Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon May 27, 2019 5:37 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 5:32 pm Here's what we know about Goku and Chi Chi's relationship:

- As a child, Chi Chi fell in love Goku at first sight and wanted to marry him and have a family with him when they got older.
- Goku has no concept of marriage but agrees to it anyway.
- Goku and Chi Chi live off of Ox King's donations and Chi Chi wants their child to grow up to have a well paying job os that they don't have to rely on handouts to get by.
- Chi Chi is against Goku's unfiltered focus on martial arts -- as it does nothing to bring in needed income for their family -- even if the situation demands for Goku and Gohan to focus on training in their goal of saving the world.
- Chi Chi can display both apathy and sympathy to Goku's well being.
- Goku will disregard Chi Chi demands and do what he wants. But despite that attitude, she's unperturbed by Goku actions and focus what to feed him for when he come back home.
- Goku has never kissed Chi Chi, indicating that Goku is perhaps asexual. Even taking that into consideration, he has fathered two children and cares for them greatly.
- Following the death of her husband, Chi Chi mellows on her determination to steer her sons from anything regards martial arts and even goes the extra mile and trains Goten.
- Goku goes into a very enraged states on learning the grim fates on Chi Chi and Goten in an alternate timeline.

So judging from what we know of the dynamic between Goku and Chi Chi... no, it's not sexist. While their ideals and motives have certainly clashed, I wouldn't say it's indicative of a sexist relationship.

There is a mutual understanding between the two of them. Goku know what Chi Chi wants -- a breadwinner in the family -- and comes to terms with that by taking up a job as a farmer. Chi Chi knows what Goku wants -- to train and focus on martial arts -- as has shown on several occasion she willing to compromise on what may be best for her family in general to appease her husbands desires

More than anything, their respective emotional reactions when learning each other's fates -- Goku's immense anger and Chi Chi's despair -- display their care and love for each other is on a somewhat even keel.

Now I will say that Chi Chi's character writing can get quite over the top at times. The total apathy she displayed to Goku's practically paralysed body after the battle against Vegeta and her outright stating she didn't give a shit about the fate of the world as Gohan's studies were more important to her than that was terrible writing.
Those latter two instances in particular at the bottom there are the most notable examples i can think of that shows just how extreme they could write her education obsessed tiger mama moments to exaggerated levels, especially the former where she acts as if Goku isn't even there despite Krillin outright pointing out the severity of his injuries to her. The way she charges full speed out of the ship straight to freshly de transformed Gohan in his arms always never fails to make me cringe. It's moments like those which really show just how much they played up those aspects of her character.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 27, 2019 7:01 pm

It's a joke, perhaps not the funniest type of joke to reuse so much but it is nevertheless just a joke to parody the archetype.
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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 am

I would consider it relevant to take into account what was said by the author in the interview was in 2014 before the creation of super and currently he have mentions it again and he talked about the relationship that goku has been with his family.
I do not think the character is asexual because he had children, goku just is a saiyan, they do not have those interests however they have the instinct of reproduction as most saiyans do not seem to have the concept of family, you could say that bardock and vegeta did not have it in the past but gine and bulma managed to instill that feeling in them.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KBABZ » Tue May 28, 2019 1:54 am

Tai Lung wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 2:49 pm As it became clear in super, Videl only behaved like this because she lived all her life believing that her father was the savior of the earth and videl is his daughter, she had to take his place but once the lie was discovered and there was no need to behave of that I see it as a sign of maturity since now she is dedicated to what she likes.
Total disagree, IMO Mr. Satan's fame as the killer of Cell was never her motivation to get into martial arts (in fact I don't think that has ever been explored). There's no taking up of the mantle or anything, to me that's what she does.
Tai Lung wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 am I do not think the character is asexual because he had children
This is factually untrue. Just because you have no interest in sex doesn't exclusively mean you don't want or are incapable of having children either. In fact asexuality only applies to sex, so you can still have a romantic relationship as an asexual.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 28, 2019 10:39 am

Tai Lung wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 am
I do not think the character is asexual because he had children, goku just is a saiyan, they do not have those interests however they have the instinct of reproduction as most saiyans do not seem to have the concept of family, you could say that bardock and vegeta did not have it in the past but gine and bulma managed to instill that feeling in them.
He does have not sexual desires, he doesn’t experience sexual attraction. He is asexual. Being asexual doesn’t mean he’s incapable of sexual reproduction.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 pm

Semi-irrelevant, but is it me or does it seem like Chi-Chi and 18 want opposite things in their husband? Unlike Goku, Krillin is perfectly content, and even desires, to give up martial arts, settle down, and have a normal job. But 18 harps on to him about being a wimp and a weakling.

It's like Goku and Krillin should trade wives or something.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am

the funny with 18 thing is that according to the author, she married with Krillin because she wanted to have a more peaceful life in her life. in the anime seems more for the fact that krillin was brave although he was weak.
KBABZ wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 1:54 am Total disagree, IMO Mr. Satan's fame as the killer of Cell was never her motivation to get into martial arts (in fact I don't think that has ever been explored). There's no taking up of the mantle or anything, to me that's what she does.
in the episode of DBS, gohan and mr satan play with pan
she says she always wanted to do "girlish things" although obviously taking into account who she was she could not do it.
Mr. Satan insists that his granddaughter, pan follow the path of martial arts and it remains implicit that he did the same with his daughter.
Videl wants her daughter to follow her own path.
in the anime version of the fight , videl and spopovich.
videl refuses to lose claiming that she is the daughter of mr satan
if you do not agree ok
but it's her words, not mine
KBABZ wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 1:54 am This is factually untrue. Just because you have no interest in sex doesn't exclusively mean you don't want or are incapable of having children either. In fact asexuality only applies to sex, so you can still have a romantic relationship as an asexual.
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:39 am He does have not sexual desires, he doesn’t experience sexual attraction.
if there are not those 2 things I see it difficult for both of them to have a consensual intimate relationship.
Another thing is that Goku does not have it as his main interest but he has that instinct like most saiyans

