How many series exist for you?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
TheZFighter
Regular
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:40 am

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by TheZFighter » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:55 pm

I'd generally class all the ones that have been created to exist.
Z-Fighters fan.

Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:29 pm

As many as the right the holders of the Dragon Ball franchise consider that exist.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:54 pm

Sani007 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 pm
The franchise have 801 episodes with Toei's counting.
DB: 153
DBZ: 291 + 2 specials
DBGT: 64 + 1 special
DBKai: 159
DBSuper: 131

So 5.
Are we really counting DBKai’s recut of DBZ episodes as “new episodes”

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4173
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:13 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:54 pm
Sani007 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 pm
The franchise have 801 episodes with Toei's counting.
DB: 153
DBZ: 291 + 2 specials
DBGT: 64 + 1 special
DBKai: 159
DBSuper: 131

So 5.
Are we really counting DBKai’s recut of DBZ episodes as “new episodes”
I think you could make a fair argument for it, particularly if you want to go by comparing dubs. That aside, I think taking out big honking masses of filler, altering the pacing, recording the VA with lower quality Japanese performances, and switching out the music makes for a very different tone if you were to compare the episodes side-by-side despite them telling the same overall story. Z being so different is the entire reason why a lot of people, myself included, feel that Z isn't an "expanded version of the manga" but its own thing entirely, right?

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:17 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:13 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:54 pm
Sani007 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 pm
The franchise have 801 episodes with Toei's counting.
DB: 153
DBZ: 291 + 2 specials
DBGT: 64 + 1 special
DBKai: 159
DBSuper: 131

So 5.
Are we really counting DBKai’s recut of DBZ episodes as “new episodes”
I think you could make a fair argument for it, particularly if you want to go by comparing dubs. That aside, I think taking out big honking masses of filler, altering the pacing, recording the VA with lower quality Japanese performances, and switching out the music makes for a very different tone if you were to compare the episodes side-by-side despite them telling the same overall story. Z being so different is the entire reason why a lot of people, myself included, feel that Z isn't an "expanded version of the manga" but its own thing entirely, right?
At the end of the day it’s not that much different than when Funimation “remastered the footage” , had some of their actors rerecords their lines from 8 years ago and put the Kikuchi music back in.

Kai isn’t a new series it’s just Z with scenes removed, slight censorship, new music (umm kinda) and the actors rerecording their dialog from 20 years prior.

Sani007
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:13 am

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by Sani007 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:43 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:54 pm
Sani007 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 pm
The franchise have 801 episodes with Toei's counting.
DB: 153
DBZ: 291 + 2 specials
DBGT: 64 + 1 special
DBKai: 159
DBSuper: 131

So 5.
Are we really counting DBKai’s recut of DBZ episodes as “new episodes”
Not we, this is the official counting of Toei.
Recap episodes are counted in other series. Actually, DBKai is even more than just a recap.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:44 am

Sani007 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:43 am

Not we, this is the official counting of Toei.
Recap episodes are counted in other series. Actually, DBKai is even more than just a recap.
I said recut. Not recap. Two completely different things

Kai is a recut. It’s not more than that. I really don’t care what a company that advertises Kai as “the Toriyama cut” despite skipping over the first 194 chapters or insist on using localized names for subtitles thinks Kai is. It’s not new.

Sani007
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:13 am

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by Sani007 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:40 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:44 am
Sani007 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:43 am

Not we, this is the official counting of Toei.
Recap episodes are counted in other series. Actually, DBKai is even more than just a recap.
I said recut. Not recap. Two completely different things

Kai is a recut. It’s not more than that. I really don’t care what a company that advertises Kai as “the Toriyama cut” despite skipping over the first 194 chapters or insist on using localized names for subtitles thinks Kai is. It’s not new.
Of course, it isn't totally new, I didn't say that, but not just a "recut". (new recorded dialogue, sound effects, music...)
Don't get me wrong, I really don't like Kai. It was a very bad idea, and killed the chance of a good remaster or a remake.
For me the worst DB anime product.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:43 am

