandom? Let's take a step back exactly, oh let's say, 10 years ago, and see what our biggest problem as Dragon Ball fans was the-

Image
Dragon Ball Evolution: Official Trailer

...Oh. Oh no. Oh no no no.

As hard as it might be to believe though, this film is indeed 10 years old today (it reached that mark last month if we go by the Japanese release date, but since it was a US made film, I was waiting until specifically today to make this thread). This movie came out at a much different time in the fandom than where we are now, when we weren't getting a continuing new story from the franchise. Even the video games were basically just giving us the same old story time and again. But this, this was new. This was a 'new take' on our beloved franchise, and a major US live-action Hollywood film was something that fans had been clamoring for for a long time now! Surely Hollywood wouldn't let us down, would they?

...I feel like it bears mentioning that 2009 is also the year that gave us X-Men Origins: Wolverine and Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li. It was an interesting year in film history.

So with all that set up, I for one feel like the movie, god-awful as I know it is and will always be, is at least worth another look on it's 10th birthday. So without any further ado...let's re-watch this thing. And I swear to Kami, I hope I'm not the only one masochistic enough to do this today.

Thoughts on 'Dragon Ball Evolution'
And that was...Dragon Ball Evolution. After all this time, I can't say that my feelings outright have changed. It is still a terrible, terrible movie, that doesn't evoke anywhere near the same feeling of Dragon Ball that literally every other version of the series at least holds onto in some form. Hell, at it's worst, I'd even argue that DBZ Season 3 still felt more like Dragon Ball than this, and we all know that's a pretty low bar to hold out for.

But, the movie doesn't really fill me with the same sort of 'nerd rage' that it used to. I mean, yeah, I ranted and raved a lot in the above part of the post while watching it, but when it's right in front of you, it's hard not to have some feelings toward it (and I would hope that a lot of that is clearly taken at least partially in jest - I'm the one that chose to subject myself to re-watching this, after all). But now that it's over, it can go back on the shelf, and I probably won't really think much of it again for another whole decade, if I even do then.

The whole point of this re-watch to me was to remind myself (and hopefully others, if anyone else deems to rewatch this clearly educational film with me) that, no matter how bad you might feel about the 'current state of Dragon Ball', there was a time when it was actually far, far worse, but even that eventually passes. The things you love about the original Dragon Ball are always going to still be there, no matter what other 'crap' is made. And that's something to be happy for.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to cleanse my mind of this film again somehow. Perhaps a nice lava bath, the Fulum seemed to be enjoying it and how it got them out of the movie for good.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:27 pm

No doubt it's definitely a straight up bad adaptation of the series, i put it into the same boat as the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender movie that came out just over a year later. They're both similar in the fact that they are adaptations of popular animated properties made by people who have little to no understanding of the source material, while Last Airbender at least tried to be somewhat similar to the series. DB Evolution barely resembles the manga/anime at all, in fact if it didn't have the name Dragon Ball or the little references or character's names here and there it would just be another generic, forgettable late 2000's action film that nobody would remember.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:17 pm

I'm one of the few that found it watchable but it was due to the Japanese dub. DBE for its flaws gave us an opportunity to hear Goku voiced by a different VA than Masako Nozawa and I liked the Japanese VAs for the roles.

DBE's Goku and Bulma actors/actresses kind of made a crossover with Shameless since these two actors were part of the Shameless series and they had a love-hate relationship. This, in a way kinda open the possibility for a Goku + Bulma couple which I would have preferred than the official Goku + Chichi.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:24 pm

This film... Jesus fucking Christ, Chatwin was goddamn awful in this. I rewatched the Nostalgia Critic review of Dragon Ball Evolution, and man, were his line deliveries really forced. Alita might be a good film, but even if it is, that doesn't make me more optimistic for more good live-action anime adaptations, let alone a good Dragon Ball live-action film.

Also, whenever I think about this film, I think of that one time where a bunch of French Dragon Ball fans made a "funeral" for Goku because the film was a piece of crap.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Craptastic movie, but hey it got Toriyama back on board with writing Dragon Ball again so it did something right at the very least.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:27 pm Craptastic movie, but hey it got Toriyama back on board with writing Dragon Ball again so it did something right at the very least.
Crap! I had that in mind to point out before I even started watching the movie, and I completely forgot to include it at the end there. I am furious with myself right now. :o

But yeah, it's a weird thing to realize, but for those of us that do enjoy Super, or even just Battle of Gods, we owe they're very existence to this stain of a film. It's funny how the world works sometimes.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:27 pm Craptastic movie, but hey it got Toriyama back on board with writing Dragon Ball again so it did something right at the very least.
Crap! I had that in mind to point out before I even started watching the movie, and I completely forgot to include it at the end there. I am furious with myself right now. :o

