Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

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Chilly
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Chilly » Tue May 28, 2019 4:59 pm

I really think it could go either way here; it really is a matter of preference. I enjoy Battle of Gods immensely more than Broly though. From a narrative standpoint, I did quite like introduction of multiple universes and the feeling that Goku was such a small part of that. That was something the Dragon Ball franchise needed at that point in time imo. Yeah, the animation is not as good as Broly but I'll take that over a bunch of fan service any day of the week. The Super: Broly movie is great, don't get me wrong, but it had many underwhelming moments for me (lack of Broly dialogue, pacing issues, too long of a run time). But eh, what do I know.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 28, 2019 8:50 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:59 pm
Kami to Kami has a fun script and voice performances. Broli has both of those and gorgeous directing and animation on top of that. Overall, Broli is a better film even with it's short running time being it's major flaw. Kami to Kami would be better if the production and staff hadn't been terrible.
Really? I found it too long. I know what Toriyama was going for with fathers and sons in the prologue but it's mostly boring, and the stuff with Freeza feels superfluous. It's mostly padding even if the scene where Freeza pretends he's concerned about Paragus's death makes me laugh. That and the fight drags on and on.
Yeah, the fights are perfect and exciting, barring a lack of broken bones and judou. I have a couple ideas in general for how I would change the story but the biggest would be easily done in adding two or three actions to better clarify Broli's perspective after meeting Gokuu and Vegeta as well as having my Big Green Son get kissed by my Smol Green Daughter and like it.

Nagamine was so very clearly shaving down shit to fit the production schedule and runtime he was given that there definitely feels like some stuff was cut with the hope that it would still make sense with some guessing.

When I get a chance I need to sit down and write why I like the Broli version of Minus so much. I thought it did a great job of painting Bardock as unique as a Saiyan without being a good person, either.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by sintzu » Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm

The final fight was anything but perfect. As good as it looked, the whole thing was a one sided beat down that got old really fast.
ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 pm
I found it too long. I know what Toriyama was going for with fathers and sons in the prologue but it's mostly boring, and the stuff with Freeza feels superfluous. It's mostly padding even if the scene where Freeza pretends he's concerned about Paragus's death makes me laugh. That and the fight drags on and on.
One of the main issues with the movie is that it tries to do too much. Although it's only 100 minutes long, it feels a lot longer than it actually is due to the pacing being all over the place. As good as the production is, I think they should've just did something completely new (if possible) and focused instead of trying to combine multiple fan service elements into one.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Tue May 28, 2019 9:42 pm

What was cut down? The battle went for what felt like over half the runtime. So much of it felt repetitive. Is there any moment specifically you felt was condensed for the sake of the runtime?
sintzu wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm
The final fight was anything but perfect. As good as it looked, the whole thing was a one sided beat down that got old really fast.
ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 pm
I found it too long. I know what Toriyama was going for with fathers and sons in the prologue but it's mostly boring, and the stuff with Freeza feels superfluous. It's mostly padding even if the scene where Freeza pretends he's concerned about Paragus's death makes me laugh. That and the fight drags on and on.
One of the main issues with the movie is that it tries to do too much. Although it's only 100 minutes long, it feels a lot longer than it actually is due to the pacing being all over the place. As good as the production is, I think they should've just did something completely new (if possible) and focused instead of trying to combine multiple fan service elements into one.
Pretty much my thoughts.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by JulieYBM » Wed May 29, 2019 8:43 am

ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:42 pm
What was cut down? The battle went for what felt like over half the runtime. So much of it felt repetitive. Is there any moment specifically you felt was condensed for the sake of the runtime?
sintzu wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm
The final fight was anything but perfect. As good as it looked, the whole thing was a one sided beat down that got old really fast.
ABED wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:05 pm
I found it too long. I know what Toriyama was going for with fathers and sons in the prologue but it's mostly boring, and the stuff with Freeza feels superfluous. It's mostly padding even if the scene where Freeza pretends he's concerned about Paragus's death makes me laugh. That and the fight drags on and on.
One of the main issues with the movie is that it tries to do too much. Although it's only 100 minutes long, it feels a lot longer than it actually is due to the pacing being all over the place. As good as the production is, I think they should've just did something completely new (if possible) and focused instead of trying to combine multiple fan service elements into one.
Pretty much my thoughts.
Seven minutes worth of scenes were cut after the storyboard was finished. There was original enough material for a three hour movie but Nagamine was only allowed ninety minutes, although he still managed to get one hundred minutes out of the film.

