Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

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MainJPW
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by MainJPW » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:51 am

10gigtriforce wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:14 am
I doubt it, aside from them being co-students at the crain dojo and becoming best bros there, chiaotzu looks way too much like a kid. Like i get hes old technically, and based off of those weird doll things but he looks 11.
When people say he looks like a doll I assume they're referring to Kokeshi; the traditional Japanese dolls.

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Chaozu, in actuality, is inspired by the Jiangshi (Chinese zombie or vampire); a resurrected human. They're usually depicted with pale white, green or blue skin and wearing Hanfu clothing (Ancient Chinese clothing; think the Qing Dynasty.)

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They also may or may not have the polka dots on their face or the talisman on their Qing Guanmao (the circular traditional Chinese hat with the ball on top, Gohan and Empreror Pilaf also wear one). For the fighting game fans there's Hsien-Ko from Dark Stalkers.

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Around the time Chaozu debuted there was a Jiangshi movie craze in East Asia, namely Mr. Vampire (1985-86):

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So when you see Chaozu stick out his hands to activate his Paralysis ability it's actually a homage to the trademark Jiangshi stance:

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It's also the reason why he constantly floats above the ground instead of standing 99% of the time since Jiangshi tend to levitate.

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If you take his design at face value you could infer that he was resurrected at some point in his youth which would explain why he never ages even by the time of GT, it would also explain his childish behavior. With those plausibility's in mind I can't help but wonder about his and Tenshinhan's backstory and how they met. I can't see them as anything more than having a brotherly bond since it's actually pretty damn possible (considering how many mythical elements already exist in the Dragon World and given how on the nose his design is) that he's technically still a kid that just physically can't age.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Mike XL » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:09 pm

Tenshinhan is probably asexual and he and Chaozu seem to have a very close older brother/younger brother type relationship.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:52 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:06 pm
Moe has existed in the Japanese animation and comics scene since the 1970s. Women and men were writing and drawing comics about cute girls before most of us on this form were even born.

Shit, moe is older than Dragon Ball.
Well, I would like to correct your biased history a little. When talking about moe as in it's meaning in the otaku comunity, yes, it existed even before Dragon Ball... But, it was a phenomenonen that wasn't exploited in mainstream manga and anime (and outside of Otaku targeted series and genre it still isn't in kids shows) mostly until 90's.
You can list shojo manga as Sailor Moon or Yurusei Yatsura as MOE, but those series were mostly done with young girls in mind, having male audience was a byproduct and some of the fans could be called as moe. Same as Saint Seiya having been popular with female audience because of Shun and Misty.
I know that Otakus like to interpret Japanese culture as being intertwinned in anime, but that is just the western look on it,
as anime isn't actually that different to western pop culture and how it is perceived in general.
I don't have anything about people liking certain things, I just don't like when things and history are interpreted wrong.

Btw. you might enjoy this book :)
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:57 pm

MainJPW wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:51 am
10gigtriforce wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:14 am
I doubt it, aside from them being co-students at the crain dojo and becoming best bros there, chiaotzu looks way too much like a kid. Like i get hes old technically, and based off of those weird doll things but he looks 11.
Chaozu, in actuality, is inspired by the Jiangshi (Chinese zombie or vampire); a resurrected human. They're usually depicted with pale white, green or blue skin and wearing Hanfu clothing (Ancient Chinese clothing; think the Qing Dynasty.)
Oh man, thanks! This is awesome. I think I remembered this being already mentioned somewhere, maybe in the thread about Dragon Ball and it's roots in mythology and Kung Fu movies on this very forum (really awesome thread!).
Chiaotzu's inspiration (even the name is simmilar tough a pun) is no wonder, as we know that Toriyama was a fan of Kung Fu movies, Drunken Master in particular.
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JulieYBM
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:24 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:52 pm
Well, I would like to correct your biased history a little. When talking about moe as in it's meaning in the otaku comunity, yes, it existed even before Dragon Ball... But, it was a phenomenonen that wasn't exploited in mainstream manga and anime (and outside of Otaku targeted series and genre it still isn't in kids shows) mostly until 90's.
Moe comes from describing the feeling of bishoujo characters that Otaku felt. Therefore, the bishoujo characters of the 1970s and 1980s, which became increasingly adopted during those periods, also counts as 'moe'. An executive might not have been aware of the meaning of bishoujo characters in animated projects at the time but those works were still nevertheless being made by Otaku themselves both for children and themselves.
MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:52 pm
You can list shojo manga as Sailor Moon or Yurusei Yatsura as MOE, but those series were mostly done with young girls in mind, having male audience was a byproduct and some of the fans could be called as moe. Same as Saint Seiya having been popular with female audience because of Shun and Misty.
I know that Otakus like to interpret Japanese culture as being intertwinned in anime, but that is just the western look on it,
as anime isn't actually that different to western pop culture and how it is perceived in general.
I don't have anything about people liking certain things, I just don't like when things and history are interpreted wrong.
The Sailor Moon and Urusei Yatsura animated series are created by men and women with their own ideas separate from the works of Take'uchi Naoko and Takahashi Rumiko. Their influences are not negated simply because the animated work is based off a comic by a single person.

I'm not talking about general Japanese culture at all. I'm talking about the subculture of the Japanese animation and comics industries. Those industries have specific elements to them that were in part borne of economic, geographical and social issues at the time. Mens' frustration with comics aimed at them led to them consuming girls' comics and pop culture, which led to them creating their own comics in the same mold, creating the first wave of what we call 'bishoujo comics/characters' in the late 1970s and 1980s.
MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:52 pm
Btw. you might enjoy this book :)
I bought Otaku and the Struggle for Imagination in Japan when it came out. Like Galbraith's other books, it's where I've gotten a lot of my historical knowledge about moe and bishoujo characters.
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