A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm

Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by omegacwa » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
That sounds like it could be right. I personally have never even seen this version. The couple of times it aired I just completely ignored it.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:14 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
That sounds like it could be right. I personally have never even seen this version. The couple of times it aired I just completely ignored it.
I was 12 when it first aired and didn't know the series that well so it was confusing to see everyone on Namek one week and back on Earth the next. It left me wondering if I missed something.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:27 pm



Yes, FUNi partnered with Pioneer (later Geneon) on the movie 1-3 dubs while Saban had no involvement there at all and thus the scripts were much more accurate to the Japanese versions compared to the series dub combined with those other things.
The movies also had a different English adapter.

Chris Forbis and Chris Neel were the writers during the Saban era. Ward Perry wrote the scripts for the Ocean/Pioneer films

When Funimation moved production in-house Terry Klassen was now being credited as a writer alongside Neel and Forbis


As far as Kay O Ken vs Kaio Ken, it’s entirely possible it was an Ian Corlette thing. Iirc Saffron Henderson screwed up pronouncing Kamahameha in Dragon Ball. Pronouncing it like Kamayhamaya

Not sure if The Pioneer films utilized different voice directors than the series.

Far as I can tell Funimation had little involvement with the first three movies. They pretty much just got a Special Thanks acknowledgment

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:38 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm

As far as Kay O Ken vs Kaio Ken, it’s entirely possible it was an Ian Corlette thing. Iirc Saffron Henderson screwed up pronouncing Kamahameha in Dragon Ball. Pronouncing it like Kamayhamaya
To be fair, isn't that the way they say it in the dub when like just talking about it, and not doing it as a attack ? That was always pretty confusing to me.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:41 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:14 pm
omegacwa wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
That sounds like it could be right. I personally have never even seen this version. The couple of times it aired I just completely ignored it.
I was 12 when it first aired and didn't know the series that well so it was confusing to see everyone on Namek one week and back on Earth the next. It left me wondering if I missed something.
That padding out theory is the best idea i can come up with, because there's really nothing else i can think of as to why they split up movie 3 into individual episodes and stuck it right in the middle of Season 2's syndication run.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:51 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:39 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:10 am
I also greatly prefer their actor for Oolong (whose name I can never remember sadly) because he was the only voice not to do the kind of 'chain-smoking 40-year-old' voice that both of FUNi's in-house takes go for, instead giving us something much closer to Tatsuta's original Japanese performance (a performance that I feel is greatly unappreciated by a lot of fans).
yeah funi's oolong and yajirobe voices have always felt so weird too me. like, why are they so deep, especially oolong. like yajirobe i sorta get because they were pretty far away from dubbing dragon ball when he was introduced, but still it just feels odd. i really have no idea what's going on with oolong though, lmao.
I’m pretty sure the direction for Oolong was to have him sound pig-like. It never really bothered me, outside of the fact that it obviously sounded too old for an eight or nine year old. I certainly prefer Brad Jackson’s take over Mark Britten and Bryan Massey.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:40 pm

I think I prefer all of the Ocean cast over the in-house crew. They were just far more talented. Unfortunately, I don't think that most of them were appropriately cast for their characters.

One thing that bugs me about the in-house Funi stuff is how much of the Texas culture that seeped through into the show. The actors' accents were all very noticeable and it felt like they were really trying to incorporate Texas into the scripts at times. To be fair, I'm not sure how obvious the Canadian background of the Ocean cast appeared in the Saban years, as I'm not as familiar with Canada as others may be. However it seemed to me like they mostly kept it from showing in their work.

omegacwa wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Did one of the writers think Sai and Kai were pronounced Say and Kay?
This wouldn't be too surprising. Or they may have just preferred the sound of "Say/Kay" over "Sai/Kai".

If they're gonna go so far anyways as to call the Saiya-jin "Saiyans", then the dub's pronunciation feels more natural in my view, and doesn't really come off too differently from the Japanese honestly.

