Can we consider Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr the same person?

[Piccolo_Daima]

No, actual reincarnation is the Buu/Uub case. Buu died, Enma-Daio did his trick, then there is Uub.

Piccolo Daimaoh spit an egg, from the egg came another being (or are Drum and others also Piccolo Daimaoh's reincarnation too?). That's simply called "asexual reproduction", no intervention from someone else is played here.

If Piccolo jr and Daimao weren't the same person, then Kami would have died when Goku killed Daimao

[KillerCory]

In my opinion I think it is both. He is both the father and the son. This is why he shares a connection with Kami.

Remember... Piccolo Daimao is the pure evil split from the original Namek that forgot his name. When Daimao gave birth to his son he may have made him in his image (a clone if you will) but it would be impossible for him to transfer his entire being into him because he (Daimao) continued to exist (very briefly) after this. Some part of him was left behind and died (in an explosive fashion ). As for Daimao's soul; I would like to think it went to limbo and stayed there forever.

So Piccolo Jr is not an exact copy and also grows up in a different world than his "father" did. His "father" was born within the original Namek after seeing much war and chaos. Piccolo Jr didn't see such horrors as the world at this time is mostly unified. Jr just grew up with a mission to kill Goku. Jr may even fully believe that he is Daimao but it doesn't mean he is. While he is still evil he is not PURE evil like Daimao and this allows him to eventually change for the better.

[MyVisionity]

Yes, but it's still the character's full name as presented by the author. When the characters refer to simply "Daimao", we know who they mean. It's both a title and a name. Just like with all of the similarly named characters in the series, and fiction in general.

It's not a name then , it's no different than Vegeta's title of "Saiyan prince" people know him for. That Piccolo Jr. calls himself the Demon King (very sparingly, by the way) isn't evidence of him being the same person as his father as it's just a title. As his son he is entitled to adopt that title.

Except no one calls Vegeta "Prince Vegeta", because it's not the character's name. In his case, you are correct that it's only a title. Daimao on the other hand is both a title and the character's name. Just like with Gyuu-mao, Kame-sennin/Roshi, Uranai Baba, Kaio, etc.

It's true that Ma Junior calling himself Daimao isn't necessarily proof of him being the same person, however it's unmistakable that he and the other characters refer to him as "Piccolo Daimao" from the 23rd Budoukai into the Z-era. Even if it gradually lessens over time.

[Grimlock]

If Piccolo Jr and Daimao aren't the same being, then Kami would have died when Daimao was killed by Goku.

If Piccolo jr and Daimao weren't the same person, then Kami would have died when Goku killed Daimao

I mean, you can keep using the same arguments over and over. We're still not getting anywhere because there are evidences for both sides. You're willingly refusing to acknowledge Piccolo's referring him as "father" and Kami correcting himself by distinguishing Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo.

Like I said, the connection between Kami and Piccolo Daimaoh may have been transferred to Piccolo once the former died, which would explain why Kami was still alive. When Piccolo died in Saiyan saga, it was shown Kami dying too, proving that the connection was "inherited"/passed onto Piccolo.

[ABED]

If Piccolo Jr and Daimao aren't the same being, then Kami would have died when Daimao was killed by Goku.

If Piccolo jr and Daimao weren't the same person, then Kami would have died when Goku killed Daimao

I mean, you can keep using the same arguments over and over like a broken record. We're still not getting anywhere because there are evidences for both sides. You're willingly refusing to acknowledge Piccolo's referring him as "father" and Kami correcting himself by distinguishing Piccolo Daimaoh and Piccolo.

Like I said, the connection between Kami and Piccolo Daimaoh may have been transferred to Piccolo once the former died, which would explain why Kami was still alive. When Piccolo died in Saiyan saga, it was shown Kami dying too, proving that the connection was "inherited"/passed onto Piccolo.

We aren't saying they are either/or, we're saying he's BOTH.

[Michsi]

Except no one calls Vegeta "Prince Vegeta", because it's not the character's name. In his case, you are correct that it's only a title. Daimao on the other hand is both a title and the character's name. Just like with Gyuu-mao, Kame-sennin/Roshi, Uranai Baba, Kaio, etc.

It's true that Ma Junior calling himself Daimao isn't necessarily proof of him being the same person, however it's unmistakable that he and the other characters refer to him as "Piccolo Daimao" from the 23rd Budoukai into the Z-era. Even if it gradually lessens over time.

Who calls calls Piccolo "Daimao"? And regardless of whether or not functions as a title or name, none of that proves that Piccolo Jr. is the same individual as his father, since names can be passed down too.

