What's your most convincing comparison for why grain is important to detail?

[sumpter360]

Preface: I showed my girlfriend this http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJ1MNNNU and asked her which looks better and she said the Blu-ray Season Set! (Guess we gotta break up now ) She cited not liking the grain of other releases and she likes the bright colors, crisp visuals etc.

So my question to you all is this: What is your "go-to" comparison screenshot for convincing someone that grain is inherent to detail? It doesn't have to be from Dragon Ball, but it certainly could be! Feel free to show the comparisons below

[jjgp1112]

I think what's tricky is that the grain on its own isn't important and so most people will see it as a drawback...it's getting people to understand that you can't get rid of the grain without compromising the rest of the image too.

It's in-GRAIN-ed in the film

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Simple, if you remove the grain as FUNimaton did with their DNR process on the Orange Bricks/Season BDs you are actually removing detail from the picture itself.

That's why you get shots like this

[eledoremassis02]

Simple, if you remove the grain as FUNimaton did with their DNR process on the Orange Bricks/Season BDs you are actually removing detail from the picture itself.

That's why you get shots like this

I hate how the obsessive dnr is an industry standard... I do think to think iy can be good tho because the level sets did use some DNR. The 30th set is not as DNRd as the season blurays but I feel (and have emailed them) that they could use a little less DNR if they insist on using it

[TheOverlyMadHatter]

I recall the Star Wars Blu-ray for episode II overdoing it, to the point where the actors' skin looked bleached and almost like plastic in some of the lighter scenes. I'll try and find a screencap.

[Robo4900]

Best explanation is this image.

[ABED]

I'm not seeing much of difference in the two pictures of Dutch.

[Forte224]

I'm not seeing much of difference in the two pictures of Dutch.

I definitely see it. For the most obvious difference, open in full resolution and look at his left side of his face where the light is shining on it, or his forehead. In general, the left image makes him look like a wax sculpture or something.

[ABED]

I'm not seeing much of difference in the two pictures of Dutch.

I definitely see it. For the most obvious difference, open in full resolution and look at his left side of his face where the light is shining on it, or his forehead. In general, the left image makes him look like a wax sculpture or something.

What do I open in full resolution? How?

[KBABZ]

I'm not seeing much of difference in the two pictures of Dutch.

I definitely see it. For the most obvious difference, open in full resolution and look at his left side of his face where the light is shining on it, or his forehead. In general, the left image makes him look like a wax sculpture or something.

What do I open in full resolution? How?

We means to right-click on the image and go View Image.

Right click means clicking the right-hand button on your mouse. -runs away-

[Forte224]

I'm not seeing much of difference in the two pictures of Dutch.

I definitely see it. For the most obvious difference, open in full resolution and look at his left side of his face where the light is shining on it, or his forehead. In general, the left image makes him look like a wax sculpture or something.

What do I open in full resolution? How?

Open the picture comparison of Dutch in full resolution. Right click>Open image in new tab.

[JohnnyCashKami]

I'm kind of tired of going through this again so I'll let the screenshots do the talk.

30th Anniversary Blu-rays

Spoiler:

Season Blu-rays

Spoiler:

FUNimation RAW

Spoiler:

Dragon Box

Spoiler:

To me, there isn't much of a difference in PQ between the 30th and the Season Blu-rays thus I just call 'em "Season Sets in 4:3 AR'. I'd personally rather take Dragon Box (Japanese than the Spanish or the American but the PQ diff is negligible) and Dragon Ball Kai than the shitty new HD remaster by FUNimation.

FUNimation has a thing for turning Dragon Ball Z into a hellhole of DNR and a water paint mess.

This comparison done by FUNimation themselves shows that it's kind of an improvement but not really a huge one:

Spoiler:

Anyway, YouTube-DL is the best way to download YouTube (and from other streaming services) videos so comparisons can be done with as little compression as possible. However, there will always be because YouTube compresses and image hosting compress as well. For a truly 1:1 screenshot comparison you'd want to provide the lossless PNG files for download but that's not very convenient.

