DB's ending

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:45 pm

I just thought of something, one of the reasons I like GT's endings even though it's different than anything Toriyama would've done is that it's very different form the manga's ending. If it had ended the same way, it would've felt superfluous by going through a whole other series just to end at the same point. It's similar to my feelings about T3. Terminator 2's ending is the perfect ending to not just that movie, but both films. It brings thematic closure to the story. The only way to make T3 not a complete waste was to end it the way they did - Judgment Day still happens. It's a terrible movie, but the ending makes it feel like the whole thing wasn't an outright waste of time.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:21 pm

sintzu wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:19 pm
The problem with Majin Buu is that he was never presented as this "final" villain, he was just the next guy Goku and friends fought and things just ended.
I disagree with this. Majin Boo was presented as being far more powerful and dangerous than any of the previous villains, and the arc itself raised the stakes higher than ever before. Things didn't "just end" either. The final battle's climax featuring the Genki Dama was clearly meant to signify the end of the entire story. And a huge time-skip for an epilogue also signifies the end of the series.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:28 pm

sintzu wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:19 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:16 pm
Technically, wasn’t the episode Epilogue from JLU the true finale for Batman Beyond?
That's all it was though, an epilogue. The real, big story was return of the joker.
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:15 pm
When Toriyama originally wrote that ending, the idea was that Majin Boo had been the most powerful opponent Goku had ever faced, which was why he was so excited about the prospect of fighting Oob.
The problem with Majin Buu is that he was never presented as this "final" villain, he was just the next guy Goku and friends fought and things just ended. BOG however went out of its way to present Beerus as the be all end all of the universe which gave him a sense of finality.
Boo presented Goku with a villain who impressed him so much he wished for him to be reincarnated as a good person so he could train him and have a proper fight with him.

Just because it wasn’t a typical Digimon:Digital Monsters esque THIS IS THE FINAL VILLAIN YOU MUST FACE HEROES doesn’t mean Boo wasn’t presented as the final villain.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:31 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:28 pm
Just because it wasn’t a typical Digimon:Digital Monsters esque THIS IS THE FINAL VILLAIN YOU MUST FACE HEROES doesn’t mean Boo wasn’t presented as the final villain.
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:21 pm
Majin Boo was presented as being far more powerful and dangerous than any of the previous villains.
He was presented no different than any previous villain. I don't know how Digimon works as I've never seen it but I think Buu could've been presented better. It also doesn't help that he has 0 conncection to any of the main cast.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:36 pm

sintzu wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:31 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:28 pm
Just because it wasn’t a typical Digimon:Digital Monsters esque THIS IS THE FINAL VILLAIN YOU MUST FACE HEROES doesn’t mean Boo wasn’t presented as the final villain.
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:21 pm
Majin Boo was presented as being far more powerful and dangerous than any of the previous villains.
He was presented no different than any previous villain. I don't know how Digimon works as I've never seen it but I think Buu could've been presented better. It also doesn't help that he has 0 conncection to any of the main cast.
Been there, done that. We don't need the villain to have a connection to the main cast's history. Was Hans Gruber a lesser villain for not having some history with John McClain? A problem I have with this approach is when it feels like writers taking a shortcut to depth. Every major antagonist since Piccolo Daimao has some history with the protagonists. This is a refreshing change of pace.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:31 pm

sintzu wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:31 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:21 pm
Majin Boo was presented as being far more powerful and dangerous than any of the previous villains.
He was presented no different than any previous villain.
He was a mindless killing machine who caused destruction for destruction's sake, and as a genie his abilities were wholly unpredictable. Also, his actions far surpassed the previous villains. He wiped out all life on Earth in moments. He destroyed the entire planet. He was seemingly an invincible and unstoppable force of nature.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by Skar » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:16 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:39 pm
Also, I dont want Dragon Ball to become another Detective Conan or Crayon Shin-chan with like 1500+ episodes
That's also my concern. Dragonball was always a series of progress and growth so it should never become a stagnant anime that go on forever with rhe protagonists barely aging. I

I consider DBS something extra in Goku's long journey throughout the series. Dragonball covered Goku's story from age 12 to age 47 while DBS only covers a small glimpse of his life from age 42 to 44 so far. The protagonists have already completed their character arcs so unless the author introduces new flaws for them to overcome or have them repeat the same arcs from before then there's not a lot that could be done with. I assume that's why Toriyama chose this time period and for DBS to be an interquel than a full-fledged sequel and why I don't think it'll ever pass EoZ.

