Exploring the lore

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Exploring the lore

Post by Vijay » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 am

Rewatchin original DragonBall and DBZ, I've started tons of potential Toriyama had for exploring the lore. Various "what-ifs" is it just me or what you people think?

Ex: Nameless Namekians origin story...from what prompted his departure from Namek to Earth, who were his parents (Kataz) and incidents which planted evil seeds in his heart/minds which later manifested as evil Daimou

Or Mutaito-Sama's origin?

Or Babidi & Dabura's backstory as well as most of his minions

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by ABED » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:18 pm

Oh lord with the "P" word. It's not lore that people care about, it's not what drove people to watch, and it's not what keeps people coming back. Everyone has a history, but most of it isn't very interesting. It's the story that people care about.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5103
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:39 pm

It took me a minute to get that the P word is potential. LOL.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 pm

Vijay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 am Rewatchin original DragonBall and DBZ, I've started tons of potential Toriyama had for exploring the lore
Not everything needs to be overly explain in detail.

See Rowling’s constant “expanding on the lore” for Harry Potter as the prime exampls

Ex: Nameless Namekians origin story...from what prompted his departure from Namek to Earth, who were his parents (Kataz) and incidents which planted evil seeds in his heart/minds which later manifested as evil Daimaou
Not important and doesn’t add anything
Or Mutaito-Sama's origin?
He’s a martial artist.
Or Babidi & Dabura's backstory as well as most of his minions
Demons.

Bobbodi is an evil wizard whose dad really liked Disney’s Cinderella

Dabra is a demon that Bobbidi made more powerful .

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:51 pm

Vijay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 amDabura's backstory
Thanks to Dimps that made him a more interesting character, it would be nice to explore more of him. Just what the heck means being the ruler of the Demon Realm. Since we're already there, tell us about Makaio and Makaioshin. Tell us the role Demon Realm fulfill to the Universe, the so-called antithesis to the Kaioshin realm. And don't forget to (re)introduce his sister.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Vijay » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:59 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 pm
Vijay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 am Rewatchin original DragonBall and DBZ, I've started tons of potential Toriyama had for exploring the lore
Not everything needs to be overly explain in detail.

See Rowling’s constant “expanding on the lore” for Harry Potter as the prime exampls

Ex: Nameless Namekians origin story...from what prompted his departure from Namek to Earth, who were his parents (Kataz) and incidents which planted evil seeds in his heart/minds which later manifested as evil Daimaou
Not important and doesn’t add anything
Or Mutaito-Sama's origin?
He’s a martial artist.
Or Babidi & Dabura's backstory as well as most of his minions
Demons.

Bobbodi is an evil wizard whose dad really liked Disney’s Cinderella

Dabra is a demon that Bobbidi made more powerful .
Seems ur content with whatever thrown at without slightest detailing or depth. Its a fictional tale loosely based upon an ancient myth after all. Still, Toriyama crafted a world populated with such immensely likable characters & a little fleshed-out tale would've been great...considerin how we're discussin a series 3 decades old...a testament to its dormant staying power

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:27 am

Spending too much time on backstory doesn't add depth. The tale is fleshed out primarily through story, not backstory.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:16 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 pm
Vijay wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 am


Ex: Nameless Namekians origin story...from what prompted his departure from Namek to Earth, who were his parents (Kataz) and incidents which planted evil seeds in his heart/minds which later manifested as evil Daimaou
Not important and doesn’t add anything


also that stuff is talked about in the series, well everything besides his name. his parents sent him off because of the abnormal weather or whatever, and most humans not being pure of heart give birth to a evil side of him. and like that stuff is better left unexplained i think, we don't need to know everything about everything.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:34 am

Some things are better left to the imagination. We know in essence where the child of Katatsu came from, why he came to Earth, and where the tiniest bit of evil he had came from. Seeing exactly how that all happened is asking for disappointment.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Zephyr » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:39 pm

When it comes to bullet point representations of historical events, the events themselves, as outlined in said bullet points, don't really have any more or less "potential" storytelling merit than any other ones. I don't think any bit of backstory is "too important not to show", nor do I think any bit of backstory is strictly "better left to the imagination".

It all depends on who is telling the story, and how they tell it. Toriyama is the one whose storytelling made Dragon Ball, well, even a thing. He's not the only one I would trust to write a Dragon Ball story, but he's the only one who has written Dragon Ball stories who could say they're writing another and make me care. I don't care what sort of fanservice-y plot points they want to cover, if they haven't already demonstrated some genuine chops, I'm sleeping.

You could tell me "they're making a new Dragon Ball story about Bacterian's life", and while that would be an odd choice, if you were to also tell me that Naoki Urasawa was writing it? I'm sold. Day one purchase. A gifted storyteller can make any premise shine. You could tell me "they're making a new Dragon Ball story about Piccolo Daimao's original rampage", and while that would pique my interest, following it up with "and it's gonna be written by Oda" would dampen that immediately. No premise is guaranteed to shine in the hands of anyone you give it to, on the merit of its premise alone.

That's not to say that even the most talented people are perfect, or anything. Just that they're probably a better indicator of something's "potential" than its raw premise.

In other words, expand on all the lore you want, but at least make it worthwhile by letting other actual talent have their take on Dragon Ball, because expanding the lore alone is not worthwhile.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:49 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:34 am . Seeing exactly how that all happened is asking for disappointment.
I’m sure fans who were wanting to know who Goku’s mother was weren’t expecting a pastiche of Lara-El with shades of June Cleaver.

Sometimes not knowing is better.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Zephyr wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:39 pm When it comes to bullet point representations of historical events, the events themselves, as outlined in said bullet points, don't really have any more or less "potential" storytelling merit than any other ones. I don't think any bit of backstory is "too important not to show", nor do I think any bit of backstory is strictly "better left to the imagination".

It all depends on who is telling the story, and how they tell it. Toriyama is the one whose storytelling made Dragon Ball, well, even a thing. He's not the only one I would trust to write a Dragon Ball story, but he's the only one who has written Dragon Ball stories who could say they're writing another and make me care. I don't care what sort of fanservice-y plot points they want to cover, if they haven't already demonstrated some genuine chops, I'm sleeping.

You could tell me "they're making a new Dragon Ball story about Bacterian's life", and while that would be an odd choice, if you were to also tell me that Naoki Urasawa was writing it? I'm sold. Day one purchase. A gifted storyteller can make any premise shine. You could tell me "they're making a new Dragon Ball story about Piccolo Daimao's original rampage", and while that would pique my interest, following it up with "and it's gonna be written by Oda" would dampen that immediately. No premise is guaranteed to shine in the hands of anyone you give it to, on the merit of its premise alone.

That's not to say that even the most talented people are perfect, or anything. Just that they're probably a better indicator of something's "potential" than its raw premise.

In other words, expand on all the lore you want, but at least make it worthwhile by letting other actual talent have their take on Dragon Ball, because expanding the lore alone is not worthwhile.
Stuff like how Hannibal Lecter became a cannibal was always bound to be a disappointment. Rarely are prequels good. For every Better Call Saul (even parts of that show have me a little weary), there is a multitude of truly awful prequel stories. What story could possibly suffice to explain what made The Joker who he is? Yes, execution matters but even a gifted storyteller at the helm is hardly a guarantee of a good story and telling the story of how something came to be when we already know where they went almost always ends in disappointment because prequels are about worldbuilding and lore and hitting plot points by their nature.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Exploring the lore

Post by Zephyr » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:04 pm

Who did they get to write those stories?

Post Reply