Sani007 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:40 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:44 am
Sani007 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:43 am

Not we, this is the official counting of Toei.
Recap episodes are counted in other series. Actually, DBKai is even more than just a recap.
I said recut. Not recap. Two completely different things

Kai is a recut. It’s not more than that. I really don’t care what a company that advertises Kai as “the Toriyama cut” despite skipping over the first 194 chapters or insist on using localized names for subtitles thinks Kai is. It’s not new.
Of course, it isn't totally new, I didn't say that, but not just a "recut". (new recorded dialogue, sound effects, music...)
Don't get me wrong, I really don't like Kai. It was a very bad idea, and killed the chance of a good remaster or a remake.
For me the worst DB anime product.
“Remastered recut”

Again it’s not that much different than what Funimation did back in 07/08 when they had actors rerecord lines they already recorded, put the Kikuchi music back in and removed some sound filter effects

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 16265
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by ABED » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:00 am

I don't think there was ever a chance for a remake. Why would they?

What does the title question mean?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

AnimeMaakuo
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:10 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by AnimeMaakuo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:46 am

DB, DBZ, and DBGT with subs. The rest is D.O.G. S.H.I.T. :thumbup:
My YouTube

Soppa Saiyjins from Dorgou Ballru Zetto is my favorite transformation everah, especially when Trounksoru did it in front of Seru and when Bejita did it when he faced Jingonigen-hachigo. But for real, I use the FUNi pronunciation. - Soppa Saia People

User avatar
PremiumSalt
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by PremiumSalt » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:10 am

For me, the two "main" series are:

1. Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z: Despite the anime split, I see these as being the same storyline, especially since they weren't split in manga form.
1b. Dragon Ball Kai: A cut down version of the "Z" portion of the original anime.

2. Dragon Ball Super: The official sequel to the original Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z storyline. Even though they were branded as Z movies, I consider BoG and RoF to be a part of this, alongside Super: Broly of course.


Then there are the "secondary series":

3. Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z movies: While a part of the original anime from a production standpoint, I see these as being separate due to not fitting in the timeline at all and largely doing their own thing.

4. Dragon Ball GT: Certainly not canon in my view, but it does exist. As Toriyama put it, it's a "side story"

And then, in a category of its own:

5. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: An episodic series of extended commercials for a video game. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Tournament of Power 8. 21st Budōkai 9. Broly 10. Battle of Gods 11. Boo 12. U6 Tournament 13. Freeza 14. Red Ribbon Army 15. Artificial Humans/Cell 16.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Regular
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:17 am

1. Dragon Ball

2. Dragon Ball Z - Completely changed the tone of the show from a goofy fantasy show based on A Journey to the West to basically a sci-fi / superhero series based on Superman and the Terminator. DBZ Kai is just a redubbed abdridged version of the same show.

3. Dragon Ball GT - The non-canon continuation of Z with limited influence from the retired creator Toriyama.

4. Dragon Ball Heroes - The non-canon story produced for video games of the same name.

5. Dragon Ball Super (anime) - The canon continuation of Z, with a basic outline produced by Toriyama, but the gaps filled by TOEI.

6. Dragon Ball Super (manga) - Like the anime, it's based on Toriyama's basic story outline, but has a much different path to the same goal. While the manga was originally just produced to advertise Battle of Gods, it quickly evolved into its own thing, with artist Toyotaro even creating his own original story arc about a villain named Moro.

User avatar
Tai Lung
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm

the fact that the "subject" is not clarified very well makes many approve this to want to create "bait" :lol:
anyway once again GT fans shown to be quite resentful

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Regular
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:15 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 pm
the fact that the "subject" is not clarified very well makes many approve this to want to create "bait" :lol:
anyway once again GT fans shown to be quite resentful
Yeah, I don't really get that. Nothing has changed about GT. If you enjoy GT, you can still watch it. No one can take that away from you. Is it that Super fans consider GT to be "non-canon?" Well, GT always had questionable status in canon, due to Toriyama's limited influence in the show after his retirement. It's not like GT was previously considered canon, and then Super came and retconned it out of existence. Heck, GT even still has plenty of representation in the video games, because people just love Super Saiyan 4. So what's the problem?

