Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

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Tavarano
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Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tavarano » Sun May 26, 2019 7:57 pm

Oh my hubby is returning as he fancied himself an earthly martial arts competition, right after enjoying his wonderful afterlife adventures with me diligently bringing two portions of seed he sowed in me to fruition. I, a lowly wench, should have attended appearance bettering services more often to increase the likelihood of a lip to lip contact gift from my perfect husbando occuring.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 26, 2019 8:05 pm

Tavarano wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:57 pm
Oh my hubby is returning as he fancied himself an earthly martial arts competition, right after enjoying his wonderful afterlife adventures with me diligently bringing two portions of seed he sowed in me to fruition. I, a lowly wench, should have attended appearance bettering services more often to increase the likelihood of a lip to lip contact gift from my perfect husbando occuring.
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Julie the Writer: Toriyama just doesn't care about writing for Chi-Chi and that's okay.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KBABZ » Sun May 26, 2019 8:48 pm

The writing of it I think is kinda sexist in a way that is consistent across the franchise (not to mention Chi Chi being the embodiment of the Annoying Nagging Wife trope), but with Chi Chi being so headstrong over Goku I don't think their relationship is. Ultimately, Goku is the protagonist and the story isn't really interested in showing relationships outside of when it paid some attention to Gohan and Videl. Chi Chi is left a widow by Goku's actions as the hero in semi-service to Gohan taking the spotlight at the end of the Cell arc, but she IMO copes fairly well all things considered and she raises Goten like a champ.

It's kinda hard for me to make a definitive call either way simply because the story heeds almost no focus to Goku and Chi Chi's relationship at any point (although I can't speak for Super). There are two great scenes in the Android Arc that fill it out a little bit, namely when Chi-Chi thanks Trunks for helping keep Goku alive, and after Goku recovers from the Heart Virus. It really shows that despite her constant frustration, she does love Goku at the end of the day.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun May 26, 2019 8:59 pm

I'm starting to get tired of the Topic Creator's obsession with "Is X Dragon Ball element Y Negative thing."
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Nokra » Sun May 26, 2019 9:16 pm

Short answer: No. Long answer: Nope.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tai Lung » Sun May 26, 2019 10:07 pm

Tavarano wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:57 pm
Oh my hubby is returning as he fancied himself an earthly martial arts competition, right after enjoying his wonderful afterlife adventures with me diligently bringing two portions of seed he sowed in me to fruition. I, a lowly wench, should have attended appearance bettering services more often to increase the likelihood of a lip to lip contact gift from my perfect husbando occuring.
Image
I can not see the image.

I would say no ...
toriyama hated chichi so he did not put any interest to the character or her relationship with goku and focused more on her role as a mother forgetting any other aspect, chichi did not was "warrior". I thinks simply that the relationship feels careless Unlike other couples in the series.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun May 26, 2019 10:31 pm

I really wouldn't say that, seeing how Goku's and Chi Chi's overall relationship barely figures into the grand scheme of things in the manga and only barely just a little more in the anime.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sun May 26, 2019 10:38 pm

I think we're given every impression that Chi Chi wanted a quiet family life.

As for whether or not Chi Chi should be putting up with Goku's bullshit, well that's another matter.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KuririnNoKotoKa » Sun May 26, 2019 10:55 pm

Nah.

Chi-Chi is a dick to Goku too. She:

- Dragged him into marriage. She specifically came for it and got what she wanted. Goku had no idea what it was and she still took what she wanted for granted.
- Jumps over Goku's broken body after the Saiyan fight, which Goku notices.
- Nags over Gohan wanting to go to Namek, with Goku visibly getting annoyed by it.

Everyone takes the Toriyama statements in just one way but... Chi-Chi sucks at it too. And they are seemingly both fine with it. Yeah, he beats her out of their house (wearing wife beaters no less!) and dumps her to train in heaven, but he got abused by her plenty too.