If the series does return, I think the second anime will be shorter than the first. BoG introduced Beerus as the challenge Goku needed to overcome. After that, we had three sagas of antagonists in that range of stronger than SSJG but weaker than Beerus until they finally introduced a +GoD tier antagonist. Now that Goku has achieved UI and supposedly surpassed Beerus there may not be a lot left in the story. They had Goku lose the form which I assume is so they can squeeze in a few more storylines before Goku finally regains and masters UI.

I'm not sure if Toriyama intends for Goku to eventually surpass Whis but it could be that the Angels (along with Grand Priest and Zeno) are considered "cosmic beings" beyond what any mortal could reach. Dragonball followed the idea that "there's always a bigger fish" but we've already been introduced to the biggest fish in the multiverse, Zeno, who could destroy all of existence in a blink of an eye. It would a little redundant to introduce someone more powerful unless they're omnipotent or something. If Toriyama doesn't plan for Goku to reach that level, MUI might be the end of the line for him. It could be that once Goku fully masters UI and surpasses all other mortals and GoDs, he remembers Uub and DBS ends by transitioning to EoZ.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:07 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:24 pm
What scenes or lines present him (Beerus) as the be all end all?
Him being an actual God. That's as be all end all you can get which is probably why they're holding off on having Goku and Vegeta surpassing him.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:18 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:39 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:51 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:47 pm


I don't think I would call the final battle with Majin Boo and the Super Genki Dama "boring". And the last few episodes are supposed to be an epilogue after the climax.
Oh no, I wasn't talking about the arc but the show, I was referring to the epilogue, yes, too long and not memorable at all, it felt more like a "we'll be back next year", and were actually back a week later with GT, so it never felt to me like an ending probably.
To be exact, I was referring to the last episode, I would never re-watch Goku vs Uub and that lukewarm farewell to everyone, not like I rewatch Gt's episode 64 or Super's 131. The Pan bit from EoZ is much more enjoyable to me in GT's ending than in EoZ.
Even if GT hadn't been around the corner, it is in fact an ending. It's a thematic ending. What does an ending have to feel like one for you? The plot was wrapped up, everyone's stories are concluded, and Goku is going to train the reincarnation of his most powerful enemy. How does that not feel like an ending?
Well, besides the personal preference, it's not a definite ending, it does feel like a hiatus, I would be expecting a new arc after EoZ, sort of what GT picked up on, with Goku and Uub, grown Pan, etc, might want to see if Uub turns evil like Buu even. There is no emotion whatsoever, it's all hey i'm leaving, ok, bye, remember to call from time to time, sure, bye... it is the ending of the original run of the series we all love so much, I don't want some lukewarm joke that falls flat as a farewell, I want something with much more depth, I was moved many times throughout the show, I want to be moved again when my hero departs, is that too much to ask? something that sticks with you if it really is the end of the line and the material is right there, you just have to use it, like GT did: a show that pretty much sucks but you can't skip episode 64, you know there is nothing else after it, the characters know this is the end and you can grasp that, I could actually feel the loss, when he takes off(riding shenron or waving goobdbye 100 years later) you know you won't be seeing him again.

In EoZ well, Goku might return two weeks later because Uub developed faster than imagined or they were sparring and ended up in Mount Paozu, and actually comes back 5 years later(or 10 depending on the dub). The characters know he'll be back some day, tonight for dinner, next month for dinner, next year, or in GT.

And I'm not even factoring Super into this, EoZ is becoming less and less relevant and shall Super continue, it should be retconed or surpassed like it was just another training trip Goku took.
But anyway is just a personal preference, I prefer the more cinematographic ending I suppose, one that brings you to your knees.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 pm

But there is emotion. Goku is leaving so there's some sadness. He's leaving, but it's not permanent, so why would they be sadder than they are? The emotion is clearly happiness and excitement about the future. Goku enjoys the prospect of being able to fight the strongest being he ever faced again. Endings don't have to be closed and definitive for there to be a satisfying conclusion. It's fine if you don't like the ending, but it is an ending.
Him being an actual God.
So are Kami, Kaio, Dai Kaio, and Kaioshin. Being A god doesn't mean much in DB world.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 am

Count me in the camp that says End of Z works fantastically as an ending, but it's no more "definitive" than the ones in arcs before it, nor is Buu any more "definitive" a final boss than the ones before him. Hence why Toei were able to go straight into GT after it, and Toriyama was able to update it with the Kanzenban ending (Vegeta's "I'll surpass you Kakarot"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragon Ball Online's backstory (where Goku and Vegeta fly off into space to settle their rivalry) his as well?