In terms of easy points of condensing, it really does feel like the majority of it was done in the beginning half of the movie. Nevertheless, there's a nice briskness to the movie but the transitions between scenes would've probably been a lot slower had the film had more time. The focus on the fights were definitely the goal of the production with what limited time it had and that works out more than well enough because the animation and actors do a perfect job of telling us what we need to know about the characters. Shimada Bin's Broli grows and grows in sorrow and pain the longer the fight goes on while Gokuu and Vegeta are appropriately oblivious as they always are. Chirai and Lemo are clearly the only ones that are paying attention to Broli and it contrasts very well with the others. Broli's fighting out of conditioning and obligation, rather than his own conscious will. Freeza shamelessly sees Broli as a tool while Paragus has convinced himself that he's using Broli as a 'proper' instrument of revenge. Gokuu and Vegeta only ever see Broli as a new foe to fight. Chirai and Lemo are the only ones who see Broli for who he is and that's so clear throughout the actions and sparse dialogue these characters all speak throughout the back half of the film.

Other than getting rid of Gogeta I would have loved to see Gokuu and Vegeta to see visions of their parents while inside of the shattered dimension. Additionally, while Full-Power Broli is getting his ass beaten I think inserting quick flashes of what he wishes he could have: peace between himself, Paragus, Chirai and Lemo as he is mercilessly beaten would be a nice way to make Broli's wishes clearer.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Wed May 29, 2019 9:14 am

Are these moments in the movie you genuinely felt were missing or is it after the fact when you discovered? The film's plot is paper thin. Paragus wants revenge, Broly wants to be left in peace, and Freeza wants to use Broly's power to succeed where he failed. Hardly calls for a long movie. If anything it should've been closer to the first Broly movie or at most an hour and a half. There are films that feel like they were cut down because they are missing some connective tissue, but I never felt that here. If anything, there's padding.

And I think it's a tad disingenuous to say Goku and Vegeta only ever see Broly as a foe to fight. They see what's going on and try to stop it several times but will fight when provoked.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by superfan2024 » Wed May 29, 2019 7:59 pm

I'm pretty sure most of the missing scenes came mostly from the flashbacks.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri May 31, 2019 4:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:47 am

Dragon Ball is built on gaggy humor.
Was.

Times have changed. It doesn't need it anymore. Humour through dialogue is much more appropriate for where most the characters are adults and I dont wanna see grown ass people act dipshity. Frankly I'd be embarrassed if I watched BoG in theatres.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri May 31, 2019 4:27 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:08 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:47 am

Dragon Ball is built on gaggy humor.
Was.

.
The last arc of the original manga run literally had a pink bubblegum genie turn people into sweets.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri May 31, 2019 4:54 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:27 pm
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:08 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:47 am

Dragon Ball is built on gaggy humor.
Was.

.
The last arc of the original manga run literally had a pink bubblegum genie turn people into sweets.
It wasn’t really portrayed as a funny moment though, as ridiculous as the concept was.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri May 31, 2019 5:03 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:54 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:27 pm
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:08 pm


Was.

.
The last arc of the original manga run literally had a pink bubblegum genie turn people into sweets.
It wasn’t really portrayed as a funny moment though, as ridiculous as the concept was.
It was still clearly a byproduct of coming from a dude who is mostly a gag author. Things that are played completely straight can be intended as a joke.

It’s like the Adam West Batman series. The fact that everyone was delivering ridiculous lines and treating the farce dead serious was the joke.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Fri May 31, 2019 5:12 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:59 pm
I'm pretty sure most of the missing scenes came mostly from the flashbacks.
And the film is the better for it. Instead of all the Bardock stuff, which has NO effect on the story, they should've fleshed out the story between Broly and Paragus more.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by superfan2024 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:55 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:12 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:59 pm
I'm pretty sure most of the missing scenes came mostly from the flashbacks.
And the film is the better for it. Instead of all the Bardock stuff, which has NO effect on the story, they should've fleshed out the story between Broly and Paragus more.
There could've potentially been more Broly/Paragus stuff for all we know. I mean, there was more kid Vegeta/Raditz stuff that was cut as well.