But yeah, it's a weird thing to realize, but for those of us that do enjoy Super, or even just Battle of Gods, we owe they're very existence to this stain of a film. It's funny how the world works sometimes.
I thought Chow Yun Fat wasn't too bad as Master Roshi considering he had done pretty good in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but yeah some of the others like Justin Chatwin as Goku were just horrible with completely missing the point of the characters and their particular personalities from the original source series.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:18 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:17 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:27 pm Craptastic movie, but hey it got Toriyama back on board with writing Dragon Ball again so it did something right at the very least.
Crap! I had that in mind to point out before I even started watching the movie, and I completely forgot to include it at the end there. I am furious with myself right now. :o

But yeah, it's a weird thing to realize, but for those of us that do enjoy Super, or even just Battle of Gods, we owe they're very existence to this stain of a film. It's funny how the world works sometimes.
I thought Chow Yun Fat wasn't too bad as Master Roshi considering he had done pretty good in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but yeah some of the others like Justin Chatwin as Goku were just horrible with completely missing the point of the characters and their particular personalities from the original source series.
They tried to "Americanize" it and it failed horribly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:18 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:17 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Crap! I had that in mind to point out before I even started watching the movie, and I completely forgot to include it at the end there. I am furious with myself right now. :o

But yeah, it's a weird thing to realize, but for those of us that do enjoy Super, or even just Battle of Gods, we owe they're very existence to this stain of a film. It's funny how the world works sometimes.
I thought Chow Yun Fat wasn't too bad as Master Roshi considering he had done pretty good in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but yeah some of the others like Justin Chatwin as Goku were just horrible with completely missing the point of the characters and their particular personalities from the original source series.
They tried to "Americanize" it and it failed horribly.
Yes, it didn't feel like Dragon Ball at all in fact as i said in my above post if it didn't have the characters names or the series name in the title it would be another bland, forgettable 2000's action film that nobody would even remember ever happened.

Oh wait a minute, that's kinda what actually happened because it's faded into near total obscurity. :lol:
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Grimlock » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:51 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:11 pmthere's debates on whether the direction the video games are going is the right one;
It really concerns me if there are indeed debates on that. Are people really stuck in some kind of bubble and enjoy the same thing over and over instead of, you know, expanding lore as well as bringing and exploring other ideas?
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:02 pm

Haven't (and probably will never) see this film, but the idea of aging up Goku makes sense to avoid any child actor woes for such a role. Putting him in high school... not so much.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by funrush » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Maybe I've been spoiled by the past decade of fantastic & generally faithful comic book adaptations (ex. the Marvel films), but it's kind of amazing to me that this film got greenlit at all. Not only is it pretty awful, but it bears very little resemblance to the source material, both in plot and in tone. I'm obviously biased as a Dragon Ball fan, but whenever I look at this movie I'm just like goddamn how does this exist.

I guess it all works out, since this movie is the reason Battle of Gods and Dragon Ball Super are things that exist. So thank you Dragon Ball Evolution!

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:21 pm

funrush wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:07 pm Maybe I've been spoiled by the past decade of fantastic & generally faithful comic book adaptations (ex. the Marvel films), but it's kind of amazing to me that this film got greenlit at all. Not only is it pretty awful, but it bears very little resemblance to the source material, both in plot and in tone. I'm obviously biased as a Dragon Ball fan, but whenever I look at this movie I'm just like goddamn how does this exist.

I guess it all works out, since this movie is the reason Battle of Gods and Dragon Ball Super are things that exist. So thank you Dragon Ball Evolution!
The reason was rights. 20th Century Fox had the rights to make a live-action Dragon Ball movie, but with those rights comes a requirement to actually DO something with it so that you're not just squatting on it forever, which often means a company will rush SOME work using those rights by any means nessecary, purely so that they can keep those rights. In the comics business, this is what's known as an Ashcan Copy. Some examples from that link include Wonder Man, Captain Marvel (no, not Shazam), the 1966 adaptation of The Hobbit, both the 1994 and 2015 Fantastic Four movies, The Bourne Legacy, the TV pilot Black Bard for Blazing Saddles, the Broadway premiere of Pirates of Penzance, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5, and yes, Dragon Ball Evolution.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:12 pm

I always thought this movie was a wasted opportunity. A wasted cast, that would otherwise be capable in the hands of other screenwriters/directors. A wasted opportunity to build a new Dragon Ball mythology on screen.

I think its biggest problem is its rushed script and production. I believe that they had some good ideas but totally failed in the execution, and may have even been successful with just a decent amount of effort behind it.


