So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:27 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:23 pm
Sorry dude but you're way too emotionally invested in this Vic situation to keep having this discussion with.
Actually, that's exactly why he SHOULD keep having this discussion.

Lack of care = Lack of effort. Lack of effort means less knowledge and more ignorance.

You WANT people who actually care about what they're talking about!
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:27 pm
Actually, that's exactly why he SHOULD keep having this discussion.

Lack of care = Lack of effort. Lack of effort means less knowledge and more ignorance.

You WANT people who actually care about what they're talking about!
And you know, that's a generally a good thing. I've tried to keep my thoughts focused on the outcomes of Phoenix either gets the autograph or doesn't, and how that might make him feel later on. He might not get another opportunity. People think of things selfishly because they are human. In the end you can completely devote your mind, body and soul to righteousness and still end up resentful over something like passing up an opportunity you never got again. You've probably got bigger problems if not capitalizing on the opportunity of getting a voice actor autograph makes you resentful, but just as Shaddy believes individual people not getting Vic's autograph will add up to something that makes a tangible difference, so can regrets. I believe that if you can get what you want without doing any harm, then there's not a problem. And there's no real harm being done by Phoenix getting Vic's autograph. The people who don't support Vic and the people who do support him will still be able to continue their discussions regarding his situation, but there will also be a happy Broly fan somewhere in the world smiling at his autographed toy (or DVD jacket once I find it). That's an outcome I support.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:54 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
Shaddy believes individual people not getting Vic's autograph will add up to something that makes a tangible difference
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:56 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
And you know, that's a generally a good thing. I've tried to keep my thoughts focused on the outcomes of Phoenix either gets the autograph or doesn't, and how that might make him feel later on. He might not get another opportunity.
You're thinking too narrowly, then. You removing his guilt give him temporarily relief, but also contributes to the long-term empowerment of a serial abuser. That trade off is not worth it.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
People think of things selfishly because they are human. In the end you can completely devote your mind, body and soul to righteousness and still end up resentful over something like passing up an opportunity you never got again.
On the flip side, you can indulge in every vice your heart desires, and you still won't find lasting happiness.

Struggle and disatisfaction is a part of life. At least with righteousness (a right relationship with God and the world he loves), you can have some lasting peace of mind.

Besides, "At least I didn't compromise my principles" brings much more lasting satisfaction than "at least I didn't pass up that autograph".
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
You've probably got bigger problems if not capitalizing on the opportunity of getting a voice actor autograph makes you resentful, but just as Shaddy believes individual people not getting Vic's autograph will add up to something that makes a tangible difference, so can regrets.
Regret is also a part of life. You cannot gain anything without sacrifice, one way or the other. Thinking selfishly won't take your regrets away... It will only add to them.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
I believe that if you can get what you want without doing any harm, then there's not a problem. And there's no real harm being done by Phoenix getting Vic's autograph.
Just because you can't see or hear the people being harmed doesn't mean you aren't doing harm.

Again, thinking too narrowly.
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
The people who don't support Vic and the people who do support him will still be able to continue their discussions regarding his situation, but there will also be a happy Broly fan somewhere in the world smiling at his autographed toy (or DVD jacket once I find it). That's an outcome I support.
And a serial abuser will be given yet another reason to not change. His ego will be boosted, and he'll walk out of that convention feeling like the coolest thing in town.

That is an outcome I do NOT support.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:27 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:54 pm
obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:36 pm
Shaddy believes individual people not getting Vic's autograph will add up to something that makes a tangible difference
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say this.
Shaddy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 am
After all, I don't believe it does make a huge difference, but I think refusing interaction with him on a larger scale would be beneficial, and that always starts with individuals.
Yes, you did.
Fionordequester wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:56 pm
You're thinking too narrowly, then. You removing his guilt give him temporarily relief, but also contributes to the long-term empowerment of a serial abuser. That trade off is not worth it.

And a serial abuser will be given yet another reason to not change. His ego will be boosted, and he'll walk out of that convention feeling like the coolest thing in town.

