So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by TheBigBoy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:30 pm

You should throw red paint on him

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:08 pm

TheBigBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:30 pm
You should throw red paint on him
No, don't do that. That'll just give Youtube something more to whine about :yawn: ...
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by sintzu » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:21 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:08 pm
TheBigBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:30 pm
You should throw red paint on him
No, don't do that. That'll just give Youtube something more to whine about :yawn: ...
It'll give everyone else something to laugh at. :lol:
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:22 am

This is one of those things that's going to be completely up to you, Phoenix.

You have an opportunity to receive the autograph of a character you really like. Collecting the autograph of the actor who plays the voice of a fictional character you like only says something about your hobbies. Not your morals, your virtues, your sense of judgement or anything else. The social culture we live in these days has made people feel like if they go out and do a certain thing, it "says something" about them. If you get your Broly Funko Pop signed by Vic, it doesn't mean anything other than you got to meet an actor for a character you like. Even if you think the kind of allegations lobbied against Vic are to be condemned, obtaining his signature doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you condone inappropriate behavior. Think of how you might feel if you pass on this opportunity just to appease people on the internet you don't even know.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:58 am

That's not a great take. Monetarily supporting a serial abuser through a personal signature because of your hobbies actually totally would be putting your hobbies ahead of your virtues and morals. Your actions totally do say things about you as a person. Nobody's telling him he has to hate Vic's performance, or anything he's in, or even hate Vic, necessarily. But giving him money and viewing him as a person to be respected in a way that'd, y'know, make him someone you'd want an autograph from, would be an action that directly conflicts with believing him to be a creep and not to have his behavior condoned.

Also, don't characterize this as "internet people you don't know wanting to be appeased". He asked a question, we're entitled to be able to give our answers. Nobody is saying the things they say because they're "wanting to be appeased", we're answering according to what we believe should be done to the person who asked for our opinion on what to do. Nobody's forcing him to do anything. And if it were, you would be no different, since saying "don't listen to these people, just do what you feel like" would be the answer that happens to appease you, personally.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:52 am

sintzu wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:21 am
Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:08 pm
TheBigBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:30 pm
You should throw red paint on him
No, don't do that. That'll just give Youtube something more to whine about :yawn: ...
It'll give everyone else something to laugh at. :lol:
It would also give him and his side of things more fuel for their side, "see, look how crazy those KickVic-ers are, they throw paint on people, that's assault!", and do we really want to do that?
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:33 am
Also I’d appreciate if you replied to my post if you’re responding to me.
I've done that on occasion, too; generally when I wanted to make a larger point, and I only wanted my response to make up a small part of my post... Or when I just felt like it.

I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt Shaddy meant to snub you in any way.
not to mention, i always thought that like quoting a post right above yours was generally viewed as like bad on forums ? i suppose it's one of those things that's so minor it doesn't matter, but i dunno i've gotten that vibe from a bunch of forums i've been on lol.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:44 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:58 am
Also, don't characterize this as "internet people you don't know wanting to be appeased". He asked a question, we're entitled to be able to give our answers. Nobody is saying the things they say because they're "wanting to be appeased", we're answering according to what we believe should be done to the person who asked for our opinion on what to do. Nobody's forcing him to do anything. And if it were, you would be no different, since saying "don't listen to these people, just do what you feel like" would be the answer that happens to appease you, personally.
Sorry, but I'm absolutely going to characterize it that way because that's essentially what it is. Yeah he made this thread asking for opinions, and in my opinion I think Phoenix wants Vic's autograph because he really likes Broly. The conflict here is that there's been a huge internet outrage explosion over this at least within the DB, FMA, anime and Vic Mignogna fandoms (which probably have a ton of crossover given how influential DBZ is to the anime community at large) and the social culture we live in now absolutely makes people do things to appease outrage mobs. Paying for Vic's autograph will cost what, like $30 dollars max? That's nothing in the long run. FUNimation has already fired him so if making Vic financially destitute is your goal then FUNi has pretty much kneecapped the dude. Outrage mobs will take care of the rest by making a big stink over anyone else hiring him in the future. People pursue voice actor autographs because it makes them feel like they own a piece of the series. That's worth $30 to me (depending on the actor/series I'd even pay more) and I'm just saying Phoenix will regret it if he loves Broly and lets this opportunity slip away because it was he was concerned about owning Vic's autograph meaning he supports Vic's behavior, when all it means is he loves Broly. I think you're being way too politically correct about it.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:44 pm

First off, it's not about how much it costs, Vic has plenty of money and won't help or hurt either way, it's about the action of willingly giving money to a person you know is bad, just because you like a thing he was in. There's no ambiguity, that is 100% putting your hobbies ahead of your values. You are encouraging this behavior with the justification of "just do what you want", when obviously OP cares about what it would mean if he did. There are countless *worse* examples saying "just do what you want, you're not a bad person either way" would cause horrible problems. It reduces moral behavior to an innate quality one either does or does not possess, and that almost always leads to it eventually being used to rationalize and justify shitty behavior.