Online and GT both work as closed book endings to Goku's story, but I think it's telling that we never got something that definitive in Toriyama's manga, nor is there any sign of getting one now that he's involved again with Super. I don't think that series will ever leave it's 10-year gap; it seems to have been set aside as a play area for him and the Dragon Room to do new stories in a risk-free setting. Some might balk at that, but my view is that Dragon Ball is a franchise, and has been that way for a long time, well before Super or Battle of Gods or Heroes, or GT or whatever you think the "shark-jumping" product was. Getting angry at it for not ending would be like getting angry at Dr Who, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or basically every Marvel and DC superhero comic series.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:20 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 am
Count me in the camp that says End of Z works fantastically as an ending, but it's no more "definitive" than the ones in arcs before it, nor is Buu any more "definitive" a final boss than the ones before him. Hence why Toei were able to go straight into GT after it, and Toriyama was able to update it with the Kanzenban ending (Vegeta's "I'll surpass you Kakarot"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragon Ball Online's backstory (where Goku and Vegeta fly off into space to settle their rivalry) his as well?

Online and GT both work as closed book endings to Goku's story, but I think it's telling that we never got something that definitive in Toriyama's manga, nor is there any sign of getting one now that he's involved again with Super. I don't think that series will ever leave it's 10-year gap; it seems to have been set aside as a play area for him and the Dragon Room to do new stories in a risk-free setting. Some might balk at that, but my view is that Dragon Ball is a franchise, and has been that way for a long time, well before Super or Battle of Gods or Heroes, or GT or whatever you think the "shark-jumping" product was. Getting angry at it for not ending would be like getting angry at Dr Who, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or basically every Marvel and DC superhero comic series.
But it's not set up like a superhero comic. It's a single continual story written by one author through it's massive run. Superhero comics were meant to have a beginning and an infinite middle with multiple authors all giving their own take and varying levels of continuity.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:42 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 am
Count me in the camp that says End of Z works fantastically as an ending, but it's no more "definitive" than the ones in arcs before it, nor is Buu any more "definitive" a final boss than the ones before him. Hence why Toei were able to go straight into GT after it, and Toriyama was able to update it with the Kanzenban ending (Vegeta's "I'll surpass you Kakarot"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragon Ball Online's backstory (where Goku and Vegeta fly off into space to settle their rivalry) his as well?

.
It is more “definitive” than most of the arcs. Only the first arc, the 23rd Budokai arc, Freeza arc, and Boo arc give any potential sort of ending.

I know people like to think the Cell arc is a good ending but unless you’re under the mistaken belief that Gohan was the main character it really isn’t.

The whole Vegeta still being on the whole “I’ll surpass you Kakarrotto!!!!” kick is pretty annoying when he was suppose to have accepted Goku was better than him.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:48 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:42 am
The whole Vegeta still being on the whole “I’ll surpass you Kakarrotto!!!!” kick is pretty annoying when he was suppose to have accepted Goku was better than him.
I'd have to read the specific context of Vegeta's quote, as in how he delivers the line. However, I think you're not quite there regarding what Vegeta's epiphany was about. It wasn't that Goku was better than him. It's that he can acknowledge it and it doesn't wound his pride to admit it. He can still use Goku as a goal to surpass, but now in a much healthier way. Vegeta's desire to be better than Goku isn't a contradiciton of his develpment.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:46 am

ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:20 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 am
Count me in the camp that says End of Z works fantastically as an ending, but it's no more "definitive" than the ones in arcs before it, nor is Buu any more "definitive" a final boss than the ones before him. Hence why Toei were able to go straight into GT after it, and Toriyama was able to update it with the Kanzenban ending (Vegeta's "I'll surpass you Kakarot"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragon Ball Online's backstory (where Goku and Vegeta fly off into space to settle their rivalry) his as well?

Online and GT both work as closed book endings to Goku's story, but I think it's telling that we never got something that definitive in Toriyama's manga, nor is there any sign of getting one now that he's involved again with Super. I don't think that series will ever leave it's 10-year gap; it seems to have been set aside as a play area for him and the Dragon Room to do new stories in a risk-free setting. Some might balk at that, but my view is that Dragon Ball is a franchise, and has been that way for a long time, well before Super or Battle of Gods or Heroes, or GT or whatever you think the "shark-jumping" product was. Getting angry at it for not ending would be like getting angry at Dr Who, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or basically every Marvel and DC superhero comic series.
But it's not set up like a superhero comic. It's a single continual story written by one author through it's massive run. Superhero comics were meant to have a beginning and an infinite middle with multiple authors all giving their own take and varying levels of continuity.
I disagree. While the manga was written by one person, it was never written with a clear beginning, middle and end that was planned from the beginning. Toriyama went by the seat of his pants and stopped when he got to the point he didn't want to do it any more.