They are just two dumb hicks who had no idea on how parenting or traditional relationships work that somehow made a mostly well balanced nerd as a result.

That's the joke.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 pm

These responses are cracking my shit up.

No it’s not sexist. Chi chi sucks too! Therefore not sexist. :clap: :clap: :eh: :lol: :lol:

The writing for Chi Chi is undeniably sexist. She exist to push out some tots for Goku. Her character revolved around wanting to marry Goku and then being a nagging fun sucking broad and a tiger mom. That’s it.

I have some issues with the writing for Bulma and 18 but no female character got hit with the “this is a manga for young boys who cares about da wimmin?” hammer more than ChiChi.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KuririnNoKotoKa » Mon May 27, 2019 2:26 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 pm
These responses are cracking my shit up.

No it’s not sexist. Chi chi sucks too! Therefore not sexist. :clap: :clap: :eh: :lol: :lol:

The writing for Chi Chi is undeniably sexist. She exist to push out some tots for Goku. Her character revolved around wanting to marry Goku and then being a nagging fun sucking broad and a tiger mom. That’s it.

I have some issues with the writing for Bulma and 18 but no female character got hit with the “this is a manga for young boys who cares about da wimmin?” hammer more than ChiChi.
Wait a minute, you have some issues with Bulma yet Chi-Chi is undeniably sexist?

You know that this is the series that had its author dressing his teenage co-lead, at the time, in a Playboy bunny girl outfit right? Are you aware of where these come from? Dressing a child up like a nightclub bartender (Not exclusively, but more often than not. Bunnies had different roles as well.) whose job is explicitly to excite, but not fuck, older men while serving them beverages is, well, mildly fucked up to say the least, let alone how she eventually just settled into being the womb for a sociopath's children because Toriyama watched Terminator sometime before the Cell arc and needed a free spot for his Wuxia Kyle Reese to exist.

Please don't tell me these are just a couple of small issues. The moment you take the sense of whimsy out of this story, it's genuinely gross on how effectively every single female character is handled, but good thing we all have the self awareness to know that this is just a dumb comic by an author with a fucked up sense of humor attempting to amuse himself, right?

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon May 27, 2019 4:50 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 pm
I have some issues with the writing for Bulma and 18 but no female character got hit with the “this is a manga for young boys who cares about da wimmin?” hammer more than ChiChi.
Honestly I think Videl should be mentioned as well for having a COMPLETE character rewrite.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 27, 2019 8:57 am

KBABZ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:50 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 pm
I have some issues with the writing for Bulma and 18 but no female character got hit with the “this is a manga for young boys who cares about da wimmin?” hammer more than ChiChi.
Honestly I think Videl should be mentioned as well for having a COMPLETE character rewrite.
What, in Super? If anything they improved her character. Videl's calmer and strong-willed without having to scream about it. She's determined to not be unduly influenced by others--like her mother-in-law--and doesn't just believe weird psychological attacks like the one from the Barry Kahn incident. This is to say nothing of having a much more emotionally measured response to her dad's dumb-fuckery.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon May 27, 2019 11:08 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:57 am
What, in Super? If anything they improved her character. Videl's calmer and strong-willed without having to scream about it. She's determined to not be unduly influenced by others--like her mother-in-law--and doesn't just believe weird psychological attacks like the one from the Barry Kahn incident. This is to say nothing of having a much more emotionally measured response to her dad's dumb-fuckery.
Ah! That's really good to hear. My only exposure to her character post-Buu is in Battle of Gods, and while it was great to see her involved directly into the plot of that movie, I HATED that she was changed from a plucky, attitude-filled, cocky martial artist into the fourth mother figure of the group.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by TheBigBoy » Mon May 27, 2019 1:40 pm

I can't imagine being so fucking broke brained that I would analyze children's entertainment like this, read a fucking book or get out of the house for fuck's sake.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by ABED » Mon May 27, 2019 1:43 pm