Secondly, looking at the accusations against Vic and jumping to the conclusion of "outrage culture" leaves me skeptical at best. There's no shame in a large number of people speaking out against a man who routinely sexually assaults his fans and coworkers, because there were a large number of people affected by that, and if there's any "outrage mob" involved it's the ones doxxing, harassing and threatening the victims, and the shit-stirring YouTube grifters (who literally profit off if manufactured outrage). People aren't responding to this because they want to really hate Vic Mignogna or shit in him for no reason, the man did some terrible shit and got away with it for years, and this sounds like trying to remove the discussion of Vic's behavior from a conversation about whether one should take Vic's behavior into account when choosing to give him money and say "I'm a big fan, REGARDLESS OF ALL THE GROPING 14 YEAR OLDS YOU DID".

And that's, uh, worrying, to say the least? It's not separating the art from the artist, it's literally going to the individual himself and saying "you are worth giving money to". That mentality doesn't lead down a good road, because any time anyone else who this person or anyone else likes does something bad, you can just push the margin of "I can still give them my money" further and further back. I mean, would you tell someone who wanted to pay for Bill Cosby's autograph the same thing? I mean, surely if they just liked his comedy, there's no message being sent by paying for the autograph of a rapist with decades of criminal history.

That's obviously on a different scale, but it's the same principle, telling someone it's okay to pay for the autograph, the personal mark of a longtime known sexual assailant, just because you like his work, and it doesn't say anything bad about you as a person because you're...just indulging your hobbies, as if that somehow makes you immune.

People are speaking what they believe to someone who asked what they believe, and your answer has been something to the extent of "what they say doesn't matter, just listen to me, and I'll tell you anything you do is okay". Why would your position matter more when all it seems to be is anti-everyone else's position?
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:53 pm

Hitler's autograph is actually worth a lot to collectors, the majority of which don't approve of what he did in any way.

But in that case the money isn't going to him or his followers, so that's a rather big difference.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:44 pm
Rant clipped for aesthetics
I am absolutely encouraging Phoenix to get this autograph because it seems like he likes Broly a lot, and I know having the autograph would make him happy regardless of the Vic situation. To me it doesn't factor into his morals because it just means he paid for the service of having his toy autographed. And if you read the OP, you'd know he said he'd be receiving it from a friend who would be getting the signature of an extra Broly Funko Pop that the friend has. I have said several times in this thread that Phoenix has to make this decision himself and decide if passing up this opportunity is more valuable than having the autograph.

If he passes on the opportunity, he will have no signed Broly toy but will possess the ability to tell people "Yeah, I could have gotten Vic's autograph but I didn't because I think he's a bad dude." That's fine. I understand a lot of people feel that way right now given the circumstances and that's a normal reaction on their part. If he follows through with the opportunity, he will have the autograph of perhaps his favorite character, which is pretty cool. I have the autographs of most of the main cast of DBZ on a poster above my computer and looking at it makes me really happy because I love the show. I wouldn't trade it for anything. And unless he posts here or on his social media accounts showing off a photo of the autograph, no one is really going to know or care. That's why I told him not to concern himself with the opinions of people from the internet he doesn't know. No one is sitting around with a morality scorecard to hold it against him later in life because he got Vic's autograph on a Funko toy. It's not going to set him down a dark path of making bad judgments either.

Finally, you have done a great deal of projecting and insinuating in this thread and I don't appreciate it. You're accusing me of just offering the opposite opinion of everyone else when I simply don't think of Phoenix's actions in this situation as morally binding to anything. If he gets this autograph, he has to live with the decision, but it's a decision to which I don't think there are really any consequences, so that's why I'm encouraging him to get it if he wants to.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:53 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 pm
I am absolutely encouraging Phoenix to get this autograph because it seems like he likes Broly a lot, and I know having the autograph would make him happy regardless of the Vic situation. To me it doesn't factor into his morals because it just means he paid for the service of having his toy autographed. And if you read the OP, you'd know he said he'd be receiving it from a friend who would be getting the signature of an extra Broly Funko Pop that the friend has. I have said several times in this thread that Phoenix has to make this decision himself and decide if passing up this opportunity is more valuable than having the autograph.
Of course he has to make the decision himself, it's literally impossible for anyone else to do it. But you're still jumping to this "don't listen to them" response, as if he didn't ask and your response is worth more than anyone else's even though you claim to still be arguing from the perspective of someone with no position either way.

