Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Big Boss » Thu May 09, 2019 9:47 am

No. Toriyama, by his own admission, has never been proficient in writing romance, which is why if it DOES appear, it's kept to a bare minimum. Off the top of my head, the only romantic-esque dialogue that I can think of is when Goku proposed to Chi-Chi, but that's honestly pushing it (actually...I think this was simply Funimation's nonsense that made it more romantic than it really was, haven't watched OG DB in Japanese in a long time). Besides, I don't think Japan's views on same-sex romance in the 1980s were at a point where this could be seen as culturally acceptable. And given that gays were frequently at the receiving end of jokes during the series, yeah I don't think there's any weight to this at all.

This is also foregoing the all important fact Dragon Ball is simply a dumb martial arts franchise for children.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Jord » Thu May 09, 2019 10:36 am

Come to think of it, if Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were a couple it would feel even more creepy since I always get the impression that Chiaotzu is a child. (Even though he probably an adult)

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Bullza » Thu May 09, 2019 1:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 8:55 amCare to continue that sentence? Or do you just want to throw LGBTQIA+ folks under the
I don't know what you're rambling about or even what those letters stand for. It's like you just mashed the keyboard.

Tien is just a ordinary secondary character of no real importance. Dragon Ball is a martial arts cartoon for kids, he doesn't need to be any thing or a pans (whatever that is) to give exposure to anything. That kind of nonsense is what's putting people off TV shows like Supergirl.

Any other relationship with the childlike Chiaotzu outside of being a friend and training partner would be very disturbed.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by ruler9871 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:36 pm

Big Boss wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:47 am No. Toriyama, by his own admission, has never been proficient in writing romance, which is why if it DOES appear, it's kept to a bare minimum. Off the top of my head, the only romantic-esque dialogue that I can think of is when Goku proposed to Chi-Chi, but that's honestly pushing it (actually...I think this was simply Funimation's nonsense that made it more romantic than it really was, haven't watched OG DB in Japanese in a long time). Besides, I don't think Japan's views on same-sex romance in the 1980s were at a point where this could be seen as culturally acceptable. And given that gays were frequently at the receiving end of jokes during the series, yeah I don't think there's any weight to this at all.

This is also foregoing the all important fact Dragon Ball is simply a dumb martial arts franchise for children.
You are ignoring the fact that since the 70s, LGBT characters have actually been somewhat common in anime/manga, especially Shojo & even Shonen series.

Japan has never been like the West when it comes to this stuff.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Big Boss » Thu May 09, 2019 1:50 pm

ruler9871 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:36 pm
Big Boss wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:47 am No. Toriyama, by his own admission, has never been proficient in writing romance, which is why if it DOES appear, it's kept to a bare minimum. Off the top of my head, the only romantic-esque dialogue that I can think of is when Goku proposed to Chi-Chi, but that's honestly pushing it (actually...I think this was simply Funimation's nonsense that made it more romantic than it really was, haven't watched OG DB in Japanese in a long time). Besides, I don't think Japan's views on same-sex romance in the 1980s were at a point where this could be seen as culturally acceptable. And given that gays were frequently at the receiving end of jokes during the series, yeah I don't think there's any weight to this at all.

This is also foregoing the all important fact Dragon Ball is simply a dumb martial arts franchise for children.
You are ignoring the fact that since the 70s, LGBT characters have actually been somewhat common in anime/manga, especially Shojo & even Shonen series.

Japan has never been like the West when it comes to this stuff.
Not ignoring. I'm just not an expert on the subject. I'm sure there were some LGBT relationships in anime/manga at the time, but in a series such as Dragon Ball it would possibly feel out of place given the content/style of writing in the manga that preceded the introduction of Tenshinshan and Chiaotzu. Not because it's specifically an LGBT relationship, but more the fact that romance hadn't had any role in the series prior and Toriyama stating that he avoids it.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Thu May 09, 2019 3:42 pm

I am so confused as to what's going on with these kinds of topics.

I miss the simple and innocent times when Tenshinhan was viewed as a character with strict disciplines as he went down a path to heightening/improving himself through martial arts. And Chaozu was his vertically-challenged 'little brother' that he looked out for that tagged along most of the time.

The story is the story, a wuxia/fantasy/scifi/adventure (aimed primarily at young *Japanese* boys). And the characters are the characters, most of which are also on a path to heighten/improve self through various martial arts or other disciplines. People looking for more 'exposure' just need to accept that DB doesn't go there, as much as some of the 'fan arts' and 'fan fictions' desperately want it to.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by PremiumSalt » Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pm

Bullza wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:20 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 8:55 amCare to continue that sentence? Or do you just want to throw LGBTQIA+ folks under the
I don't know what you're rambling about or even what those letters stand for. It's like you just mashed the keyboard.

