With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

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With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by Jord » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:54 pm

I've spoken about this with some of my lgbtqia+ friends and it seems like a natural progression. Just subtly include lgbtqia+ characters. Don't change current characters but just add some new characters without making a spectacle out of it.Just add some color.

It's a shame that thus far we only had one really strong black character in the form of Uub who was pretty much masted in DBZ due to his late entry. GT fixed this to some degree but how awesome would it be if new characters joined the crew in all shapes and sizes instead of just having a bunch of caucasian/asian males dominating pretty much everything?

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 pm

Is Uub black? Given Toriyama's tendency to draw blacks with big lips, he never struck me as black.
GT fixed this to some degree but how awesome would it be if new characters joined the crew in all shapes and sizes instead of just having a bunch of caucasian/asian males dominating pretty much everything?
It's a Japanese story based on a Chinese genre. Japan isn't as ethnically diverse as the US. I'm fine with gay characters showing up and women being given something more to do, but having mostly Asians populate an inherently Asian story doesn't bother me any more than Luke Cage being populated by mostly black actors.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by gokaiblue » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:46 pm

Personally, if the story calls for it, but otherwise, representation doesn't trump story.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm

The main character is asexual.

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 pm
Is Uub black? Given Toriyama's tendency to draw blacks with big lips, he never struck me as black.
I was under the impression he was suppose to be like southern asian?

He’s definitely not black. Look at Staff Officer Black or Mr.Popo.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:56 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
The main character is asexual.
I could be wrong, but I’m not certain that Toriyama even really knows what asexuality is.
Last edited by WittyUsername on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:58 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:56 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
The main character is asexual.
I could be wrong, but I’m not certain that Toriyama even really knows what asexuality is.
Just because Toriyama may or may not know the word for it and most certainly wasn’t trying to make a socio-political statement doesn’t mean it’s any less true. Son Goku is still asexual

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:58 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:56 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
The main character is asexual.
I could be wrong, but I’m not certain that Toriyama even really knows what asexuality is.
Just because Toriyama may or may not know the word for it and most certainly wasn’t trying to make a socio-political statement doesn’t mean it’s any less true. Son Goku is still asexual
I don’t know. As far as I can tell, Goku’s bewilderment about things like sex and kissing is more supposed to be a testament to how childish and innocent he is, rather than any explicit aversion to the concept of sex. At the very least, Chi-Chi somehow managed to convince him to sleep with her on at least two occasions.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 pm


I don’t know. As far as I can tell, Goku’s bewilderment about things like sex and kissing is more supposed to be a testament to how childish and innocent he is, rather than any explicit aversion to the concept of sex. At the very least, Chi-Chi somehow managed to convince him to sleep with her on at least two occasions.
Being asexual and being capable of having sex are not mutually exclusive. Chi Chi more than likely convinced him that sex was part and parcel for being married. Goku still has no interest in sex or women (or men obviously) ergo he’s asexual no matter how you want to spin it.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 pm

Dragon Ball should only include characters Toriyama wants to include. DB being global should have nothing to do with how the story is written or what kind of characters make it in. Let's say Toriyama somehow found this topic and agreed with it, who exactly should be added ? lgbt covers a lot of different people so will one be enough to represent the whole group ? if so, then who ? if not, Will Toriyama have to include one character to represent each type of person ? a gay man, a lesbian woman, etc. The minute a writer starts making decisions based on what fans want is the minute the story falls apart.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
The main character is asexual.

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 pm
Is Uub black? Given Toriyama's tendency to draw blacks with big lips, he never struck me as black.
I was under the impression he was suppose to be like southern asian?

He’s definitely not black. Look at Staff Officer Black or Mr.Popo.
I was thinking the basis for Uub might be Romani.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:11 pm

Isn't it suspected that Whis is gay?
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:24 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 pm


I don’t know. As far as I can tell, Goku’s bewilderment about things like sex and kissing is more supposed to be a testament to how childish and innocent he is, rather than any explicit aversion to the concept of sex. At the very least, Chi-Chi somehow managed to convince him to sleep with her on at least two occasions.
Being asexual and being capable of having sex are not mutually exclusive. Chi Chi more than likely convinced him that sex was part and parcel for being married. Goku still has no interest in sex or women (or men obviously) ergo he’s asexual no matter how you want to spin it.
I’m not trying to spin anything. I’m just not sure if Goku would qualify as an example of asexual representation, at least not anymore than the average shonen protagonist seems to be.

