DB could work as Cartoon Series?

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Gligarman
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Gligarman » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:12 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:07 pm
I don't think the violence is the heart of the matter, nor is it the vulgarity. Remember, DB is a kids' show. The true charm is how it blends a lot of different genres, mixes it with Toriyama's sense of humor and subverts expectations. While Muten Roshi a perv is part of what subverts the trope of the wise old martial arts master, he's also lazy and not very serious much of the time. That's the essence of DB, not the trappings of violence and sex jokes. If you downplay them, DB is still DB.
But if you remove them entirely, you have a different show. Hence why they've had to redub DB multiple times to get rid of numerous rewrites. Toriyama's writing style is very unique and I don't think it can be replicated, certainly not in an American cartoon. If you're gonna make a different show, make a different show. Why remake something that's fine the way it is?

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:41 pm

The violence can be toned down to fit American broadcast standards and still be DB, especially these days. The vulgarity was never what made DB what it was. It's not a defining feature. I'm not suggesting this thread's idea is a good one, but simply that the heart of DB is not what you've claimed. Toning down the violence wasn't the dub's cardinal sin. The star over the punches to the face was asinine, but what really was the issue was trying to make DB a western superhero story instead of a Japanese martial arts fantasy. The Asian elements were either downplayed or wholely absent.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Gligarman » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:53 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:41 pm
The violence can be toned down to fit American broadcast standards and still be DB, especially these days. The vulgarity was never what made DB what it was. It's not a defining feature. I'm not suggesting this thread's idea is a good one, but simply that the heart of DB is not what you've claimed. Toning down the violence wasn't the dub's cardinal sin. The star over the punches to the face was asinine, but what really was the issue was trying to make DB a western superhero story instead of a Japanese martial arts fantasy. The Asian elements were either downplayed or wholely absent.
I'm thoroughly convinced that would happen if it were an American cartoon as well. It simply wouldn't work. Also I can't stand any form of censorship. The moment something has to be altered to fit American broadcast standards or marketability is the moment the show becomes something that it wasn't intended to be. But I agree that trying to make Goku into a super hero was probably the biggest mistake they made.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:36 pm

I remember reports of an western animated series based on DBE like 10 years ago. I think we doge a bullet right there.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:35 pm

Gligarman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:12 pm
Why remake something that's fine the way it is?
Why not?

It's okay to have different versions of things existing at the same time. Additionally, for the sake of creativity, for the sake of art itself, couldn't another version of Dragon Ball be made? The human brain can be explored and stimulated in any countless numbers of ways. Why not take full advantage of what's to offer within a single body of work?

You may not be able to replicate the original, no, but you can draw inspiration from it to go into new and different directions.
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:36 pm
I remember reports of an western animated series based on DBE like 10 years ago. I think we doge a bullet right there.
That may have turned out to be another case where the cartoon is better than the film it was adapted from. With the right people on board, it might have clicked.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:38 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:36 pm
I remember reports of an western animated series based on DBE like 10 years ago. I think we doge a bullet right there.
That's an example of how not to do things. To be fair, the movie was so bad that even something based on it couldn't be any worse. Gligarman does bring up a good point about censorship (Which is also a problem in Japan now as seen with the HD movies) so whoever potentially makes a Western DB would have t find a way to get passed it such as having it be a Netflix series.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:57 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:35 pm
Gligarman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:12 pm
Why remake something that's fine the way it is?
Why not?
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by ABED » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:51 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:35 pm
You may not be able to replicate the original, no, but you can draw inspiration from it to go into new and different directions.
DB started off as more or less a parody of "Journey to the West", so why not just make something new but also takes inspiration from DB? Why do a remake?
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:00 pm

Dragon Ball has already been a cartoon series..

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:16 pm

power rangers / super sentai, godzilla and astro boy managed to adapt well ... despite the difference of cultures
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:00 pm
Dragon Ball has already been a cartoon series..
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 pm

I believe what the OP is asking is whether or not a Dragon Ball series could work using the style of American animation.
this ... :think:

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Godzilla is known well in the west mainly because it was a cheap import and made for fun viewing in an era where you had to watch whatever was on TV. His popularity is driven more by supply than demand.