That is an outcome I do NOT support.
I get where you're coming from but I don't agree that I'm thinking about it narrowly. I think it's actually fairly healthy for adults to put some amount of emotional separation between themselves and issues they talk about. For instance, I've said I sympathize with sexual abuse victims already in this thread. However, I unfortunately can't really do anything to help this situation other than not contribute acts of sexual abuse into the world myself. In the grand scheme of things, I'm a relatively anonymous person and even some people in this thread are already not listening to me or considering my point of view. I certainly want to put effort into making the world a better place, but I believe in the sphere of influence. You take care of those in your circle and if you're in theirs, they should do the same. If that happened, it would rid the world of quite a lot of suffering in my opinion.

Vic's still going to have a legacy enshrined in classic anime characters he provided the voice of no matter how this all plays out because those series will outlive us. You guys can take that other thread about Vic to over 9000 pages and it won't be any less true. There's already so many people involved in this situation, from other voice actors, fans, convention staff, YouTubers, lawyers for the people on each side that I don't feel I have anything to add to the discussion. Certainly not anything that's going to be heard over the rest of the noise. I don't think anyone will be digging through people's online history to see which side of the Vic situation they were on any time in the future, so I'm separating that from the act of purchasing an autograph. If he wants it and is able to accept and live with the decision, he should get it. Kick Vic and I Stand With Vic will keep going either way.

I support you guys being able to speak your opinion and I really do thank you for engaging with me in the discussion, but I think we've officially reached "agree to disagree" territory here. It seems like Super World Con will be over shortly, and short of Phoenix following up in this thread with what he decided to do, there's not much else to talk about.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:52 am

obiwan23s wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Yes, you did.
Funny how that literally doesn't say the thing you're pretending it says.

Also, how many times are you going to declare the discussion over before you actually stick to that?
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:53 am

Shaddy wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:52 am
Funny how that literally doesn't say the thing you're pretending it says.
Ironic coming from you, who falsely paraphrased my comments into "Don't listen to them, listen to me" when I didn't literally say that. How's that shoe feel on the other foot?
Shaddy wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:52 am
Also, how many times are you going to declare the discussion over before you actually stick to that?
I mean, is it not over? There's no new points being made. I made a few posts in response to Fionordequester. You just keep coming back trying to get the last laugh or something. I dunno. To answer your question, uh, I guess two? Maybe three? I might have to reply to you again.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:34 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am
Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:33 am
Also I’d appreciate if you replied to my post if you’re responding to me.
I've done that on occasion, too; generally when I wanted to make a larger point, and I only wanted my response to make up a small part of my post... Or when I just felt like it.

I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt Shaddy meant to snub you in any way.
not to mention, i always thought that like quoting a post right above yours was generally viewed as like bad on forums ? i suppose it's one of those things that's so minor it doesn't matter, but i dunno i've gotten that vibe from a bunch of forums i've been on lol.
Still, because the person you’re replying to would have no idea you’re talking to them. I’ve seen some people reply but take out the other persons name so they don’t get a notifcation. Like why? That’s just silly and it makes it harder for responses. I found his response by complete accident when checking the thread for any new posts.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:44 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:34 am
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

not to mention, i always thought that like quoting a post right above yours was generally viewed as like bad on forums ? i suppose it's one of those things that's so minor it doesn't matter, but i dunno i've gotten that vibe from a bunch of forums i've been on lol.
Still, because the person you’re replying to would have no idea you’re talking to them. I’ve seen some people reply but take out the other persons name so they don’t get a notifcation. Like why? That’s just silly and it makes it harder for responses. I found his response by complete accident when checking the thread for any new posts.
that latter part is more understandable. when you're responding to multiple posts in one post or just trying to respond to a portion of one post, it's a lot easier to just copy those parts, and paste them in the [ quote][/ quote] command, which won't have a username attached too it.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Shaddy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:53 am
Ironic coming from you, who falsely paraphrased my comments into "Don't listen to them, listen to me" when I didn't literally say that. How's that shoe feel on the other foot?
Well, your posts actually did say that. They literally start with "you don't have to listen to anyone else", then tell OP what you think he should do anyway. It doesn't literally say that, but that is the message that is sent regardless.

In no way, literally or otherwise, does "large numbers of individual fans not tolerating Vic's behavior is a big piece of stopping that behavior" mean "if you get this autograph everything is going to get worse for sure". I had that whole paragraph about how buying a Nestle candy bar doesn't contribute much to Thai slave camps for this exact reason, but I still don't want that association. Moreover, figuring out how to hold multinational sweat shop corporations accountable for that will not make buying the candy bar any worse.