Again, the King Piccolo refers to him as "son" when addressing Piccolo Jr. before he dies and Piccolo Jr. in turn uses "father". This is the one and only time they refer to one another and those are the terms they use.

[ABED]

Why not only call him son if he's not both? Why use the word reincarnation?

[MyVisionity]

Again, the King Piccolo refers to him as "son" when addressing Piccolo Jr. before he dies and Piccolo Jr. in turn uses "father". This is the one and only time they refer to one another and those are the terms they use.

I agree that they are father and son. However, in this case the son was made to be a near-copy of the father. Hence the "reincarnation" label. He may be a different person, but there is enough about him that mirrors his father to have that label.

[Piccolo_Daima]

Except no one calls Vegeta "Prince Vegeta", because it's not the character's name. In his case, you are correct that it's only a title. Daimao on the other hand is both a title and the character's name. Just like with Gyuu-mao, Kame-sennin/Roshi, Uranai Baba, Kaio, etc.

It's true that Ma Junior calling himself Daimao isn't necessarily proof of him being the same person, however it's unmistakable that he and the other characters refer to him as "Piccolo Daimao" from the 23rd Budoukai into the Z-era. Even if it gradually lessens over time.

Who calls calls Piccolo "Daimao"? And regardless of whether or not functions as a title or name, none of that proves that Piccolo Jr. is the same individual as his father, since names can be passed down too.

Again, the King Piccolo refers to him as "son" when addressing Piccolo Jr. before he dies and Piccolo Jr. in turn uses "father". This is the one and only time they refer to one another and those are the terms they use.

Piccolo uses the term "reincarnation" most of the times he refers to Daimao.

[Piccolo_Daima]

Except no one calls Vegeta "Prince Vegeta", because it's not the character's name. In his case, you are correct that it's only a title. Daimao on the other hand is both a title and the character's name. Just like with Gyuu-mao, Kame-sennin/Roshi, Uranai Baba, Kaio, etc.

It's true that Ma Junior calling himself Daimao isn't necessarily proof of him being the same person, however it's unmistakable that he and the other characters refer to him as "Piccolo Daimao" from the 23rd Budoukai into the Z-era. Even if it gradually lessens over time.

Who calls calls Piccolo "Daimao"? And regardless of whether or not functions as a title or name, none of that proves that Piccolo Jr. is the same individual as his father, since names can be passed down too.

Again, the King Piccolo refers to him as "son" when addressing Piccolo Jr. before he dies and Piccolo Jr. in turn uses "father". This is the one and only time they refer to one another and those are the terms they use.

Piccolo uses the term "reincarnation" most of the times he refers to Daimao.

[Piccolo_Daima]

You say it's poor excuses but I'm quoting evidence from other scenes in the story. As said numerous times in this thread, mainly by ABED, it's both. Jr. is both the father Daimao and his own individual, and there's a lot of evidence to support that idea because of the way both the manga and anime seem to flip-flop and transition on the subject. In my opinion, Jr. starts out as basically Daimao, but over time he grows into his own person who rejects the mission given by his predecessor. And for me the fact that Jr. even has a conscience and has such a unique bond with Gohan proves he's different because Daimao would never have been capable of that.

.

Come on man, If Daimao had spent 5 years readying himself to beat Goku, then got beat by him, then Goku spared him, and now he's just spent 5 years waiting around, and now he has to ally with Goku's son to stop a greater threat for basically an entire year... An 11-year span like that can change someone like that. In the 10 years leading up to Raditz's arrival, Piccolo had basically been alone to meditate on his ways, his failures, etc. Presumably, this along with his fairly isolated upbringing changed him quite a lot. And he was with Gohan for a year...

Also if then Daimao had fused with pure heart namekians like Nail and Kami, he would have become in a good namekian.

[KBABZ]

Come on man, If Daimao had spent 5 years readying himself to beat Goku, then got beat by him, then Goku spared him, and now he's just spent 5 years waiting around, and now he has to ally with Goku's son to stop a greater threat for basically an entire year... An 11-year span like that can change someone like that. In the 10 years leading up to Raditz's arrival, Piccolo had basically been alone to meditate on his ways, his failures, etc. Presumably, this along with his fairly isolated upbringing changed him quite a lot. And he was with Gohan for a year...

You're talking about the guy who held a grudge against martial artists and rice cookers for hundreds of years.