Power Rangers is for all intents and purposes a different series than Super Sentai.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Teclo » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 pm

A lot of casual fans say they always thought it was an American cartoon. Maybe I would have as well if I hadn't read an article about in a gaming mag before I ever saw it. The question doesn't seem to be about it being an American cartoon per se; it's not as if other countries don't do that style of animation too. It's really just "what about DB in a different art style?" But then you have the question: what particular style of western animation? Like Ren and Stimpy? The Simpsons (I guess Bart has SSJ hair himself...)? Gravity Falls? Mulan? Enter the Spiderverse? Clearly some would work better than others.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:58 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:21 pm
make a movie of dragon ball live action is very difficult because of the fantastic and very different world that the series has so it is that that only the animation could do and taking into account how popular the series in other countries so could be an adaptation of DB as series or movie with cartoon style

Do you think the style would fit or not? Could they capture the essence of the series?
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Teclo wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 pm
A lot of casual fans say they always thought it was an American cartoon.
Casual fans or just stupid?

Because I honestly don’t think I’ve ever known some one over the age of like 7 who didn’t know it was an anime especially with how it wears it’s eastern roots on its sleeves. Even in the first grade I picked up on it’s distinctively Asian style. And that’s not some brag that’s just how incredibly damn obvious that DBZ came from the land of the rising sun no matter how much Funimation liked to pretend otherwise.

But then you have the question: what particular style of western animation? Like Ren and Stimpy? The Simpsons (I guess Bart has SSJ hair himself...)? Gravity Falls? Mulan? Enter the Spiderverse? Clearly some would work better than others.
The whole premise of this thread is murky because again Dragon Ball is already a cartoon and like you said there isn’t a specific Western style of animation.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Teclo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:42 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:59 pm
Teclo wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:17 pm
A lot of casual fans say they always thought it was an American cartoon.
Casual fans or just stupid?

Because I honestly don’t think I’ve ever known some one over the age of like 7 who didn’t know it was an anime especially with how it wears it’s eastern roots on its sleeves. Even in the first grade I picked up on it’s distinctively Asian style. And that’s not some brag that’s just how incredibly damn obvious that DBZ came from the land of the rising sun no matter how much Funimation liked to pretend otherwise.
But to be fair, by the same logic, Avatar the Last Airbender is "obviously anime" because of its vaguely anime art-style and East Asian elements. Yet anyone who assumed Avatar was actually anime would be equally as "dumb" as someone who assumed DBZ was American, despite the assumption being based on the same elements. And on that note, back when Avatar was still running, it was common to see it in anime sections in DVD shops. Though neither of those things is as just plain wrong as Nintendo putting Ace Attorney in the RPG section of their eShop - but that's a whole other tangent, it just came to mind due to the idea of stupid mix-ups.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Rory » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:02 am

Sure, cartoons have never looked so diverse, stylistically. I can't see how Dragon Ball wouldn't be able to be visually translated, whilst keeping the integrity/flavour of the original.

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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:16 pm
power rangers / super sentai, godzilla and astro boy managed to adapt well ... despite the difference of cultures
For Godzilla if we take the Legendary 2014 movie yes, but Astro Boy nope and Power Rangers its arguable here the beef I have with Power Rangers is since I am well versed into Super Sentai I can see clearly when it's the japanese footage and that's make me cringe. I wish Power Rangers by now used just the suit and be 100% its own thing.

For example the Power Rangers comics are a hell heck of awesome.

For the rest of adaptation Saint Seiya by Netflix is pure trash, Death Note was utter garbage, Dragon Ball Evolution is well an heresy. Oh I can put in there too Robotech made by Harmony Stupid Gold. Macross > Robotech trash.
MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:35 pm
Why not?
Because remake is a lazy trend that Hollywood need to stop (looking at you Disney with your Live Action Boring remake) I'm fed up of remake and reboot and other stuff. Create new things instead. Though I will give just one pass ticket to the MCU with Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and the X-Men since the compagny that made those movies were not really Marvel in the first place.

