DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Jackalope89
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:13 am

No. The animation style does NOT need to change!

Here's a grand idea; clean up the original series a bit, make it HD, and THEN re-air it.

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6076
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am

That laugh perfectly sums up the situation of Dragon Ball Super. It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they can't come up with more elaborated plot, they can't explore, they miss opportunities, they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series. But it's really sad to see people who are satisfied with so little, and seemingly can't see the high level of quality in their content that both Ben 10 and Avatar surely present.
Modern Dragon Ball in a nutshell
Psajdak wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:45 pm
Everything is for the sake of enjoyment, and nostalgia, no one cares about plot

SSJgogeto
Regular
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by SSJgogeto » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:00 am

I don't think innovations are necessarily good. Heroes is a great example of this.

With that said, IMO yes, DB could work as a cartoon series, there's some good cartoons over there. However, things have to be done correctly because there's also a lot of crap over there.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:13 am

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series.
That's what fans want though. Toei isn't in the business of being creative, they're in it for the $$$ only. Based on Broly's massive success, fans clearly want the same, safe nostalgic content they're used to from the past.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5300
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am

sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:13 am
Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series.
That's what fans want though. Toei isn't in the business of being creative, they're in it for the $$$ only. Based on Broly's massive success, fans clearly want the same, safe nostalgic content they're used to from the past.
Sadly. You would think these fans would get tired of the same shit over and over, but I guess not.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am

Isn't Dragon Ball already a cartoon? At least in the parameter of an animated show that has demographic of children? It's no more or less of a cartoon now than it was back in the 1980s and 1990s.

User avatar
PremiumSalt
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by PremiumSalt » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 am

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
That laugh perfectly sums up the situation of Dragon Ball Super. It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they can't come up with more elaborated plot, they can't explore, they miss opportunities, they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series. But it's really sad to see people who are satisfied with so little, and seemingly can't see the high level of quality in their content that both Ben 10 and Avatar surely present.
I fundamentally disagree with this notion you seem to have about Super. Frankly, if massively expanding the series' lore by introducing the multiverse isn't originality to you, I don't know what is. The only arcs in Super up to this point that have relied heavily on nostalgia have been the Resurrection 'F' and Broly arcs, and even then the Broly arc completely reinvented the character.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Tournament of Power 8. 21st Budōkai 9. Broly 10. Battle of Gods 11. Boo 12. U6 Tournament 13. Freeza 14. Red Ribbon Army 15. Artificial Humans/Cell 16.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 pm

PremiumSalt wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 am
If massively expanding the series' lore by introducing the multiverse isn't originality to you, I don't know what is.

Broly completely reinvented the character.
The concept is original but they've done nothing with those universes. Universes 2, 3, 4, 9, & 10 were completely wasted. U11 wasn't much better. U6 is just a mirror version of U7. The TOP was mostly just random character designs fighting U7. They had a villain from U10 in the FT arc but instead of going to U10 and introducing new and original characters, we were stuck in Trunks' timeline with the main villain being an evil Goku. Is that honestly the best they could think to do with U10 ?

The Broly movie is nothing more than an altered version of M8 and in some aspects, it's actually worse.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Tai Lung
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am
sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:13 am
Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series.
That's what fans want though. Toei isn't in the business of being creative, they're in it for the $$$ only. Based on Broly's massive success, fans clearly want the same, safe nostalgic content they're used to from the past.
Sadly. You would think these fans would get tired of the same shit over and over, but I guess not.
sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:13 am
Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series.
That's what fans want though. Toei isn't in the business of being creative, they're in it for the $$$ only. Based on Broly's massive success, fans clearly want the same, safe nostalgic content they're used to from the past.
Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am
That laugh perfectly sums up the situation of Dragon Ball Super. It's laughable that in 2019 we keep getting the same shit; they can't come up with more elaborated plot, they can't explore, they miss opportunities, they don't change, they are stuck in the safe zone, nostalgia and popularity are the main and only driving force in this series. But it's really sad to see people who are satisfied with so little,
even though I'm against "the traditional is better" and think that new writers (not Japanese) could benefit DB ...
We are exaggerating too much zamasu arc, TOP arc, BoG arc are original

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am

and seemingly can't see the high level of quality in their content that both Ben 10 and Avatar surely present.
and I've seen ben 10 and I do not think so ... too corny and correct they're too limited in CN

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:47 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm
We are exaggerating too much zamasu arc, TOP arc, BoG arc are original
BOG is original, the most and probably only original thing we'll get out of this revival.

The Zamasu arc is basically the Cell arc as both have 2 villains messing up Trunks' timeline and he has to go back in time to get help from the past.

