Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

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ABED
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 11:49 am

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:27 am
ABED it seems to me that you don’t remember those scenes because you choose not to remember them due to your bias against Broly as a whole.
I don't know how anyone would go about choosing to not remember. The only way it could happen would be to not pay attention. I bought the movie, so that would be a waste of time and money. I don't have some weird agenda. I just didn't remember the fight. Perhaps I would if I watched it more, but I've seen it twice. What sense does any of this make for me to intentionally not like it or remember it? What possible good does this serve given how unimportant this is?

Given the movie is using a previous characterization to draw people to watch the film (otherwise why call it Broly) why is it irrational for me to come into this with some bias or preconceived notions?
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm

Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 12:02 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.
How do you measure something as objectively memorable? I didn't even say I disliked it, just that I don't remember much of it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Mon May 27, 2019 12:06 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:02 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.
How do you measure something as objectively memorable? I didn't even say I disliked it, just that I don't remember much of it.
Something that garnered such a mass attention—coupled with the praise that followed after the movie’s release—is objectively memorable. The movie was 60% battles, it’s hard not to remember them.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 12:16 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:06 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:02 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.
How do you measure something as objectively memorable? I didn't even say I disliked it, just that I don't remember much of it.
Something that garnered such a mass attention—coupled with the praise that followed after the movie’s release—is objectively memorable. The movie was 60% battles, it’s hard not to remember them.
How? You've showed that a high percentage of the audience enjoyed it (e.g. showed a subjective positive appraisal of the movie) not that if you see it you will remember the battle. I know the movie was a lot of battles and that's part of the problem, it's a lot of battles, but not a lot of character and it all kind of blends together because most of it was a lot of punchy punchy without it coming out of character. I recall the ending of the fight in BoG's because how it thematically played out for Goku. He stopped Beerus' attack from destroying the world but lost the battle thus showing him that he's still got moutains to climb. What I remember of the ending of the Broly fight is that he lost. Liking something and remembering are two different things. I enjoyed the film, I just don't remember much of the fight. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Mon May 27, 2019 12:30 pm

I understand what you’re saying, but what’s difficult is believing that bias doesn’t come into play here. Especially now that you’ve admitted that you aren’t particularly fond of Broly.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:30 pm
I understand what you’re saying, but what’s difficult is believing that bias doesn’t come into play here. Especially now that you’ve admitted that you aren’t particularly fond of Broly.
But what does that prove? I enjoyed the film more than I thought I would and I've said so many times including in a thread I made to express that exact point. Why would this bias prevent me from remembering the actual battle when I remember much of the rest of the movie? More to the point, why is my assessment of Broly unfair?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Cursed Lemon » Mon May 27, 2019 1:17 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm
More to the point, why is my assessment of Broly unfair?
Because you haven't provided a single contrary example as to what you consider to be a "memorable" fight, and why.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:17 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm
More to the point, why is my assessment of Broly unfair?
Because you haven't provided a single contrary example as to what you consider to be a "memorable" fight, and why.
I recall the beats of the Raditz battle, the Piccolo Jr. battle, the fight against Vegeta. I remember the shape of those battles and the moments in them, the intensity, and emotional core of those fights. For instance, one of my favorite moments during the final fight against Piccolo was when Goku allows the ki blast followed Goku until he stopped running from it, ran towards Piccolo and disappeared at the last second allowing it to hit Piccolo and shatter his arm. I recall Goku's confidence and that cocky smile right before he disappeared.
Last edited by ABED on Mon May 27, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Cursed Lemon » Mon May 27, 2019 1:23 pm

From the rest of the franchise.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 1:28 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:23 pm
From the rest of the franchise.
Okay I edited my post. I don't know what that is supposed to prove. Are you trying to find some common denominator in any example I give?

I don't remember much of the fight against Beerus, however, I remember that they got it right where it matters - the emotional core of the characters. One of the beats in the Broly fight I do recall is when Freeza murders Paragus and feigns concern to allow Broly's rage to increase his strength and defeat Goku. It was clever.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by The Monkey King » Tue May 28, 2019 2:25 pm

Battle of Gods did more to open up and expand the Dragon Ball Universe.

Super Broly was a superior in being a visual feast for the eyes.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue May 28, 2019 3:31 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:22 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:17 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm
More to the point, why is my assessment of Broly unfair?
Because you haven't provided a single contrary example as to what you consider to be a "memorable" fight, and why.
I recall the beats of the Raditz battle, the Piccolo Jr. battle, the fight against Vegeta. I remember the shape of those battles and the moments in them, the intensity, and emotional core of those fights. For instance, one of my favorite moments during the final fight against Piccolo was when Goku allows the ki blast followed Goku until he stopped running from it, ran towards Piccolo and disappeared at the last second allowing it to hit Piccolo and shatter his arm. I recall Goku's confidence and that cocky smile right before he disappeared.
Those examples don't even hold a candle to what Lemon provided.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 28, 2019 3:33 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.

I’m not convinced you know what objective means...

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue May 28, 2019 3:35 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:33 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.

I’m not convinced you know what objective means...
Feel free to post an actual argument and not resort to ad hominem.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:35 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:33 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Either it’s that, or it’s not that you don’t remember them but instead you refuse to acknowledge it. The fights were objectively memorable.

I’m not convinced you know what objective means...
Feel free to post an actual argument and not resort to ad hominem.
Can we just stop throwing ad hominems either way? It's DB, ladies and gents. And for the record, there's no such thing as "objectively memorable". Now, how do my examples not hold a candle to the ones in Broly?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue May 28, 2019 3:50 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 pm
Now, how do my examples not hold a candle to the ones in Broly?
I'd say two fighters shattering into another fucking dimension blows that out of the water. Something we've never seen done before in DB.

Come on now, ABED.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Tue May 28, 2019 3:57 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:50 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 pm
Now, how do my examples not hold a candle to the ones in Broly?
I'd say two fighters shattering into another fucking dimension blows that out of the water. Something we've never seen done before in DB.

Come on now, ABED.
That's not the sort of thing I care about. Goku's odd self confidence and grin shortly before one of the grossest moments in the series - Piccolo ripping off his shattered arm, is the kind of thing I find interesting. Shattering dimensions is impersonal and we've seen a fight that tears down dimensional barriers during the fight against Buu and Vegetto. Why is it so difficult to wrap your head around someone remembering different moments than you? I haven't even said one moment is better than the other, just that one sticks in my mind.

Here's another really interesting fight - the one against Reacoom. From Vegeta's berzerker rage and beating the piss out of Reacoom, to the cumaltive damage showing on Reacoom's body without it actually slowing him down. The brutality of breaking a child's neck right before Goku arrives to save his son and best friend. That's the sort of thing I remember.
Last edited by ABED on Tue May 28, 2019 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 28, 2019 3:59 pm

Kami to Kami has a fun script and voice performances. Broli has both of those and gorgeous directing and animation on top of that. Overall, Broli is a better film even with it's short running time being it's major flaw. Kami to Kami would be better if the production and staff hadn't been terrible.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:59 pm
Kami to Kami has a fun script and voice performances. Broli has both of those and gorgeous directing and animation on top of that. Overall, Broli is a better film even with it's short running time being it's major flaw. Kami to Kami would be better if the production and staff hadn't been terrible.
Really? I found it too long. I know what Toriyama was going for with fathers and sons in the prologue but it's mostly boring, and the stuff with Freeza feels superfluous. It's mostly padding even if the scene where Freeza pretends he's concerned about Paragus's death makes me laugh. That and the fight drags on and on.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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