As for the topic of this discussion I give a strong No.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:07 pm

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:00 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:16 pm
power rangers / super sentai, godzilla and astro boy managed to adapt well ... despite the difference of cultures
For Godzilla if we take the Legendary 2014 movie yes, but Astro Boy nope and Power Rangers its arguable here the beef I have with Power Rangers is since I am well versed into Super Sentai I can see clearly when it's the japanese footage and that's make me cringe. I wish Power Rangers by now used just the suit and be 100% its own thing.

For example the Power Rangers comics are a hell heck of awesome.

For the rest of adaptation Saint Seiya by Netflix is pure trash, Death Note was utter garbage, Dragon Ball Evolution is well an heresy. Oh I can put in there too Robotech made by Harmony Stupid Gold. Macross > Robotech trash.
MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:35 pm
Why not?
Because remake is a lazy trend that Hollywood need to stop (looking at you Disney with your Live Action Boring remake) I'm fed up of remake and reboot and other stuff. Create new things instead. Though I will give just one pass ticket to the MCU with Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and the X-Men since the compagny that made those movies were not really Marvel in the first place.

As for the topic of this discussion I give a strong No.
You are not Power Rangers' target audience. It is a show aimed at VERY young children. Also, it's not an adaptation of Super Sentai. It uses some of the footage, but it's its own series by and large.

Remakes aren't a trend. They aren't new.

As for the topic at hand, they did make an Americanized version of DB. It's the original dub.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:42 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:07 pm
You are not Power Rangers' target audience.
So because I am not the target audience I can't critize it ? Also I know very well the story behind Power Rangers its inception and how that was made by Haim Saban. I am a Tokusatsu fan since the 80's since I watched show like Uchuu Keiji Gavan, Choudenshi Bioman and Uchu kara no messeji: Ginga taisen to name a few.

I said just that Power Rangers if given the right amount of time, money and ressource could detash himself at 100% from Super Sentai material and become its own thing whilst still aiming for its target audience. Look at the comics with all the Original Rangers they've made and not only the comics The Titanium Rangers from Power Rangers: Lightspeed Rescue was an 100% original American Power Rangers that was not based on Japan material.

Some Fun Facts, Super Sentai was created with the collaboration of Marvel. Battle Fever J was the first Super Sentai and conceived at first as Team of Captain Americas like Super Heroes fighting in Japan. The idea of the Giant robot was reprise from the Tokusatsu Spider-Man TV Show (also a Marvel and Toei collaboration. Hence withtout Marvel/Toei collaboration in the 70/80's Super Sentai wouldn't have been a thing nor Power Rangers. Also Stan Lee wanted to adapt the Super Sentai show for american audience long before Haim Saban with Sun Vulcan. At one point Disney owned Power Rangers before Haim Saban brought the licence back, now Disney own Marvel which helped creates Super Sentai (Disney almost have them both).
ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:07 pm
Remakes aren't a trend. They aren't new.
And because they aren't new do we have to congratulate this method ? Let's not encourage laziness.
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Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:39 am

If it's a shot for shot remake, that's lazy, but remakes and reboots, and sequels/prequels, etc. aren't inherently lazy. The best reason to remake or reboot something is to either take an idea that wasn't well done but the idea was good OR update the story through a modern or just a different perspective. There are plenty of good or even great remakes. For instance, True Lies is an awesome remake, and so is the US version of The Office.
So because I am not the target audience I can't critize it ?
You're complaining about a kids' show having different elements that are obvious to an adult! Of course they are. They aren't necessarily to kids nor would they care even if they knew. It shouldn't detatch itself from the very thing that created it. It would be dumb. And the whole point of Power Rangers is that it's cheap to produce. It's part of the aesthetic. And what's "the right amount"? As I see it, to produce a Power Rangers show without any Sentai footage would be cost prohibitive.

Please stop bringing up the comic book. Comics are cheap to produce even compared to Power Rangers which was made for precisely that reason. It's cheap.

As for an American remake of DB, it would be DB in name only. It's hard enough convincing fans of the series that DB isn't a superhero story. I doubt anyone adapting/remaking it would get that.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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