What I remember liking about this film:

San Diego Jamie as Chichi. Chow Yun Fat as Roshi.

The original Chinese/Japanese names and concepts that they retained.

The score.

The Gohan/Goku scenes surrounding his death, and Goku's subsequent relationship with Roshi.

Goku's arc.

What I didn't like:

Just about everything else. The tone was too disjointed. The high school setting was silly. The re-imagined mythology was too convoluted. The writing was terrible. Just a mess.

Another scene I actually enjoy unironically - 'I have tried every possible spelling of Roshi in the director.' 'Did you try master?' '...' 'M-A-S-', all while Goku's eating a Turkey leg. Like, it's delivered in the sarcastic manner Chatku has rather than how Goku would say it, but I could totally see Goku making that suggestion in any other version.
I remember liking this scene because it actually felt like Goku/Bulma out the manga/anime.
'I am Goku. I am Ozaru. To be at one with myself I must be two.' ...What?
I actually thought this was one of the only moments in the film that really worked, this dialogue from Gohan that carried over into Goku's arc throughout the film. And it's a nice Yin/Yang duality allusion.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by sintzu » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:05 am

funrush wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:07 pmMaybe I've been spoiled by the past decade of fantastic & generally faithful comic book adaptations (ex. the Marvel films), but it's kind of amazing to me that this film got greenlit at all.
The movie only had a 30 million $ budget so it had more to do with throwing anything at the wall to see what stuck rather than it being a project they believed in.

Marvel has proven with movies such as Infinity war and Black Panther that no concept is beyond bringing to the big screen, it just needs a studio willing to spend the necessary money on it and a filmmaker who has a vision to make it happen.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by KBABZ » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am

sintzu wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:05 am The movie only had a 30 million $ budget so it had more to do with throwing anything at the wall to see what stuck rather than it being a project they believed in.
And it was an Ashcan Copy, as I said earlier.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:22 pm

I haven't seen it in the last 9 or 10 years. I saw it when it came out and no one else was in the movie theater besides me and my youngest sister along with three other people. It's a bad movie, but hardly the worst movie ever made. I do think you can watch it for a bad movie night with friends as a double bill with Double Dragon or the 1994 Street Fighter movie.

I don't think anyone was surprised that this movie was going to be bad. Everyone was hating on the movie before it came out and it bombed because of bad word of mouth. This movie was doom from the start when James Wong was announced as the director. When the first Final Destination movie is the only decent movie that you have done, you know that your movie is going to be shit.

While DBE may be a bad movie, it does have a diverse cast of actors with most of them being Asian. I get why people would be upset that Goku would be white seeing how he is a gag version of Sun Wukong. Piccolo is an alien, so anyone can play as him. I also feel like Bluma is someone who can be played by anyone as well. Not to mention, the music score is not that bad.

The movie is mediocre at best, so a 5/10 is a good score for it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by KBABZ » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:41 am

Did anyway watch when CinemaSins took on this movie? To this day it's the ONLY time they actually went and did a "ways this isn't accurate to the source material" segment, which they NEVER do!

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:01 am

Only two good things came from Dragon Ball Evolution:

1. It motivated Toriyama to write more Dragon Ball stories and and be more involved in the creative process of Dragon Ball projects.

2. It led to James Marsters becoming a fan of the series. And in the process, becoming the best English VA to ever grace Dragon Ball.

Apart from that, there are ZERO redeeming points. It's a bad martial arts movie and even worse "Dragon Ball" film. Honestly, I wouldn't even call it a "Dragon Ball" film. It's a "Dragon Ball" film in name only.
KBABZ wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:41 am Did anyway watch when CinemaSins took on this movie? To this day it's the ONLY time they actually went and did a "ways this isn't accurate to the source material" segment, which they NEVER do!
Yeah, I remember that. Apparently, Dragon Ball Evolution was the most requested film for CinemaSins cover, so they went out their way to do research and find more sins based on how much the film deviates from the source material. (It was a lot)

Another funny thing about that is that during that episode were they covered DBE, Jeremy (the creator of CinemaSins), stated that even though he had zero knowledge of Dragon Ball, even he had a strong feeling that the film was taking major liberties with the original material it was based on. How fucked up is that? A person who knows nothing about Dragon Ball can tell by watching this film how much it's fucking up Dragon Ball. Let that sink in.

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Re: Dragon Ball Evolution: A 10th Anniversary Retrospective

Post by KBABZ » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:07 am

Lord Beerus wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:01 am 2. It led to James Marsters becoming a fan of the series. And in the process, becoming the best English VA to ever grace Dragon Ball.
Elaborate??

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