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:27 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:17 am
1. Dragon Ball

2. Dragon Ball Z - Completely changed the tone of the show from a goofy fantasy show based on A Journey to the West to basically a sci-fi / superhero series based on Superman and the Terminator.
The Terminator aspects is limited to the Cyborg saga only. Goku is only like Superman (pre Dragon Ball Minus) in that he’s an alien with super strength from a destroyed planet) and that’s it.

I’m not convinced you actually watched Dragon Ball? The tone really didn’t change all that much from Dragon Ball to Z. The series more or less abandoned it’s goofy gag stuff after the first arc or two. Save from some filler episodes the story pretty abandoned the Journey to the West homage after the first arc.

And DBZ definitely wasn’t a superhero series it was still a martial arts series.

And sure the sci fi elements were more pronounced in Z with the revelation Goku was an alien,Piccolo and Kami were aliens, the whole trip to Namek, the Cyborg/Cell saga etc. But the thing is the series remained firmly rooted in fantasy. The characters are still martial artist who use chi. Goku dies and goes to the afterlife to train with a God. They’re still going to Namek for mystical spheres that summon a wish granting dragon, they fight a bubble gum demon that turns people into candy.

And the sci fi trappings were in Dragon Ball as well. The hoi poi capsules, the Red Ribbon Army’s arsenal, Bulma’s inventions. There were more sci fi elements in Z but the genre never changed.

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Regular
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:45 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:27 pm
The Terminator aspects is limited to the Cyborg saga only. Goku is only like Superman (pre Dragon Ball Minus) in that he’s an alien with super strength from a destroyed planet) and that’s it.

I’m not convinced you actually watched Dragon Ball? The tone really didn’t change all that much from Dragon Ball to Z. The series more or less abandoned it’s goofy gag stuff after the first arc or two. Save from some filler episodes the story pretty abandoned the Journey to the West homage after the first arc.

And DBZ definitely wasn’t a superhero series it was still a martial arts series.

And sure the sci fi elements were more pronounced in Z with the revelation Goku was an alien,Piccolo and Kami were aliens, the whole trip to Namek, the Cyborg/Cell saga etc. But the thing is the series remained firmly rooted in fantasy. The characters are still martial artist who use chi. Goku dies and goes to the afterlife to train with a God. They’re still going to Namek for mystical spheres that summon a wish granting dragon, they fight a bubble gum demon that turns people into candy.

And the sci fi trappings were in Dragon Ball as well. The hoi poi capsules, the Red Ribbon Army’s arsenal, Bulma’s inventions. There were more sci fi elements in Z but the genre never changed.
Yes, the Terminator and Superman inspirations (or at least, I assume they were inspirations, since Toriyama is known for enjoying American movies, and the obvious parallels between them) were pretty shallow, but so was the Journey to the West in the original Dragon Ball. It seems like Toriyama finds inspiration and uses basic ideas from other sources as starting points. It's not that he takes the entire plot from those sources and rebrands them as his own. That's not what I'm saying.

Yes, I did watch the original Dragon Ball. I was pretty late getting into it, like a lot of Western fans, but I did watch it from start to finish. OG Dragon Ball has a certain tone to it until about the time Piccolo gets involved. So the shift in tone did come slightly before Z, but overall the two series are extremely different.

I call Z a sci-fi because it uses a lot of sci-fi elements. An alien comes from outer space and reveals that Goku is an alien, and so is Piccolo. They travel to outerspace to battle more aliens and bring their friends back to life. They return to Earth, and Cyborg Frieza is defeated by a hero from the future, who comes to warn them about androids who are coming to destroy the world. The Buu Saga is more magical in focus, but the other two-thirds of the show is very sci-fi, which was even further emphasized by the Faulconer music people like me grew up with.