Listening to peers on a difficult subject is not a bad thing, and the nature of your responses prey on the unfortunate aspect of human nature to rationalize a bad decision rather than confront it, and that's why I'm arguing here.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 pm
If he follows through with the opportunity, he will have the autograph of perhaps his favorite character, which is pretty cool.
No, he would have the autograph of Vic Mignogna. You cannot come at this from a perspective of separating art from the artist while simultaneously acting like the character and his dub actor are the same person. You would have the autograph of a creep who played one villain a few times, that's what the reality is. No matter how much you like the character, I think that should come first. "Broly" is not a single person. He, like many characters in Dragon Ball, is a composite of Toriyama, Yamamuro, and Shintani's designs, as well as Shimada's voice, and Koyama and Toriyama's writing. That's the closest you can say to a person "being" Broly, and Vic is waaaaay off on the fringes. But the important part is, Vic is still a creep. Pretending he isn't in the time that you get his autograph doesn't mean the autograph will not still be the autograph of a creep.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 pm
And unless he posts here or on his social media accounts showing off a photo of the autograph, no one is really going to know or care. That's why I told him not to concern himself with the opinions of people from the internet he doesn't know. No one is sitting around with a morality scorecard to hold it against him later in life because he got Vic's autograph on a Funko toy. It's not going to set him down a dark path of making bad judgments either.
Well, first off that second point is an assumption, you actually cannot say for certain that leveraging the knowledge of Vic's actions to get his autograph and stroke his ego in the process won't lead to having looser grip on who deserves that level of interaction despite their mistakes in the future.

More importantly, you are now arguing that if nobody else knows he did it, that means it isn't bad. That isn't how anyone should function. We know it's relatively low-level, and so does OP, but a zero-tolerance policy for sexual assault is pretty commonplace here, and that has no effect based on whether we know who or when someone has been supporting Vic.

Nobody "sits around with a morality scorecard" for like, 90% of things in real life. You think almost any of the anonymous doxxing harassers who support Vic have been held accountable for their actions? I certainly hope you don't. The point is that doing the right thing is hard, and supporting Vic is the wrong thing, regardless of how small you perceive the support or it's effects to be, and it doesn't matter who's watching when you do it.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 pm
Finally, you have done a great deal of projecting and insinuating in this thread and I don't appreciate it. You're accusing me of just offering the opposite opinion of everyone else when I simply don't think of Phoenix's actions in this situation as morally binding to anything. If he gets this autograph, he has to live with the decision, but it's a decision to which I don't think there are really any consequences, so that's why I'm encouraging him to get it if he wants to.
I'm not accusing you of being a contrarian, I knew full well that you wanted him to get it regardless of what it meant, because you started the first thing you said was "Don't listen to everyone else. Listen to me.". That's not a good way to navigate any argument, but more importantly it's making light of the discussion and the intent of the person doing it, and is exactly how pretty much everyone tolerant and even in favor of Vic's actions talks, all of the time. Can you in any way deny that paying for the autograph (and subsequently contributing to a positive reputation) of a known sexual abuser is in conflict with the ideal that sexual assault is bad and we shouldn't be tolerant of abusers? Because that's what's on the table here. Your arguments are all what would apply if someone already agreed with you and said "no there's nothing wrong with that", and that's why I'm refusing to hear them.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am

I have not once used the words "Don't listen to them, listen to me." That's you making inferences about what I'm saying. I haven't denied that I support Phoenix getting the autograph if that's what he wants, but you're still accusing me of trying to sway him to the dark side or some other ridiculous shit that I'm not really doing. I'm just not letting outrage culture influence my opinion on the issue of this person getting an autograph that he might want. These things can all exist separate from each other, which is something I think you fail to understand. It's not even about separating the art from the artist. It's about making choices and living with them. Morality is a spectrum and all people inevitably skew more in one direction based on the choices they make. I'm standing by my opinion that I don't think Phoenix getting Vic's autograph moves that needle very much.

