Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

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MyNiggaGoku
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Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by MyNiggaGoku » Tue May 07, 2019 11:17 am

Now, this thread is not meant to hate on the Buu arc. I just want to state my reasons on why I think ending Dragon Ball at the Cell arc would be the best choice.
Now let us begin.

1.Cell is the perfect final villain


2.Goku’s death/Gohan taking the mantle


3.Character arc closures


4.The last time the Dragon Balls drive the plot
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by Desassina » Tue May 07, 2019 11:47 am

It would have been a bitter sweet ending, and the Majin Boo arc just so happened to be like Bourne Ultimatum after Supremacy, years prior to this movie series. Let me explain: everyone thought that the second movie was a perfect ending, but the third one managed to make it part of a bigger plan, in Dragon Ball's case the need to bring Goku back after the new generation had its turn. It was magnificent! The Genki-dama finally met its end game, Goku seemed to rejuvenate by fighting his equal, while the others did not fall behind significantly. In fact, the Majin Boo arc did not end with the strongest fights, while the Cell arc was pretty much one on one during its games. Back to Jason Bourne: not only could it have ended with Supremacy that nobody would have asked for more, the fact that people did and it was more successful than the last one, proves that there's just no "perfect" ending except a precocious one like Dragon Ball GT's to its series.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by sintzu » Tue May 07, 2019 12:19 pm

Fans make arguments that it should've ended with Namek or even after the 23rd Tenkaichi. The problem with ending it anywhere else besides the Buu arc is it leaves great concepts and plot points behind.

If it ended with the 23rd Tenkaichi we wouldn't have gotten any of the great concepts and characters introduced in Z.

If it ended with Namek we wouldn't have seen Piccolo and Gohan's story develop and come full circle. We also wouldn't have gotten Future Trunks.

If it ended with Cell we wouldn't have seen Vegeta's story conclude. He wouldn't have gotten his rematch with Goku or found peace with who he became and in relation to Goku. We wouldn't have gotten fusion, Ssj3 & , Mystic Gohan & the Genkidama finally working. We wouldn't have seen Mr. Satan go through a character arc.

I could understand wanting it end with Cell if the Buu arc was just a waste of time but it wasn't. It was just as meaningful and packed with as much content as any previous arc.

In terms of the perfect villain, I don't think it's Cell or even Freeza but rather Beerus. Unlike Freeza and Cell who eventually fell, Beerus reminded Goku what Roshi told him and Krillin all those years ago, There's always someone stronger. If anything, BOG is where DB should've ended, not Cell or Buu.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 1:27 pm

I don't remember people thinking Supremacy being the perfect ending in large part because there's still much of his identity left unexplained or explored. While the Cell arc is a fitting ending, it still doesn't feel like Vegeta has completed his arc. Quitting fighting because his object of obsession is dead doesn't feel like an ending of his full arc as much as the completion of his arc in that story, but with further to go.

I know people love Goku passing the torch but it's an idea that feels very abrupt in this arc. Also, it's an idea that sounds better in theory than it does in practice.

As inelegant as Goku returning to the limelight was, I'm glad Toriyama did it instead of going with his plan. Goku is and should remain the main character. No one else feels right in that role.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue May 07, 2019 1:46 pm

In the past there were rumors saying Toriyama intended Z to end with the Saiyan arc. Personally, the Freeza arc or Cell arc could've worked perfectly to wrap up the series.

And the Majin Boo arc? A sequel to Z.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by KBABZ » Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pm

I'm in the camp that feels that the Namek arc would have been a thematically appropriate place to end the story for several reasons (it's gone to space, Goku is the strongest known being at the time, his lessons with Roshi come full circle, he avenges the Saiyan genocide, Gohan has unlocked his inner power...).

I will admit I do scratch my head a bit regarding folks that say doing so would have robbed us of other character moments like Gohan/Piccolo and Vegeta, when I've been told in the past "NO, DRAGON BALL IS GOKU'S STORY". :lol:

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by ABED » Tue May 07, 2019 2:20 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pm
I'm in the camp that feels that the Namek arc would have been a thematically appropriate place to end the story for several reasons (it's gone to space, Goku is the strongest known being at the time, his lessons with Roshi come full circle, he avenges the Saiyan genocide, Gohan has unlocked his inner power...).

I will admit I do scratch my head a bit regarding folks that say doing so would have robbed us of other character moments like Gohan/Piccolo and Vegeta, when I've been told in the past "NO, DRAGON BALL IS GOKU'S STORY". :lol:
He's the main character, but that doesn't preclude other characters from playing a role or that leaving their development left incomplete is disappointing. I don't think you understand what I and others mean when we say DB is Goku's story.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by sintzu » Tue May 07, 2019 4:36 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:46 pm
In the past there were rumors saying Toriyama intended Z to end with the Saiyan arc.
When he was asked to give a name for the anime sequel, he picked Z because he thought the story wouldn't go on for much longer. At the time, maybe he did think the Saiyan arc would be a fitting ending as we finally got to see Goku's origins.
KBABZ wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 pm
I will admit I do scratch my head a bit regarding folks that say doing so would have robbed us of other character moments like Gohan/Piccolo and Vegeta, when I've been told in the past "NO, DRAGON BALL IS GOKU'S STORY". :lol:
It is Goku's story but within that story are other stories that wouldn't be completed without the addition of the Cell and Buu arcs. Without the Cell arc we wouldn't have seen Goku become a teacher to Gohan so even the Namek arc would've left Goku's arc incomplete as up tot hat point we always saw him training under someone but never being anyone's trainer.
ABED wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:27 pm
While the Cell arc is a fitting ending, it still doesn't feel like Vegeta has completed his arc. Quitting fighting because his object of obsession is dead doesn't feel like an ending of his full arc as much as the completion of his arc in that story, but with further to go.
It would've been a very anti-climactic way to end his story arc. Ever since the end of the Saiyan arc his main goals were to get a rematch with Goku and surpass him, both of which are only addressed in the Buu arc.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue May 07, 2019 5:57 pm