And of course, while the manga was being written, there was an anime adaptation following it, with original specials, movies and filler that occasionally bled over into the manga itself (see Bardock). And of course that was immediately followed by GT, which picked up from where Toriyama left off, with his approval. That's the multiple authors with varying levels of continuity for you.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:52 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:46 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:20 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 am
Count me in the camp that says End of Z works fantastically as an ending, but it's no more "definitive" than the ones in arcs before it, nor is Buu any more "definitive" a final boss than the ones before him. Hence why Toei were able to go straight into GT after it, and Toriyama was able to update it with the Kanzenban ending (Vegeta's "I'll surpass you Kakarot"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragon Ball Online's backstory (where Goku and Vegeta fly off into space to settle their rivalry) his as well?

Online and GT both work as closed book endings to Goku's story, but I think it's telling that we never got something that definitive in Toriyama's manga, nor is there any sign of getting one now that he's involved again with Super. I don't think that series will ever leave it's 10-year gap; it seems to have been set aside as a play area for him and the Dragon Room to do new stories in a risk-free setting. Some might balk at that, but my view is that Dragon Ball is a franchise, and has been that way for a long time, well before Super or Battle of Gods or Heroes, or GT or whatever you think the "shark-jumping" product was. Getting angry at it for not ending would be like getting angry at Dr Who, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or basically every Marvel and DC superhero comic series.
But it's not set up like a superhero comic. It's a single continual story written by one author through it's massive run. Superhero comics were meant to have a beginning and an infinite middle with multiple authors all giving their own take and varying levels of continuity.
I disagree. While the manga was written by one person, it was never written with a clear beginning, middle and end that was planned from the beginning. Toriyama went by the seat of his pants and stopped when he got to the point he didn't want to do it any more.

And of course, while the manga was being written, there was an anime adaptation following it, with original specials, movies and filler that occasionally bled over into the manga itself (see Bardock). And of course that was immediately followed by GT, which picked up from where Toriyama left off, with his approval. That's the multiple authors with varying levels of continuity for you.
The ending doesn't need to be planned from the beginning for it to be inherently different. How is a planned ending important to this discussion? He's a pantser, but that's irrelevant. That says how he wrote it, but it has nothing to do with the actual story or its structure. When or why an author decides to end the story has no relevance on the issue about whether a story is meant to have an ending or it's designed to go into continuous publication.

Adaptation is a completely separate issue. It's all one story. Superhero comics from DC and Marvel are not. Things go in and out of continuity all the time, almost on a whim. It's not one story and continuity.

TMNT has multiple series all with their own interpretations and continuities.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:50 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:46 am
While the manga was written by one person, it was never written with a clear beginning, middle and end that was planned from the beginning. Toriyama went by the seat of his pants and stopped when he got to the point he didn't want to do it any more.
It doesn't matter how he wrote or whether or not he planned things out, DB still had a clear beginning (Pilaf arc) and a clear ending (Buu arc). It was written as a story firest, not a franchise. In terms of why he stopped, he said in a 2014 interview that he simply didn't think Goku could logically get any stronger. Based on how modern DB turned out, he was right, as the only way he's managed to make Goku stronger is to turn the Ssj forms into a parody of themselves by constantly changing his hair color. Another reaosn he may have ended the manga when he did was because every character had completed their arc so there was nowhere left to go as we're seeing with modern DB.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:37 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:52 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:46 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:20 am
But it's not set up like a superhero comic. It's a single continual story written by one author through it's massive run. Superhero comics were meant to have a beginning and an infinite middle with multiple authors all giving their own take and varying levels of continuity.
I disagree. While the manga was written by one person, it was never written with a clear beginning, middle and end that was planned from the beginning. Toriyama went by the seat of his pants and stopped when he got to the point he didn't want to do it any more.

And of course, while the manga was being written, there was an anime adaptation following it, with original specials, movies and filler that occasionally bled over into the manga itself (see Bardock). And of course that was immediately followed by GT, which picked up from where Toriyama left off, with his approval. That's the multiple authors with varying levels of continuity for you.
The ending doesn't need to be planned from the beginning for it to be inherently different. How is a planned ending important to this discussion? He's a pantser, but that's irrelevant. That says how he wrote it, but it has nothing to do with the actual story or its structure. When or why an author decides to end the story has no relevance on the issue about whether a story is meant to have an ending or it's designed to go into continuous publication.