You can't say for certain either that getting this autograph would set Phoenix down a path of being tolerant of bad judgment calls. That's just what you expect to happen based on your perspective on this issue. And I certainly don't think my response is worth more than anyone else's, I just knew this thread was going to be 99% "don't get the autograph unless you want to be a sexual abuse enabler" and not even consider that fact that getting autographs makes people feel like they own a piece of the show, and that in turn makes them happy. I think people should do more things that make them happy. Phoenix wouldn't be harming anyone by getting the autograph no matter how much you think paying $30 to have Vic take a marker to his toy box is going to somehow introduce more sexual abuse into the world.

I don't know much about this issue other than things I've read about it here. Yes sexual abuse is bad and I have sympathy for people harmed by it, but there have been actions taken against Vic already. There will hopefully be future legal actions if there is solid evidence to introduce in a court of law. Perhaps he'll lose his defamation lawsuit against FUNimation and lose even more money. This is kind of why I brought up the stuff about outrage culture. It's like you guys won't be happy until Vic is burned at the stake for what he did. Lots of awareness has been raised about what he did and he's going to be treated differently for it for the rest of his life. And that's deserved. A Dragon Ball fan getting his autograph isn't going to make Vic anyone's hero again, that fan is just going to be happy he has the autograph from his favorite character's voice actor.

For what it's worth to you or anyone else, I offered to send Phoenix my Movie 8 DVD which I got signed by Vic back in 2004 if I can find it. Free of charge so no one profits from it. It's sitting in a box somewhere at my father's house and I'd be happy to pass it on to him.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:16 am

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
I have not once used the words "Don't listen to them, listen to me." That's you making inferences about what I'm saying. I haven't denied that I support Phoenix getting the autograph if that's what he wants, but you're still accusing me of trying to sway him to the dark side or some other ridiculous shit that I'm not really doing.
Well, you haven't said those specific words, but you absolutely have tried to dissuade him from doing what myself and others are saying is right, characterizing it as people "looking to be appeased", yet carelessly excluding your own advice from the statement. And I'm not accusing you of "trying to sway him to the dark side", I'm saying that the things you are saying are unhelpful and against the sentiment of him asking the question in the first place.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
I'm just not letting outrage culture influence my opinion on the issue of this person getting an autograph that he might want. These things can all exist separate from each other, which is something I think you fail to understand.
It's not about understanding, it's about it being wrong. There's no moral upside the giving a sexual abuser your money, it's completely motivated by self-interest.

Also, again, generalizing people's reactions a longtime sexual assault scandal that has personally effected people IN THIS COMMUNITY as "outrage culture" really doesn't make you look like you're taking this seriously.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
It's not even about separating the art from the artist. It's about making choices and living with them. Morality is a spectrum and all people inevitably skew more in one direction based on the choices they make. I'm standing by my opinion that I don't think Phoenix getting Vic's autograph moves that needle very much.
If your morality skews in the direction of "sexual assault is bad", a thing OP seems to believe, giving Vic his money goes against that. It doesn't matter how much, we're simply informing him that it's a thing that exists.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
You can't say for certain either that getting this autograph would set Phoenix down a path of being tolerant of bad judgment calls. That's just what you expect to happen based on your perspective on this issue.
No, actually, I don't expect that. I never implied that it was a certainty either, just that it was a possibility, which it is. Again, nobody is arguing that this decision would be extremely harmful, but it would be some amount of that. It's not a neutral decision.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
And I certainly don't think my response is worth more than anyone else's, I just knew this thread was going to be 99% "don't get the autograph unless you want to be a sexual abuse enabler" and not even consider that fact that getting autographs makes people feel like they own a piece of the show, and that in turn makes them happy. I think people should do more things that make them happy.
Well, you certainly weren't afraid to dismiss everyone else's responses, you're doing it right now, so unless you're also dismissing your own response which would render the entire argument kind of worthless, that's wrong.