[ABED]

I definitely see it. For the most obvious difference, open in full resolution and look at his left side of his face where the light is shining on it, or his forehead. In general, the left image makes him look like a wax sculpture or something.

What do I open in full resolution? How?

Open the picture comparison of Dutch in full resolution. Right click>Open image in new tab.

I know what right clicking is. There's no option to do what you guys are talking about. I looked at the right click options and there's no option to open image in new tab. I got that you wanted me to open the image, but I don't see how.

KBABZ, I'd appreciate it if you don't talk to me like I'm 10.

[Forte224]

What do I open in full resolution? How?

Open the picture comparison of Dutch in full resolution. Right click>Open image in new tab.

I know what right clicking is. There's no option to do what you guys are talking about. I looked at the right click options and there's no option to open image in new tab.

KBAZ, I'd like it if you don't talk to me like I'm 10, m'kay.

I know you know what right clicking is. I'm letting you know how to access the Open image in new tab option. It was only KBABZ who assumed that.

Anyway, I don't know what the issue is. Maybe it's your browser. If you use Chrome, you'll have the option.

[ABED]

Open the picture comparison of Dutch in full resolution. Right click>Open image in new tab.

I know what right clicking is. There's no option to do what you guys are talking about. I looked at the right click options and there's no option to open image in new tab.

KBAZ, I'd like it if you don't talk to me like I'm 10, m'kay.

I know you know what right clicking is. I'm letting you know how to access the Open image in new tab option. It was only KBABZ who assumed that.

Anyway, I don't know what the issue is. Maybe it's your browser. If you use Chrome, you'll have the option.

It worked in chrome, but the image is exactly the same, just in a different tab. I'm not seeing much of a difference in the two images.

[Forte224]

I know what right clicking is. There's no option to do what you guys are talking about. I looked at the right click options and there's no option to open image in new tab.

KBAZ, I'd like it if you don't talk to me like I'm 10, m'kay.

I know you know what right clicking is. I'm letting you know how to access the Open image in new tab option. It was only KBABZ who assumed that.

Anyway, I don't know what the issue is. Maybe it's your browser. If you use Chrome, you'll have the option.

It worked in chrome, but the image is exactly the same, just in a different tab. I'm not seeing much of a difference in the two images.

Really? The difference is pretty clear, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to be snooty or anything here either, I'm just surprised.

[ABED]

I'm seeing small differences at this resolution, but nothing that shows a clear winner between the two. You're probably right, but it reminds me of the Blu-ray commercials on my DVD's. How the hell am I supposed to spot the difference between Blu Ray and DVD in an ad on a DVD?

[HakkaiBills93]

grain are IN the image , to remove grain, it need DNR, DNR use blurry so even if some kind of slight DNR can be very well done (for example by ect5150 in color correction thread or even in some work of other people like enigmo) , denoise can be well done but it allways need to be slight, it should be dynamic noise REDUCTION not DESTRUCTION.
Grain is noise BUT it's taken IN the film, so everything behind the grain will be destroy by reducing it, if you want to keep the natural looking of the film, you have to keep the grain as much as you can
in the robo screenshot, grain is not reduce but destructed, you loose all natural look of the film, it feel unnatural
In dragon ball (as it's animation) people don't understand why it should have at least grain but cels was print on film reels which lead to grain, reducing it aggressively is like drawing on a paper then send water on it.

here an example, watch goku eyes, on the left it's raw film zoom in and on the right season sets with DNR

DNR have destroy some line

something that people don't understand too is why grain are sometimes really bothering, because the footage is zoom in from the film, making grain bigger

[KBABZ]

KBABZ, I'd appreciate it if you don't talk to me like I'm 10.

Sorry. To be fair I didn't catch the He/We typo that made it even worse.

[ABED]

Alright, now I see it. My monitor at work is much better than my laptop.