Vegeta's lack of closure would've bothered me. However if they had set him up afterward with a kick-ass theatrical event, a la Super Broly, that would've been a nice wrap-up.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 07, 2019 6:19 pm

If it ended at Cell we never would have gotten a fat pink bubble gum demon genie turning people into candy. I don’t want to live in that universe

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:54 pm

To be honest, most of the hate the Android/Cell saga gets from the Western fandom is largely overblown and based on contrarianism (since its the most popular saga in the West).

While its storytelling isn't good (still better than the Buu saga's and most of Super & GT's storytelling), as far as character dynamics go its arguably the best in the whole franchise.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by Kokonoe » Mon May 13, 2019 8:55 am

Absolutely agree. Dragon Ball at it's highest in terms of writing and telling a great story with great progression.

Only thing needed to explain is Vegeta, but if it was ending Toriyama could've just wrote a "End of Z" for the events after the Cell saga. Not that hard.

Also in hindsight, Bojack Unbound pretty much solves this anyway.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by coola » Mon May 13, 2019 9:03 am

Sadly, Cell Saga have too many flaws, main one being fact, that characters need to act like idiots to make story not end in 1-2 episodes, Freeza Saga on the other hand would be perfect ending.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon May 13, 2019 9:16 am

I feel that without the Majin Boo arc I would have not liked Vegeta in general, because it's only in that arc that he becomes a truly fully fleshed character, in my opinion.

But I do feel the Cell arc was the perfect conclusion for Gohan's character arc.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by ABED » Mon May 13, 2019 10:40 am

coola wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:03 am
Sadly, Cell Saga have too many flaws, main one being fact, that characters need to act like idiots to make story not end in 1-2 episodes, Freeza Saga on the other hand would be perfect ending.
They aren't acting like idiots. They didn't fail to realize a sensible way to stop Dr. Gero from creating the cyborgs. They wanted to fight them.
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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 am

ABED wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:40 am
coola wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:03 am
Sadly, Cell Saga have too many flaws, main one being fact, that characters need to act like idiots to make story not end in 1-2 episodes, Freeza Saga on the other hand would be perfect ending.
They aren't acting like idiots. They didn't fail to realize a sensible way to stop Dr. Gero from creating the cyborgs. They wanted to fight them.
This.

Toriyama had Bulma point out the obvious solution because of this. That was the whole point.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 am

Personally I like the ending we got. Goku leaving with Uub feels happy and optimistic, while ending with Cell would be sad, because of Gohan losing his father again without being able to ever see him.

And we'd remember Vegeta as the annoying asshole he was in the Cell arc, rather than the redeemed hero he became in the Buu arc. Same for Mr Satan actually. And to be honest I just like the Buu arc better than the Cell arc anyway. It's just more fun and wildly unpredictable.

The idea of the series ending with Goku's death has always just sounded a bit too depressing for me. It's like how Sylvester Stallone had originally planned on killing off Rocky in Rocky 5, but changed his mind because it would be too depressing.

If you must go that route then you won't do any better than the GT ending. It's sad, but at least the characters feel more complete by then.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by ruler9871 » Mon May 13, 2019 9:38 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:16 am
I feel that without the Majin Boo arc I would have not liked Vegeta in general, because it's only in that arc that he becomes a truly fully fleshed character, in my opinion.

But I do feel the Cell arc was the perfect conclusion for Gohan's character arc.
Vegeta was already more fleshed-out than 95% of the cast by the end of the Cell Games. The Buu saga simply widened the gap.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by Toxin45 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:16 am

sintzu wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:19 pm
Fans make arguments that it should've ended with Namek or even after the 23rd Tenkaichi. The problem with ending it anywhere else besides the Buu arc is it leaves great concepts and plot points behind.

If it ended with the 23rd Tenkaichi we wouldn't have gotten any of the great concepts and characters introduced in Z.

If it ended with Namek we wouldn't have seen Piccolo and Gohan's story develop and come full circle. We also wouldn't have gotten Future Trunks.

If it ended with Cell we wouldn't have seen Vegeta's story conclude. He wouldn't have gotten his rematch with Goku or found peace with who he became and in relation to Goku. We wouldn't have gotten fusion, Ssj3 & , Mystic Gohan & the Genkidama finally working. We wouldn't have seen Mr. Satan go through a character arc.

I could understand wanting it end with Cell if the Buu arc was just a waste of time but it wasn't. It was just as meaningful and packed with as much content as any previous arc.

In terms of the perfect villain, I don't think it's Cell or even Freeza but rather Beerus. Unlike Freeza and Cell who eventually fell, Beerus reminded Goku what Roshi told him and Krillin all those years ago, There's always someone stronger. If anything, BOG is where DB should've ended, not Cell or Buu.
Beerus wasn't even a real villain dude but then super happened you praise beerus too much when he himself was small fry compared to zeno.

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Re: Dragon Ball should've ended at Cell

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:31 am

Story-wise, I agree that the Cell arc was a nice bow on Dragon Ball -- at least the story of Goku. But if it did end with Cell, I'm pretty sure that there would be a large fan demand to resurrect the series at some point anyway. I believe that there would be interest to see what happened with Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, Kaio, and Goku.

Personally, the Boo arc wasn't some story marvel, but I enjoyed it for what it was.

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