More importantly, the whole POINT is that making good decisions in spite of what makes you happy is what being a good person is all about. This is an incredibly minor thing to do, but it's also an incredibly minor thing to not do, but the bad actions of the person it involves are NOT a minor issue.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
Phoenix wouldn't be harming anyone by getting the autograph no matter how much you think paying $30 to have Vic take a marker to his toy box is going to somehow introduce more sexual abuse into the world.
And I'm not stopping any Thai slave camps by refusing to buy food products owned by Nestle, and even if people "FORCED" me to refuse, it still wouldn't make a big difference. But I can still say Nestle is bad, I can still know that I'm not personally contributing to their exploits, and I can tell other people my opinion. Everyone in this thread is perfectly entitled to tell him that giving money to a sexual abuser is bad, which it is, and you're never going to convince anyone that responding to them with "maaaan but it's all just the same respooonse" is a superior answer to the question of "should I give this sexual abuser my money".
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
I don't know much about this issue other than things I've read about it here. Yes sexual abuse is bad and I have sympathy for people harmed by it, but there have been actions taken against Vic already. There will hopefully be future legal actions if there is solid evidence to introduce in a court of law. Perhaps he'll lose his defamation lawsuit against FUNimation and lose even more money.
That doesn't exonerate him to a level where you can just say everything's good. A big part of the response is that Vic cannot be treated like the hero and god he tempered his creepy underage fanclub to worship. Banning him from conventions is a big part of this, but on an individual level, not going to see him at the ones he IS still at, not giving him money, not being nice to him, is the best way to get him to CHANGE HIS BEHAVIOR, which was the entire point of people reporting him over fifteen years ago. He's being held accountable because he refused that call, and he shouldn't be treated as just as okay as all the other VAs until he can admit what he did, that it was in fact wrong, and that he's trying to be better, and then SHOWING that statement to be true. Some personal apologies to everyone who spoke out against him wouldn't hurt either.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
This is kind of why I brought up the stuff about outrage culture. It's like you guys won't be happy until Vic is burned at the stake for what he did.
No, I just told you what would make everyone happy, and it is all 100 per fucking cent achievable with a budget of zero dollars. The "outrage culture" is the people saying "you're so offended it's just a hug" or "they're trying to RUIN HIS CAREEEERRRRR" or "THE SJEWS HAVE STRUCK AGAIN", not the ones trying to remove a big problem from a workplace of hundreds and fandom space of thousands.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am
Lots of awareness has been raised about what he did and he's going to be treated differently for it for the rest of his life. And that's deserved. A Dragon Ball fan getting his autograph isn't going to make Vic anyone's hero again, that fan is just going to be happy he has the autograph from his favorite character's voice actor.
Nobody said that it would. As I've said like five fucking times now? It's a personal thing. If your personal morals state that giving money to a creep like Vic is bad, then you shouldn't do it. If you're willing to ignore those just because you really want it, then you should question why you think it's okay, and be skeptical of your own emotions if there aren't any good answers to that question.

Your "it's just the internet man, not real life, you don't have to worry what these people think" statements actively discourage self-introspection at stuff like this, which is literally why he was asking for our opinions in the first place.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am

I mean, it's a mostly neutral decision though. It's an autograph on a toy. If I give him my DVD, it's an autograph on a DVD jacket that no one paid for because I got it signed in an era where voice actor signatures weren't something to be monetized. Honestly I think that's what's really got you twisted up here. You're so fixated on the money going to Vic equates to an endorsement of sexual abuse that you're not even willing to think of it in any other context. The reality just that we live in a world where that autograph costs $30 dollars so that's the only way to get it. If autographs were still free this wouldn't even be a thread.

You keep trying to counter with the fact that he's asking for our opinions in this thread as if the opinion of your side is the only one that matters. You're dismissing my opinion entirely because the result of it is he gets the autograph, and you think that's bad because Vic gets money/attention/whatever, so it creates a conflict with your opinion. You don't think that's a little fucked up? Just flushing somebody else's opinion because it doesn't match yours? People having varying levels of what they perceive as right or wrong and to me getting Vic's autograph isn't doing any harm to anyone so I don't see that as wrong. Sorry if you can't accept that.

If he feels as strongly about this as you do then, yeah he probably shouldn't get the autograph. But I don't think he does. I think he's read a little bit about the situation and seen outraged comments here and other places, where people constantly say things like "if you pay money for photo ops and signatures you're part of the problem" then it makes people like Phoenix here question doing relatively innocuous things like getting an autograph for his favorite character. That's why I don't think he should make the decision based on whether having the autograph would make him happy (or passing on the opportunity would make him regret it) rather than just decide not to get the autograph because he made a thread on Kanzenshuu during a time when the probability of anyone entering this thread to think of the decision he's trying to make in a different context was super low and then everyone encouraged him not to.