More importantly, even if that weren't the case, that doesn't make you doing the same thing justified or acceptable. Are you trying to troll me? If you were really disaffected by my dissection of your earlier statements, why "stoop to the same level" instead of leaving with your "dignity"?
obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:53 am
I mean, is it not over? There's no new points being made. I made a few posts in response to Fionordequester. You just keep coming back trying to get the last laugh or something. I dunno. To answer your question, uh, I guess two? Maybe three? I might have to reply to you again.
Well no, because I never agreed to that in the first place, you seem to think everything you say is accompanied by a door slam or a mic drop, but you keep leaving the door partway open with bait and false statements, and are now trying to blame me for opening that door that only you wanted to close. I can do this for weeks, don't think I won't. If you want a discussion to actually be over, you need to stop participating in it. If anything gives off a "last laugh" impression here it's you lying about what I was saying, then making a ridiculous false equivalency between that and me telling you what the things you said before meant.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Akamay » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:17 pm

PhoenixEX wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:53 am
You guys are right though, having his autograph would essentially be a reminder of the stuff he did but I guess to me, like I said, it's more about separating the man from the art.
(...)
Also, just to be clear, I believe the man is guilty.
(...)
Made a few snips to shorten the length of the post a bit.

What I can ask you mostly is:
"Will you personally gain anything emotionally by having the man's autograph?"

If you feel that you still want his autograph regardless of what's been going on, there's not much anyone could tell you that would make you change your mind and still have you satisfied with that decision.
If you feel that the autograph does not mean that much to you to the point where it would not make any difference for you personally, why bother?
My main point is really: how much do you want the autograph, how much do you appreciate the man's work and how much does the recent controversy affects your views on what the man has done before.

The important thing is mostly to make a decision and know that you will not regret it later.
Probably read some of the stuff that came out about this case until you're caught up before deciding.

If you feel like you are going to regret not getting it, then get it.
If you feel like you are going to regret getting it, then don't get it.

Can't really help out more than this, I think.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by TVfan721 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:05 pm

I deleted my picture with Vic. I met him back in 2017 at Fan Expo and got a photo. I was very happy to delete that photo when the allegations came out and had no problem doing so.

And I completely wiped it out from social media too. It's long gone. Yes, I paid for that photo and I was still glad to get rid of it.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:19 pm

Shaddy, if it's not clear to you yet that no matter how many times you explain your point that I'm not going to agree with it, then I dont know what else I can say. This is indicative of a discussion reaching its end. Any further effort on my part is indeed just going to be trolling, because we're just going around in circles and you just admitted you'll keep responding if I do. I've run out of patience with you and your sad act of moral posturing. You seem far more concerned about the moral consequences of decisions made by people who aren't you than you should be. Good luck with that.

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Saiga » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:31 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:19 pm
Shaddy, if it's not clear to you yet that no matter how many times you explain your point that I'm not going to agree with it, then I dont know what else I can say.
So stop saying things.
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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:45 pm

Saiga wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:31 pm
obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:19 pm
Shaddy, if it's not clear to you yet that no matter how many times you explain your point that I'm not going to agree with it, then I dont know what else I can say.
So stop saying things.
:silent:

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 pm

obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:45 pm
:silent:
No, what he means is stop posting.

EDIT: That is, stop posting in THIS specific forum thread. Sorry if that was unclear before. I'm actually ON the autism spectrum, so I can see how that would be confusing.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by obiwan23s » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:58 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 pm

No, what he means is stop posting.

EDIT: That is, stop posting in THIS specific forum thread. Sorry if that was unclear before. I'm actually ON the autism spectrum, so I can see how that would be confusing.
Thanks for clarifying, I figured that but I did wonder lol. You've been nothing but civil to me in this thread, even though we didn't agree and I really appreciate that. So I will go ahead and do that now. :wave:

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:11 am

obiwan23s wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:58 pm
Thanks for clarifying, I figured that but I did wonder lol. You've been nothing but civil to me in this thread, even though we didn't agree and I really appreciate that. So I will go ahead and do that now. :wave:
My pleasure.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: So Vic Mignogna is going to Super World Con this weekend. Should I get my Broly Funko Pop signed or not?

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:59 pm

it's your life, do what you want, do you need someone's opinion when going to pee?

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