Of course, I’m also the kind of person who prefers to imagine the Joker as being asexual, even though most writers would seem to disagree with that notion, so maybe I’m just not the best judge when it comes to determining the sexuality of fictional characters.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:35 pm

So... Here's the thing. I love what we're doing in America, but if we're talking GLOBAL... Most nations do NOT value diversity and acceptance quite the way we do. Heck, many of them have trouble with concepts as simple as "women should be treated just as well as men are".

We're the melting pot culture... WE'RE the unusual ones... and homophobia is prevalent across many parts of the world, not just the nations that Judeo-Christianity has touched.

If anything, Dragon Ball getting global is going to make it LESS inclusive :( ...
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:28 pm

Toriyama won't and can't write it but the staff at Toei Animation and their freelance writers have no qualms throwing in queer undertones. Zamasu x Black, Whis, Kale x Caulifla and arguably even Ribrien and his friends all carry shades of queerness to their interactions and I absolutely love that. Frankly, it's nothing different than what Japanese cartoons and comics have been doing for a few decades now, especially as more and more Otaku enter the industry and combine their various tastes into projects the amount of queerness increases.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:26 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:28 pm
Toriyama won't and can't write it but the staff at Toei Animation and their freelance writers have no qualms throwing in queer undertones. Zamasu x Black, Whis, Kale x Caulifla and arguably even Ribrien and his friends all carry shades of queerness to their interactions and I absolutely love that. Frankly, it's nothing different than what Japanese cartoons and comics have been doing for a few decades now, especially as more and more Otaku enter the industry and combine their various tastes into projects the amount of queerness increases.
Zamasu and Black was more narcissism than anything else.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:38 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:26 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:28 pm
Toriyama won't and can't write it but the staff at Toei Animation and their freelance writers have no qualms throwing in queer undertones. Zamasu x Black, Whis, Kale x Caulifla and arguably even Ribrien and his friends all carry shades of queerness to their interactions and I absolutely love that. Frankly, it's nothing different than what Japanese cartoons and comics have been doing for a few decades now, especially as more and more Otaku enter the industry and combine their various tastes into projects the amount of queerness increases.
Zamasu and Black was more narcissism than anything else.
It's still gay and still queer.
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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by Gligarman » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:51 pm

Given that Dragon Ball is an 80's manga targeted at young Japanese boys that was made by a self proclaimed country bumpkin, it's amazing it got as much diversity as it did! But I do feel that if Toriyama were include more diverse characters he'd have to acknowledge that the line between caricature and stereotype is paper thin, and what was acceptable in 1984 may not fly by today's standards. With that said, none of the characters are defined strictly by their skin color (though I did find it questionable that Kale's skin color turns white when she powers up when that doesn't happen to anyone else) But yeah, more diversity would be great. Toriyama doesn't draw Black characters with those lips anymore so I don't think there'd be a problem there.

As for LGBT characters, I can say as someone who is totally into chubby and bara characters, I know that type of fanservice when I see it and it's all over this franchise! Lol. But for real though, I always thought Caulifla and Kale had a thing for each other. My reasoning being that if one of them was male no one would question that.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by gantarat » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 pm

More like no LGBT characters. Many Country is still Anti LGBT (China, Russia, etc, etc)
Look at MCU. Disneys can't add Openly LGBT Heroes because The movies will get a ban and make fewer amounts of money.

At best is Bait or Undertone but not confirm anything.

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:43 pm

gantarat wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 pm
More like no LGBT characters. Many Country is still Anti LGBT (China, Russia, etc, etc)
Look at MCU. Disneys can't add Openly LGBT Heroes because The movies will get a ban and make fewer amounts of money.

At best is Bait or Undertone but not confirm anything.
Dragon Ball shouldn’t be dictated by other countries social hang ups.


Granted we’re talking about a series that should have, for the most part, ended in 95/96

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Re: With DragonBall getting more and more global, it's time to include more lgbtqia+ characters

Post by Vijay » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:51 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
The main character is asexual.

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 pm
Is Uub black? Given Toriyama's tendency to draw blacks with big lips, he never struck me as black.
I was under the impression he was suppose to be like southern asian?

He’s definitely not black. Look at Staff Officer Black or Mr.Popo.
I at 1st thought Uub was Namu's son.

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