At this point you and I are stuck in a loop and I don't think it's really productive to keep going. I've made my opinion clear and even offered a solution to his dilemma should he decide spending money on the autograph is wrong. I'm cool with whatever he decides.
Last edited by obiwan23s on Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:34 am

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
You're so fixated on the money going to Vic equates to an endorsement of sexual abuse that you're not even willing to think of it in any other context.
Um... that's... kind of really important. The "endorsement of sexual abuse" thing... well it's not exactly something you should just... shrug off :? ...
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
At this point you and I are stuck in a loop and I don't think it's really productive to keep going. I've made my opinion clear and even offered a solution to his dilemma should he decide spending money on the autograph is wrong. I'm cool with whatever he decides.
This, on the other hand, is pretty cool of you. If Phoenix gets it from you for free, well, I guess that's wonderful for him! A guilt free way of getting what you want is almost always a good thing :) !
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by coola » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:58 am

I d say go for it, case is in court and all we can do is wait, if anyone like guy, they have every right to ask for autograph, i find Schemmel to be annoying primadonna at times (Refusing to come to panel with other English voices of Goku, because he thik he is best one) and would nver ask for his autograph, bu i have no right to belittle someone who would want to.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:27 am

i think someone being annoying/petty and someone being a serial abuser is....not even comparable.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 am

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
I mean, it's a mostly neutral decision though. It's an autograph on a toy. If I give him my DVD, it's an autograph on a DVD jacket that no one paid for because I got it signed in an era where voice actor signatures weren't something to be monetized.
Well, but that is different. I absolutely wouldn't attack anyone for having gotten Bill Cosby's autograph in the 90s. I would most fucking certainly take issue with getting it today.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
You're so fixated on the money going to Vic equates to an endorsement of sexual abuse that you're not even willing to think of it in any other context. The reality just that we live in a world where that autograph costs $30 dollars so that's the only way to get it. If autographs were still free this wouldn't even be a thread.
Sorry I can't divorce giving Vic money with who Vic is as a person? You can divorce an artist from the art, you can't separate the artist from the artist.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
You keep trying to counter with the fact that he's asking for our opinions in this thread as if the opinion of your side is the only one that matters. You're dismissing my opinion entirely because the result of it is he gets the autograph, and you think that's bad because Vic gets money/attention/whatever, so it creates a conflict with your opinion. You don't think that's a little fucked up? Just flushing somebody else's opinion because it doesn't match yours?
Of course that's fucked up, but that's not actually what I'm doing. You are participating in the very thing you seemingly criticized me for here. I would probably argue against someone saying "it's not going to be harmful", but that's not all you've said. You've specifically gone out of your way to distinguish your "it's not harmful" statement with "don't worry about what these people think" and "it doesn't say anything about you" and "it's no big deal" additives. There is a quantifiable difference between believing it wouldn't make a big difference to Vic and dismissing everyone who says otherwise as a part of a perceived "outrage culture" that's apparently supposed to be a recent thing I guess. After all, I don't believe it does make a huge difference, but I think refusing interaction with him on a larger scale would be beneficial, and that always starts with individuals.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 am
If he feels as strongly about this as you do then, yeah he probably shouldn't get the autograph. But I don't think he does. I think he's read a little bit about the situation and seen outraged comments here and other places, where people constantly say things like "if you pay money for photo ops and signatures you're part of the problem" then it makes people like Phoenix here question doing relatively innocuous things like getting an autograph for his favorite character.
But here you are shutting down that sort of discussion as if it's already something people should disagree with rather than something worth talking about. Depending on the issue, those things could and absolutely would make someone part of whatever hypothetical OTHER problem we're looking at provided they're done with knowledge of the potential harm they entail. You're attributing harm here as an innate quality actions either do or do not possess with little consideration for context.

Going back to my nestle analogy, on the rare occasion I do buy something they produce (because honestly, I do like their crunch bars), I view it as a poor decision on my part. I never rationalize it as a "good" decision, just a mistake I made that I hope doesn't impound problems that people fighting against multinational sweat shop corporations like that are working to stop in the first place. Vic's autograph here would be the candy bar, and the Thai slave labour would be systemic sexism in anime VA work and acting industries in general. Because of course he isn't going to help the "SJEWS DESTROYED VICS CAREER" conspiracy theory by getting an autograph. It's not an individually destructive decision, but this "yeah just do whatever" mindset can easily be taken to greater numbers of people, that in turn have more sway. And that's not harmless.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:23 pm

Sorry dude but you're way too emotionally invested in this Vic situation to keep having this discussion with. We're just going to keep going around this loop we've been in since our first exchange. I respect you standing your ground though.

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