The TOP is just random character designs with the same exact personality fighting U7. It wasn't something that they did before but it wasn't good either. The problem is that it was the kind of arc that required years of build up to work and they didn't want to spend the time.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
PremiumSalt
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by PremiumSalt » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 pm

sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:47 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm
We are exaggerating too much zamasu arc, TOP arc, BoG arc are original
BOG is original, the most and probably only original thing we'll get out of this revival.

The Zamasu arc is basically the Cell arc as both have 2 villains messing up Trunks' timeline and he has to go back in time to get help from the past.

The TOP is just random character designs with the same exact personality fighting U7. It wasn't something that they did before but it wasn't good either. The problem is that it was the kind of arc that required years of build up to work and they didn't want to spend the time.
If we're gonna play that game, then basically every arc since the Piccolo Daimao arc has ripped off that arc in one form or another, most commonly the "Goku is removed from the plot for some contrived reason to create tension" trope. I guess Z is pretty unoriginal too then, huh?
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Tournament of Power 8. 21st Budōkai 9. Broly 10. Battle of Gods 11. Boo 12. U6 Tournament 13. Freeza 14. Red Ribbon Army 15. Artificial Humans/Cell 16.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:10 pm

PremiumSalt wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 pm
If we're gonna play that game, then basically every arc since the Piccolo Daimao arc has ripped off that arc in one form or another, most commonly the "Goku is removed from the plot for some contrived reason to create tension" trope. I guess Z is pretty unoriginal too then, huh?
You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't you ? If that's the best you can come up with and believe then I guess we can agree to disagree.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Tai Lung
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:26 pm

sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:47 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm
We are exaggerating too much zamasu arc, TOP arc, BoG arc are original
BOG is original, the most and probably only original thing we'll get out of this revival.

The Zamasu arc is basically the Cell arc as both have 2 villains messing up Trunks' timeline and he has to go back in time to get help from the past.

The TOP is just random character designs with the same exact personality fighting U7. It wasn't something that they did before but it wasn't good either. The problem is that it was the kind of arc that required years of build up to work and they didn't want to spend the time.
if you summarize it, so anything is a copy since you overlook all the content

zamasu is very different from cell in both personality and objective. The difference is that zamasu if he has a goal in the first place and as he is not happy with the passive role that he has played in the universe in spite of being a god, is sure the villain more complex than the previous ones.
Goku Black was to establish a mystery that never happened with Cell because they immediately tell you who he is.
of the timeline of trunks do not really know much, so we explored that a bit.
that apart from that zamasu arc closed the subplot of trunks
What do have in common? the travel in time? because really the only one who was traveling in the time was trunks never before other characters
---------------------------

really the charm that the tournament of power has is to have 80 fighters gathered which would show different skills and strategies, teamwork and interactions between them in addition to eliminations

added new things? yes, besides including several characters, he added types of fights totally different to the series and that is much for a series that quickly lost the battle strategy from z
being hit vs dyspo a clear example, also includes a new development for old and new characters apart from interactions of characters who had never spoken.

so yes I would say that you exaggerate and much.

Dragon Ball Ireland
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1797
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Kildare, Ireland

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am
Isn't Dragon Ball already a cartoon? At least in the parameter of an animated show that has demographic of children? It's no more or less of a cartoon now than it was back in the 1980s and 1990s.
I think people try too much to distinguish anime from American animated shows by labelling the latter as cartoons but not the former. Moreover, "Cartoon" is often used perjoratively when in actuality its the same as all other forms of art, some is good, some is bad, etc.

I believe what the OP is asking is whether or not a Dragon Ball series could work using the style of American animation.
Selling
- Arrival DVD single
- Betrayal DVD single

Looking For
- Funimation Level 1.2 Replacement Cover
- Showdown DVD single

If interested PM with offers

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6076
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:34 pm

PremiumSalt wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 am
I fundamentally disagree with this notion you seem to have about Super. Frankly, if massively expanding the series' lore by introducing the multiverse isn't originality to you, I don't know what is. The only arcs in Super up to this point that have relied heavily on nostalgia have been the Resurrection 'F' and Broly arcs, and even then the Broly arc completely reinvented the character.
What!? For having introduced the Multiverse concept is one of things I commend them the most. You may want to take a closer look at my "review" posts. That said, it was actually Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods that introduced the Multiverse, not Dragon Ball Super, so I won't give credit to that series for that. After all, here comes the next problem of that series, it didn't know how to expand and explore the Multiverse properly. All it did was crap tournaments. Future Trunks saga dealt with just one other Universe besides Universe 7 but... meh, acceptable, I guess. But it could have been a lot better.

• They can't change characters outfits, and when they finally do, the characters quickly return to the old and ugly ones.
• They can't age characters.
• They keep bringing back old and unnecessary characters.
• They spam the same old techniques.
• They can't come up with new techniques.

All sagas suffer from at least one of that, so how just "two sagas" is heavily relied on nostalgia?