Tien is just a ordinary secondary character of no real importance. Dragon Ball is a martial arts cartoon for kids, he doesn't need to be any thing or a pans (whatever that is) to give exposure to anything. That kind of nonsense is what's putting people off TV shows like Supergirl.

Any other relationship with the childlike Chiaotzu outside of being a friend and training partner would be very disturbed.
You are either living under a rock or lying. There is not a single human being in 2019 who hasn't been exposed to some form of the phrase "LGBT". And yeah, care to explain what would be wrong with a character in a kid's show being LGBT?
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu May 09, 2019 5:06 pm

Bullza wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:20 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 8:55 amCare to continue that sentence? Or do you just want to throw LGBTQIA+ folks under the
I don't know what you're rambling about or even what those letters stand for. It's like you just mashed the keyboard.

Tien is just a ordinary secondary character of no real importance. Dragon Ball is a martial arts cartoon for kids, he doesn't need to be any thing or a pans (whatever that is) to give exposure to anything. That kind of nonsense is what's putting people off TV shows like Supergirl.

Any other relationship with the childlike Chiaotzu outside of being a friend and training partner would be very disturbed.
Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex and asexual. All people who exist and put their bottoms on one leg at a time.

Also, wow, thanks for calling inclusion 'nonsense'. Love being demeaned by someone old enough to use a computer but not old enough to respect marginalized minorities who share the same love for foreign children's cartoons. Nothing makes a girl swoon more.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by ABED » Thu May 09, 2019 5:22 pm

Is that really what's putting people off Supergirl? It seems to me that it's just as likely to get people into Supergirl. This is the kind of thinking is what lead to the nonsense surrounding Captain Marvel.

DB doesn't do romance well and it portrays homosexuals even worse. I'd like it to add an important female character beside Bulma before I'd trust it to tackle same sex relationships.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Bullza » Thu May 09, 2019 5:44 pm

PremiumSalt wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pmYou are either living under a rock or lying.
I know the LGBT part but nowadays more and more things get tacked on to the end of it that it's become almost a parody.
And yeah, care to explain what would be wrong with a character in a kid's show being LGBT?
Because it serves absolutely no purpose. Thankfully this isn't that kind of series and any relationships that are formed are usually only done so for the purpose of creating a new character in the form of a child like Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Pan etc for story purposes.
ABED wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 5:22 pm Is that really what's putting people off Supergirl?
Yes it is in spades. The show has become so obsessed with becoming "woke" (don't really know what that means either) and pandering to SJW's that it's putting people off from watching the show because it's all they are focused on now.

Again thankfully, that is something that anime in general doesn't do and hopefully never will because it will do it more harm than good.

This show has been popular for decades, they've got it good and people are happy enough with it. The last thing they need to do is start shoehorning in a pansexual Tien, a asexual Jiren and a intersex Hit (again what even are these things?) into a kids cartoon about fighting aliens because it will kill the show in no time flat.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by ABED » Thu May 09, 2019 5:54 pm

The Superhero genre has always been "pandering to SJW's". X-Men is a giant parable about the injustice of racism, and even Iron Man in the MCU decides to stop making weapons in the second act of the first movie! Superman's first villains were evil businessmen, corrupt politicians, and violent husbands. To imply that this is remotely new is asinine. The problem isn't being socially conscious as such, it's execution.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by SaiyamanMS » Thu May 09, 2019 6:07 pm

Bullza wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 5:44 pm The last thing they need to do is start shoehorning in a pansexual Tien, a asexual Jiren and a intersex Hit (again what even are these things?) into a kids cartoon about fighting aliens because it will kill the show in no time flat.
Pansexual: Attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: Doesn’t experience sexual attraction of any kind. (Though often still capable of love/romance.)
Intersex: Born with a genetic condition that means you are neither fully male or female.

It’s pretty simple shit.

As I believe I said earlier in the thread, the way Toriyama writes Tenshinhan seems to generally imply he’s asexual. He never shows any romantic or sexual attraction to anyone. The closest relationship he has with anyone is with Chaozu, which can generally be interpreted as platonic, but it wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest there’s more there, making him gay.

People who aren’t heterosexual exist. They are just as normal as people who are heterosexual. (Same goes for transgender people being normal people as much as cisgender people.)