Adaptation is a completely separate issue. It's all one story. Superhero comics from DC and Marvel are not. Things go in and out of continuity all the time, almost on a whim. It's not one story and continuity.

TMNT has multiple series all with their own interpretations and continuities.
And you're saying Dragon Ball doesn't have that? We have the original manga, which as I said took influence from the anime, we have the DB/DBZ anime, it's movies, filler arcs and spin-offs. We have GT. We have Heroes and everything that falls under that clusterfuck. Xenoverse has it's own continuity as well, plus games like Fusion and FighterZ which also have their own stories. And of course we have Super, which consists of movies, an anime and a manga, all with differences between them.
sintzu wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:50 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:46 am
While the manga was written by one person, it was never written with a clear beginning, middle and end that was planned from the beginning. Toriyama went by the seat of his pants and stopped when he got to the point he didn't want to do it any more.
It doesn't matter how he wrote or whether or not he planned things out, DB still had a clear beginning (Pilaf arc) and a clear ending (Buu arc). It was written as a story firest, not a franchise. In terms of why he stopped, he said in a 2014 interview that he simply didn't think Goku could logically get any stronger. Based on how modern DB turned out, he was right, as the only way he's managed to make Goku stronger is to turn the Ssj forms into a parody of themselves by constantly changing his hair color. Another reaosn he may have ended the manga when he did was because every character had completed their arc so there was nowhere left to go as we're seeing with modern DB.
And that just says it all doesn't it? He ended it because he ran out of stories to tell, now he's back because they have more stories to tell. That's the kind of series this is- it isn't the Count of Monte Cristo, where the idea of a sequel would be unthinkable because it ends with total closure. The original manga ending worked fine as an ending, but it was also a completely open "and the adventure continues" affair. Toriyama's own addition to the Kanzenban confirms this- he doesn't strictly see it as a definitive ending (though he also isn't interested in writing past it at this stage, either due to personal preference or out of respect for GT) but as just the point where he stopped. And he clearly had no problem with Toei continuing on immediately afterward with GT.

That's what I'm saying- this is a franchise, it has been for a while and will keep going that way.
Last edited by Kataphrut on Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DB's ending

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:41 pm

The influence of the anime on the original story is minimal and beside the point. Adaptations are a completely separate matter. Super is a continuation of Toriyama's story. It's not someone else putting their spin on DB. This is the same as another show runner taking over a series they didn't start. What you're talking about is still nothing like DC and Marvel. The main "continuity" of the comics is constantly being changed and authors are reinterpreting the characters sometimes radically. DB is still DB. There are non-canon films and filler, but that's not the same because the core of DB is the original manga which is all one story. Even the filler is supposed to take place within the continuity.

It's ridiculous to imply the only ending is one with total closure. Terminator 2 gave the story total closure and they keep going back to that damn well. Being an open ending doesn't mean there's not total closure. All the character arcs and plot threads were wrapped up in DB. Sometimes a so-called open ending is the most appropriate given the theme(s) of the story.

I understand what you're saying, but understand that turning it into a never ending franchise isn't to its benefit. The taffy is being pulled further and further. Before it was just a long running series, now it's never ending and the story is spinning its wheels.
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Re: DB's ending

Post by sintzu » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:08 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:37 pm
He ended it because he ran out of stories to tell.

Now he's back because they have more stories to tell.

Toriyama's own addition to the Kanzenban confirms this- he doesn't strictly see it as a definitive ending.

He clearly had no problem with Toei continuing on immediately afterward with GT.

This is a franchise, it has been for a while and will keep going that way.
Isn't that the reason every author ends their work ? They have certain stories to tell and once they're told the work ends.

He's back because he doesn't want another DB Evolution on his hands. He's not the only writer or even the one coming up with the ideas, he's simply working as a guide for everyone involved. He's helping Toyotaro work on his manga, he's writing movies based on the plot points given to him by Toei, he's helping out with the games, etc.

He said he changed it to better get across the idea that Goku's adventures were over and to make the ending overall feel more definitive.

GT has nothing to do with the original DB manga being a completed story with a beginning and an ending. That's like saying the lord of the rings isn't a story first because it gets adapted in movies, TV, Games, etc.

That doesn't change the fact that the original manga was written as a story first and everything came second. DB is a franchise now but when Toriyama was originally writing it, all he thought about was the story.
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