And by "completely reinvented the character" you mean what, exactly? The old one was a terrible creature barely capable of speaking and just kept screaming the whole time. The new one is a terrible creature barely able to tell a little story and just kept screaming the whole time. The old one had a random and ugly green-ish transformation, the new one has a random and ugly green-ish transformation. What's so different between those two?
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm
We are exaggerating too much zamasu arc, TOP arc, BoG arc are original
Movie 14 is a huge slice of life that made the characters meet a new god. Slice of life episodes are rare and mostly happen in fillers. That is one of the reasons what makes that movie great. It's kinda different, and above all, it brought some content.

The problem with Future Trunks saga is where lies most of the missed opportunities. Damn, how can we deal with an evil god and not even a mention about Makaio and Makaioshin? The theme of that saga was man x god. Trunks spent his whole freaking saga yelling to god not to underestimate the humans. If god had to fuse using his godly method, shouldn't man fuse using his own resources? Gogeta x Zamasu would have been perfect, thematically speaking. The human fusion x the god fusion. But if human had to rely on god's method, then c'mon... Since we got Vegetto once, let Vegeta and Trunks fuse then. Goku would still be their to fulfill his role as the protagonist. Nope, let us active the safe zone card and bring Vegetto back, and that's not all, let's screw the character!

And then there is the whole "time travelling is prohibited" thing, which for some odd reason, Jaco (related to the subject) is conveniently nowhere to be seen and Trunks once again gets away with his crime. Not even a certain deity of time appears nor is mentioned. They preferred to make Trunks living with himself... I don't even have words for that, but let's just say it is indeed the worst ending in the history of the worst endings.

Tournaments are tournaments, there isn't and there'll never be something new. Universe Survival saga had potential, you're dealing with a multiversal tournament where the unthinkable can happen... Or we can just and simply reach the end, everything is return back to normal and we move on with our lives as if nothing happened. :roll: Oh, who is the victorious Universe in both tournaments? Hm... That's a difficult one to guess... :think:
Last edited by Grimlock on Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Modern Dragon Ball in a nutshell
Psajdak wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:45 pm
Everything is for the sake of enjoyment, and nostalgia, no one cares about plot

User avatar
Tai Lung
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:37 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am
Isn't Dragon Ball already a cartoon? At least in the parameter of an animated show that has demographic of children? It's no more or less of a cartoon now than it was back in the 1980s and 1990s.
I think people try too much to distinguish anime from American animated shows by labelling the latter as cartoons but not the former. Moreover, "Cartoon" is often used perjoratively when in actuality its the same as all other forms of art, some is good, some is bad, etc.

I believe what the OP is asking is whether or not a Dragon Ball series could work using the style of American animation.
yes, it is right
although the culture, the style of art and the writing are different but it could work ... taking into account how much the series influenced the whole world

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:49 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am
Isn't Dragon Ball already a cartoon? At least in the parameter of an animated show that has demographic of children? It's no more or less of a cartoon now than it was back in the 1980s and 1990s.
I think people try too much to distinguish anime from American animated shows by labelling the latter as cartoons but not the former. Moreover, "Cartoon" is often used perjoratively when in actuality its the same as all other forms of art, some is good, some is bad, etc.

I believe what the OP is asking is whether or not a Dragon Ball series could work using the style of American animation.
Oh.

Well, in that case, how the show visually looks is important, but what's even more important is how you write the story and characters. Revamping the visuals is something I can live with. Rewriting the characters to the point where they're unrecognizable to their original portrayal isn't something I'll take well at all. Unless you make it point that your intention is on rebooting the entire franchise.

User avatar
Kuwabara
Regular
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:36 am

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Kuwabara » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:52 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:18 pm
I love you Gaffer Tape but I thought you of ALL people would know better than to just put a franchise into some overrated writers hands and expect quality. Sure, Ben 10 had the late Dwayne McDuffie who had the herculean task of making Ben 10 more mature and palatable and ACTUALLY SUCCEEDING, creating a Billion dollar franchise. But Bryke? Lauren Montgomery? Joaquim Dos Santos? Their writing is the plague incarnatel.
When has Dos Santos written anything? He's mainly a director, and a pretty good one from what I've seen. He stages scenes like a live-action director would, and even worked wonders with restrictive character proportions like Bruce Timm's.
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
I Live Here
Posts: 3735
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:55 pm

He did writing for the worst season of Voltron Legendary Defender which is saying something about how incompetent he is at writing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_V ... r_episodes
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

Lucky_Deity
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:56 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DB could work as Cartoon Series?

Post by Lucky_Deity » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:27 pm

Dragon Ball is fine as it is but I am quite a fan of those designs, not going to lie.
Will never beat the original but they were interesting to look at, props on the artist.

Post Reply