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by PremiumSalt » Thu May 09, 2019 6:17 pm

Bullza wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 5:44 pm
PremiumSalt wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pmYou are either living under a rock or lying.
I know the LGBT part but nowadays more and more things get tacked on to the end of it that it's become almost a parody.
And yeah, care to explain what would be wrong with a character in a kid's show being LGBT?
Because it serves absolutely no purpose. Thankfully this isn't that kind of series and any relationships that are formed are usually only done so for the purpose of creating a new character in the form of a child like Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Pan etc for story purposes.
I mean, the Gohan/Videl thing existed for a whole 2 years before they had a kid, and said kid initially only existed for the epilogue and no bearing on the plot... not to mention the Bulma/Yamcha relationship, they never had a kid... I assume you take issue with those relationships too, right? Or is it just the LGBT ones you think "serve no purpose"?
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Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Bullza » Thu May 09, 2019 7:41 pm

SaiyamanMS wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:07 pmPansexual: Attracted to people regardless of gender.
So Bisexual.
As I believe I said earlier in the thread, the way Toriyama writes Tenshinhan seems to generally imply he’s asexual.
Why? Just because he hasn't shown an attraction to anyone? Goku doesn't have an attraction to anyone, he's married because he was forced into it. Who has Yajirobe ever been attracted to?
PremiumSalt wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:17 pmI mean, the Gohan/Videl thing existed for a whole 2 years before they had a kid, and said kid initially only existed for the epilogue and no bearing on the plot.
And that's all it was, a "thing". There was no relationship involved. There was an odd comment here and there. Videl mentioned that if Gohan came back alive they'd go on a date but this never happened and the relationship was never shown.

There was a hint at something, fast forward, they've got a kid. Same thing with Krillin and Android 18.
not to mention the Bulma/Yamcha relationship, they never had a kid... Or is it just the LGBT ones you think "serve no purpose"?
The Yamcha and Bulma relationship did serve no purpose. They got together at the end of the Pilaf Saga and then they were broken up by their next appearance. It was almost hardly ever referred to again as the characters spent the vast majority of time a part anyway.

Toriyama does not care about this kind of thing, he's admitted to not being good at it.

The series doesn't even have any black characters. There's Staff Officer Black and I don't know if Uub counts as Black or Indian but otherwise you don't even have a diverse race of
characters nevermind having all these pot and pan sexuals characters that nobody wants.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu May 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Bullza wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 5:44 pma asexual Jiren
TBH he comes off as pretty asexual already.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu May 09, 2019 7:58 pm

Not to mention many of the characters like Jiren and Hit are aliens - we have no idea how their species reproduce. They could be like Freezaand give birth asexually. I think it's kind of silly to insist that extraterrestrials must have the same kind of sexual biology as humans. Even Toriyama himself has realized this ever since King Piccolo first appeared, and he reproduced by laying eggs.

Hit's species could be all male, or have no genders whatsoever, for all we know.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu May 09, 2019 7:59 pm

Pansexual is not bisexual. I'm pansexual because when I am attracted to men or non-binary people it has nothing to do with their gender. Bisexuals experience their love for the same or one of the other genders as an actual attraction because of their gender.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu May 09, 2019 8:10 pm

Really, your example of 'asexual Jiren' as something that would be unnecessary and make no sense really comes off as silly.

Given what we know so far about Jiren's personality, which of these options seems to fit his character better?

A. He's completely uninterested in sex, he only cares about fighting and getting stronger.

B. He's actually a playboy who's always flirting and trying to hook up with girls.
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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Bullza » Thu May 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 7:47 pmTBH he comes off as pretty asexual already.
So did Android 17 and Vegeta until out of the blue they had a wife and child.
JulieYBM wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 7:59 pm Pansexual is not bisexual. I'm pansexual because when I am attracted to men or non-binary people it has nothing to do with their gender.
Again no idea what you're talking about. You could be throwing random words at me for all I know. What the hell is a non binary person? Isn't binary supposed to have something to do with math?

The other guy said it's an attraction regardless of gender. There's only two genders, male and female and bisexuals are attracted to both....

Either way it's not important, we're going off track.

Tien doesn't need to be given any kind of bizarre sexual preference. He doesn't need to be given any kind of sexual preference in the first place. Dragon Ball isn't some teen social drama. It's an action cartoon where people batter each other and it's worked wonders for it for 30+ years.

Nobody cares who Tien is or isn't attracted to. What people would actually want is for him to be powered up so he could serve a purpose towards the show.

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Re: Are Tien and Chiaotzu a romantic couple?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:50 pm

Bullza seems like something come up out of a cartoon.
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