Kind of sad there's missing Toriyama/canon stuff we have yet to see. This is why I am sort of hoping we get a re-telling of Broly when Super returns.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by sintzu » Fri May 31, 2019 9:08 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:55 pm
Kind of sad there's missing Toriyama/canon stuff we have yet to see. This is why I am sort of hoping we get a re-telling of Broly when Super returns.
Even if there was a retelling, we may not see what was cut as there was also things cut from Toriyama's BOG script that didn't make it into the retelling. If anything, the retelling cut out even more things such as the reason why Pilaf was a kid again.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:43 am

Raditz is also an unnecessary addition to the movie. The movie could use a trim, not a fleshing out.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:49 pm

Battle of Gods is superior in almost every possible way. Too bad it's so underrated.
It was very good movie, one of the best in franchise. Story was original, SSG was original, Beerus and Whis were original. Movie was funny and SSG was (at least back then) impressive. It was something more than usual "generic villain appears on Earth and gets trashed", when Broly was EXACTLY this with only one minor difference that Broly survived.

DBS Broly is lazy garbage that doesn't bring anything to franchise. Nothing more but cheap rehash of old and very popular stories. Broly is ever more brainless and dumb than before, Gogeta was ruined and made me like SSB Vegito far more despite prefering SSJ/SSJ4 Gogeta over any version of Vegito. Gogeta was simply awful.

My personal ratings:
DBZ Battle of Gods: 8/10 (Very good)
DBS Broly: 2/10 (Awful)

Still better than Ressurection 'F' though. That one was actually worse than Evolution.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:12 pm

I vibe on both the multiple favorable Battle of Gods assessments in this thread (it's genuinely very funny and thematically fitting as an epilogue) and the view of Broly outlined in the opening post. I really do think its story works more than it's given credit for, though I also think it could have slowed down a bit; there's enough material to work with in the Broly/Paragus/Cheleye/Lemo side of things alone.

It's hard for me to land on one or the other. About as much as I can consistently say is that they both stand head and shoulder over the rest. (Though adding the lesser "F" into the mix, I can also say that I'd take any of the three Toriyama-scripted movies over the rest.)

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:01 pm

Someone please enlighten me as to why Gogeta was "awful".

Because I'm feeling a really asinine reason coming on.
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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:02 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:49 pm
Battle of Gods is superior in almost every possible way. Too bad it's so underrated.
Please, it’s hardly underrated. Relatively speaking as far as the Dragon Ball community is concerned, both hardcore and casual, the thing was huge.

, when Broly was EXACTLY this with only one minor difference that Broly survived.
Not really. He was much more fleshed out than he ever was in the Z films.

DBS Broly is lazy garbage that doesn't bring anything to franchise.
It took an incredibly popular character (Broli) who sucked as a character and made him not terrible. That’s something.

Also Cheelai is boss.

Nothing more but cheap rehash of old and very popular stories
The majority of Dragon Ball movies are already rehash. At least Super Broli improved on the story it rehashed rather than exist as a lamer been there done that version.
. Broly is ever more brainless and dumb than before,
Wrong.
Gogeta was ruined and made me like SSB Vegito far more despite prefering SSJ/SSJ4 Gogeta over any version of Vegito. Gogeta was simply awful.
I have no idea how anyone can have opinion on Gogeta as a character positive and negative. He was there as fan service. He...existed.

Still better than Ressurection 'F' though. That one was actually worse than Evolution.
How so?

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Re: Battle of Gods vs Super: Broly

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:43 am

It took an incredibly popular character (Broli) who sucked as a character and made him not terrible. That’s something.
Old Broly was far better tho. They removed any positive things about this character and left only those that made him suck.
Wrong.
No. Old Broly was maniac, but he wasn't brainless, not in first movie at least. He was still talking to them and was totally controlling his actions. DBS Broly doesn't do anything but screaming and attacking everything and everyone.
How so?
RoF is basically two Smurfs vs Oscar award. It brings a lazy recolor form that is already outclassed in its debut. Outclassed by early SSJ level trash who trained for few months and turned gold. Everything is better than this garbage. Even Evolution.
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