[Michsi]

Come on man, If Daimao had spent 5 years readying himself to beat Goku, then got beat by him, then Goku spared him, and now he's just spent 5 years waiting around, and now he has to ally with Goku's son to stop a greater threat for basically an entire year... An 11-year span like that can change someone like that. In the 10 years leading up to Raditz's arrival, Piccolo had basically been alone to meditate on his ways, his failures, etc. Presumably, this along with his fairly isolated upbringing changed him quite a lot. And he was with Gohan for a year...

You're talking about the guy who held a grudge against martial artists and rice cookers for hundreds of years.

Not to mention that we find out through Gohan that Goku believed Piccolo Jr. was different from the old Demon King from the first time they met.

And from a personal perspective, I also think that Piccolo Jr. acted very differently from his father when fighting Goku. I don't think King Piccolo would've played around like that for the sake of the tournament.

[ABED]

No, but he did murder a city full of people without a second thought. He began changing, but he's still very much his father/his old self.

[Michsi]

No, but he did murder a city full of people without a second thought. He began changing, but he's still very much his father/his old self.

Actually he didn't. We find out through Chaozu that everyone evacuated. That is one of the things I was referring to as him being different. I think the old Demon King would've not let everyone escape the way Jr. did when they found out who he is. The old Demon King enjoyed gratuitous cruelty and would've attempted something.

[ABED]

No, but he did murder a city full of people without a second thought. He began changing, but he's still very much his father/his old self.

Actually he didn't. We find out through Chaozu that everyone evacuated. That is one of the things I was referring to as him being different. I think the old Demon King would've not let everyone escape the way Jr. did when they found out who he is. The old Demon King enjoyed gratuitous cruelty and would've attempted something.

To that I call bullshit. Even if that was in the original, it's as stupid as everyone evacuating the city before Nappa's blast after they arrived on Earth. NO WAY IN HELL was everyone off the island. How did everyone leave the city within a few minutes? Even assuming it was true, Piccolo doesn't care nor does he know. How the hell did Chaozu know?

[KBABZ]

No, but he did murder a city full of people without a second thought. He began changing, but he's still very much his father/his old self.

Actually he didn't. We find out through Chaozu that everyone evacuated. That is one of the things I was referring to as him being different. I think the old Demon King would've not let everyone escape the way Jr. did when they found out who he is. The old Demon King enjoyed gratuitous cruelty and would've attempted something.

To that I call bullshit. Even if that was in the original, it's as stupid as everyone evacuating the city before Nappa's blast after they arrived on Earth. NO WAY IN HELL was everyone off the island. How did everyone leave the city within a few minutes? Even assuming it was true, Piccolo doesn't care nor does he know. How the hell did Chaozu know?

My personal thought behind that is, when Jr. made it known that he was Daimao's reincarnation and intended to take over the world, the word quickly spread and everyone on Papaya Island evacuated. THAT BEING SAID, Jr.'s intent was to wipe out Goku with no concern over collateral damage, and so by proxy was almost certainly expecting to kill everyone on the island in the process.

[ABED]

I get it, word spread quickly, but the time it takes to evacuate a city of that size even if everyone had access to either a boat or a plane, it would take entirely too long. I have no idea why Toriyama would try to claim everyone was off the island. He doesn't shy away from mass casualties. But as you said, it's clear that Piccolo didn't care. Why cause a blast that big if all he was after was Goku and maybe his friends. He doesn't know Goku can fly.

[Michsi]

I get it, word spread quickly, but the time it takes to evacuate a city of that size even if everyone had access to either a boat or a plane, it would take entirely too long. I have no idea why Toriyama would try to claim everyone was off the island. He doesn't shy away from mass casualties. But as you said, it's clear that Piccolo didn't care. Why cause a blast that big if all he was after was Goku and maybe his friends. He doesn't know Goku can fly.

I'm not gonna get into technicalities (yes, in RL that would be impossible) but if iIrc Toriyama stated he decided Piccolo Jr. would stick around pretty much from the time he first designed so he was probably careful not to have him do stuff that would make him irredeemable.

There are a lot of weird stuff like this in DB- if we can accept Goku using a magic pole to put someone on the moon or blowing up the moon not having grave consequences to the Earth, I think we can easily accept this.

[MasenkoHA]

There are a lot of weird stuff like this in DB- if we can accept Goku using a magic pole to put someone on the moon or blowing up the moon not having grave consequences to the Earth, I think we can easily accept this.

I don’t get this comparison at all.

There’s a world of difference between Goku has magic compliant staff that can extend at his command and Roshi has enough mastery over his chi to annihilate the moon and all these people survived a giant explosion in less than 3 minutes.


Fantastical elements is not a “Get out of insulting your audience intelligence” free card.