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by KBABZ » Wed May 29, 2019 10:16 am

Tai Lung wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am in the episode of DBS, gohan and mr satan play with pan
she says she always wanted to do "girlish things" although obviously taking into account who she was she could not do it.
Mr. Satan insists that his granddaughter, pan follow the path of martial arts and it remains implicit that he did the same with his daughter.
Videl wants her daughter to follow her own path.
in the anime version of the fight , videl and spopovich.
videl refuses to lose claiming that she is the daughter of mr satan
if you do not agree ok
but it's her words, not mine
It's possible to be both feminine and masculine. Videl is a tomboy 90% of the time in the early Buu saga, but her scene where she learns how to use her ki have VERY feminine reactions from her (ignoring the sexual tension subtext that the scene is bathed in). She mellows out after meeting Gohan sure but she never lost her drive for martial arts, and having a new, take-no-shit, athletic and fighting-talented human in the case is a rarity by that point in the story, let alone a FEMALE one, so it's a shame she's put on the backburner and turns into a mom in personality.
Tai Lung wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am if there are not those 2 things I see it difficult for both of them to have a consensual intimate relationship.
Another thing is that Goku does not have it as his main interest but he has that instinct like most saiyans
I think you're not being open-minded enough on the matter. I have personal experience with asexual relationships, and more than able to make it work. Remember, asexuality is a disinterest in SEX specifically: it does not preclude things such as hugging, cuddling, snuggling, kissing, and that sort of thing (but I imagine it varies from person to person). While Goku would obviously not be interested in those things either, going from my experiences it's more than likely that he partakes in those things for Chi Chi's sake because, well, he LOVES her.

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed May 29, 2019 10:31 am

KBABZ wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:16 am
Tai Lung wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am in the episode of DBS, gohan and mr satan play with pan
she says she always wanted to do "girlish things" although obviously taking into account who she was she could not do it.
Mr. Satan insists that his granddaughter, pan follow the path of martial arts and it remains implicit that he did the same with his daughter.
Videl wants her daughter to follow her own path.
in the anime version of the fight , videl and spopovich.
videl refuses to lose claiming that she is the daughter of mr satan
if you do not agree ok
but it's her words, not mine
It's possible to be both feminine and masculine. Videl is a tomboy 90% of the time in the early Buu saga, but her scene where she learns how to use her ki have VERY feminine reactions from her (ignoring the sexual tension subtext that the scene is bathed in). She mellows out after meeting Gohan sure but she never lost her drive for martial arts, and having a new, take-no-shit, athletic and fighting-talented human in the case is a rarity by that point in the story, let alone a FEMALE one, so it's a shame she's put on the backburner and turns into a mom in personality.
Tai Lung wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am if there are not those 2 things I see it difficult for both of them to have a consensual intimate relationship.
Another thing is that Goku does not have it as his main interest but he has that instinct like most saiyans
I think you're not being open-minded enough on the matter. I have personal experience with asexual relationships, and more than able to make it work. Remember, asexuality is a disinterest in SEX specifically: it does not preclude things such as hugging, cuddling, snuggling, kissing, and that sort of thing (but I imagine it varies from person to person). While Goku would obviously not be interested in those things either, going from my experiences it's more than likely that he partakes in those things for Chi Chi's sake because, well, he LOVES her.
He certainly had no problems hugging and being affectionate with Chi-Chi in the Buu Saga either

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Re: Is the relationship between Goku and ChiChi sexist?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed May 29, 2019 1:42 pm

KBABZ wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:16 am It's possible to be both feminine and masculine. Videl is a tomboy 90% of the time in the early Buu saga, but her scene where she learns how to use her ki have VERY feminine reactions from her (ignoring the sexual tension subtext that the scene is bathed in). She mellows out after meeting Gohan sure but she never lost her drive for martial arts, and having a new, take-no-shit, athletic and fighting-talented human in the case is a rarity by that point in the story, let alone a FEMALE one, so it's a shame she's put on the backburner and turns into a mom in personality.
I do not say that the whole character in z is false but I think she was very similar to gohan, both could enjoy the martial arts to protect the earth and as daughter / son of the savior of the earth it was her/his duty to continue with the legacy but later they retired and they preferred to have a peaceful life.
KBABZ wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:16 am I think you're not being open-minded enough on the matter. I have personal experience with asexual relationships, and more than able to make it work. Remember, asexuality is a disinterest in SEX specifically: it does not preclude things such as hugging, cuddling, snuggling, kissing, and that sort of thing (but I imagine it varies from person to person). While Goku would obviously not be interested in those things either, going from my experiences it's more than likely that he partakes in those things for Chi Chi's sake because, well, he LOVES her.
Well, goku if he embraced many of his friends that includes his wife even though he has never kissed her.
in fine... that is relative, I will be guided more by what is mentioned by the author in this case goku has no concept of family, even though he has a lot of love to his family, he doesn't feel "love of couple".
is mainly that goku has no interested, but outside of that can have children.

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