Of course, Toriyama's designs always included things like flying cars, taking inspiration from Star Wars. But that was more of an aesthetic style. The storytelling wasn't sci-fi driven until the alien fell from the sky. It also wasn't until Z that characters were flying around like Superman, battling in the sky. We got a little bit of flight with Tien and Piccolo, but their battles were still mostly on the ground. It wasn't until Z that we got these Superman vs Zod style battles. Heck, Goku was still flying around on Nimbus at the beginning of Z.

TL;DR: There are enough differences between DB and Z to consider them separate entities. I like both of them for what they are, but they're very different.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:49 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:17 am
Dragon Ball Z Completely changed the tone of the show from a goofy fantasy show...
The tone of the show changed way before Z, specifically after General Blue was defeated. The introduction of Tao was when DB changed to what you're familiar with in Z.
The two series are extremely different.
No they're not. An extreme difference would be something like Super compared to the original 2 anime.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Regular
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:21 pm

sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:49 pm
The tone of the show changed way before Z, specifically after General Blue was defeated. The introduction of Tao was when DB changed to what you're familiar with in Z.
Eh. It still seemed pretty goofy to me, comparatively speaking at least. But you're right. Tao probably was the earliest villain who seemed Z-like. The villain with the insurmountable power advantage, forcing Goku to train to be able to overcome him. Before then, Goku was pretty much always the strongest, and his hunger was the random Kryptonite that kept him from decimating all of his enemies when the plot needed tension. (Also, I find it funny how that Super Human Water thing started out as a trick, but later became an actual thing when Goku needed it to defeat Piccolo.)
sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:49 pm
No they're not. An extreme difference would be something like Super compared to the original 2 anime.
You think DB and Z are the same, but Super is different? I'm curious to know your reasoning on that. To me, Super feels like a cross between the two, with original Dragon Ball's goofy humor and Z's action and plot style. I don't think it rises to the quality of either, of course, but it still feels like it has Toriyama's touch.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1702
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How many series exist for you?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:40 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:20 am
Yes, the Terminator and Superman inspirations (or at least, I assume they were inspirations, since Toriyama is known for enjoying American movies, and the obvious parallels between them) were pretty shallow, but so was the Journey to the West in the original Dragon Ball
The Journey to the West inspiration was far more pronounced to the point the main character literally shares the same name as the Monkey King in Japanese. The series moves away from it after the first arc but it’s not nearly as superficial as the Superman origins. Before Dragon Ball Minus the Superman similarities were tenuous at best. Factor in Goku was conceived as a super strong dude long before the alien concept came into play and the only real similarity is dead planet.



. OG Dragon Ball has a certain tone to it until about the time Piccolo gets involved. So the shift in tone did come slightly before Z, but overall the two series are extremely different.
It pretty much shifted to a more serious tone by the Red Ribbon Army arc. The two series aren’t “extremely different”
I call Z a sci-fi because it uses a lot of sci-fi elements. An alien comes from outer space and reveals that Goku is an alien, and so is Piccolo. They travel to outerspace to battle more aliens and bring their friends back to life.
It uses sci fi elements but it’s still a martial arts fantasy with chi using martial artist. The sci fi aspects are pretty shallow.

, which was even further emphasized by the Faulconer music people like me grew up with.

Terribad music that should have never existed really shouldn’t factor in at all. The series wasn’t conceived with Faulconers cell phones going off on vibrate in the washing machine as music.
Of course, Toriyama's designs always included things like flying cars, taking inspiration from Star Wars. But that was more of an aesthetic style. The storytelling wasn't sci-fi driven until the alien fell from the sky. It also wasn't until Z that characters were flying around like Superman, battling in the sky. We got a little bit of flight with Tien and Piccolo, but their battles were still mostly on the ground. It wasn't until Z that we got these Superman vs Zod style battles. Heck, Goku was still flying around on Nimbus at the beginning of Z.
Flying was introduced at the end of Dragon Ball and just took over by Z. They manipulate chi to fly. It’s not a sci fi thing.

Superman gets his super powers because he’s alien and it was written that’s how his alien physiology reacts to the earth’s yellow sun Goku did not which is why human characters like Yamucha and Kuririn and Roshi are inhumanly strong and can fire energy attacks too.
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Post Reply