TheBigBoy wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:40 pm
I can't imagine being so fucking broke brained that I would analyze children's entertainment like this, read a fucking book or get out of the house for fuck's sake.
Not sure what this means. If someone genuinely believes there's an implicitly sexist characterization or message even in a children's show, it's worth discussing. Hell, it's arguably more important for a children's program. Children absorb things like a sponge.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon May 27, 2019 2:49 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:08 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:57 am
What, in Super? If anything they improved her character. Videl's calmer and strong-willed without having to scream about it. She's determined to not be unduly influenced by others--like her mother-in-law--and doesn't just believe weird psychological attacks like the one from the Barry Kahn incident. This is to say nothing of having a much more emotionally measured response to her dad's dumb-fuckery.
Ah! That's really good to hear. My only exposure to her character post-Buu is in Battle of Gods, and while it was great to see her involved directly into the plot of that movie, I HATED that she was changed from a plucky, attitude-filled, cocky martial artist into the fourth mother figure of the group.
As it became clear in super, Videl only behaved like this because she lived all her life believing that her father was the savior of the earth and videl is his daughter, she had to take his place but once the lie was discovered and there was no need to behave of that I see it as a sign of maturity since now she is dedicated to what she likes.

I do not deny that it has some errors but I think that at least his change was well justified and videl's relationship with gohan was well managed.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Mon May 27, 2019 5:18 pm

Chi-Chi is a smarter and more grounded person than her husband, her role is to mind him and their children. It's not sexist.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 27, 2019 5:27 pm

I would also like to remind the ladies, gentlemen and enbies of the court that I would love for Chi-Chi and Videl to have replaced Tenshinhan and Gohan in the Tournament of Power. That would be way more fun for character interactions.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon May 27, 2019 5:32 pm

Here's what we know about Goku and Chi Chi's relationship:

- As a child, Chi Chi fell in love Goku at first sight and wanted to marry him and have a family with him when they got older.
- Goku has no concept of marriage but agrees to it anyway.
- Goku and Chi Chi live off of Ox King's donations and Chi Chi wants their child to grow up to have a well paying job os that they don't have to rely on handouts to get by.
- Chi Chi is against Goku's unfiltered focus on martial arts -- as it does nothing to bring in needed income for their family -- even if the situation demands for Goku and Gohan to focus on training in their goal of saving the world.
- Chi Chi can display both apathy and sympathy to Goku's well being.
- Goku will disregard Chi Chi demands and do what he wants. But despite that attitude, she's unperturbed by Goku actions and focus what to feed him for when he come back home.
- Goku has never kissed Chi Chi, indicating that Goku is perhaps asexual. Even taking that into consideration, he has fathered two children and cares for them greatly.
- Following the death of her husband, Chi Chi mellows on her determination to steer her sons from anything regards martial arts and even goes the extra mile and trains Goten.
- Goku goes into a very enraged states on learning the grim fates on Chi Chi and Goten in an alternate timeline.

So judging from what we know of the dynamic between Goku and Chi Chi... no, it's not sexist. While their ideals and motives have certainly clashed, I wouldn't say it's indicative of a sexist relationship.

There is a mutual understanding between the two of them. Goku know what Chi Chi wants -- a breadwinner in the family -- and comes to terms with that by taking up a job as a farmer. Chi Chi knows what Goku wants -- to train and focus on martial arts -- as has shown on several occasion she willing to compromise on what may be best for her family in general to appease her husbands desires

More than anything, their respective emotional reactions when learning each other's fates -- Goku's immense anger and Chi Chi's despair -- display their care and love for each other is on a somewhat even keel.

Now I will say that Chi Chi's character writing can get quite over the top at times. The total apathy she displayed to Goku's practically paralysed body after the battle against Vegeta and her outright stating she didn't give a shit about the fate of the world as Gohan's studies were more important to her than that was terrible writing.

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