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm
As far as Kay O Ken vs Kaio Ken, it’s entirely possible it was an Ian Corlette thing.
But wouldn't it have been Kaio-sama who first pronounced it that way? It seems it was already in the script/direction.

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:38 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm

Iirc Saffron Henderson screwed up pronouncing Kamahameha in Dragon Ball. Pronouncing it like Kamayhamaya
To be fair, isn't that the way they say it in the dub when like just talking about it, and not doing it as a attack ? That was always pretty confusing to me.
Yes but I believe this is in reference to the battle with Vegeta where Gohan does the overhead Kamehameha's. Saffron Henderson pronounced it that way specifically during that one scene.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:54 pm

Isn't Kameymeya how you pronounce the name of the Hawaiian king?

If so, that probably explains why they chose that pronunciation.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:47 am

I saw the Saban dub around early 2000 not long after it began airing in the UK, and also saw the Season 3 inhouse dub around the same time as we didn't have to wait long for it over here. I became very familiar with both casts around the same time and was very fond of both.

I loved the performances in the Saban dub, especially Ian James Corlett as Goku and Brian Drummond as Vegeta. I really liked the dark vibe of the Ron Wasserman score, as it really fit the bleak nature of the battles with the Saiyans, and also had a couple of really great upbeat themes like Goku's arrival, and the theme that plays when he catches bubbles.

Even though I ultimately ended up liking the US cast more, I still gravitate towards the Saban dub when I rewatch those first 2 seasons despite the censorship. I actually didn't mind "next dimension" as it made complete sense in the context of the series. What bothered me more was the way the Westwood dub handled it, saying "hurt" instead of "kill", even when it was obvious someone had died. They should have stuck with "next dimension".

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am

Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it. Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.

No, the one that gets me is when Tenshinhan gets his arm punched off and loudly proclaims 'Just wait until it grows back!'. Like...I get that they're probably trying to downplay the horrifying aspect of a guy's arm getting punched off, but is the message of 'if you lose an arm it'll just grow back eventually' really that great of a message to be passing on to the kids when you think about it? I would think not. :shock:
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:13 am

I don't think that's the message. The implicit message being sent is there are no lasting consequences to violence.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:25 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it. Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.

No, the one that gets me is when Tenshinhan gets his arm punched off and loudly proclaims 'Just wait until it grows back!'. Like...I get that they're probably trying to downplay the horrifying aspect of a guy's arm getting punched off, but is the message of 'if you lose an arm it'll just grow back eventually' really that great of a message to be passing on to the kids when you think about it? I would think not. :shock:
I'm surprised they didn't use something like "next world" as that also gets the message across as to where they go after death like the next dimension actually in the dub does and unless i'm mistaken the former is what the Japanese version says or sometimes the Other World. The "Just wait till your arm grows back" one though is just silly and totally ridiculous, because clearly he can't literally re grow his arm although it obviously does come back after he is revived in the Next World.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:30 am

ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:13 am
I don't think that's the message. The implicit message being sent is there are no lasting consequences to violence.
It might not be the intended message, but it's certainly one way that a kid would take it, and in that light it's not the greatest message to be trying to pass on. Not really sure that no lasting consequences are is the best one to really send either. If they were actually hellbent on sending a message, it probably would have been easiest/best to just have Goku remark to Nappa about 'See, you've done such terrible things, and now you're paying for it'.

Granted, they may not have been actively trying to send a message at all and were just side-stepping the violence as a matter of course, so no message may have been intended in the first place. It's still the one moment that makes me roll my eyes the most from that era though.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:42 am

Kids are naïve, but they aren't that stupid to think their arms would grow back.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:26 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it. Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.

No, the one that gets me is when Tenshinhan gets his arm punched off and loudly proclaims 'Just wait until it grows back!'. Like...I get that they're probably trying to downplay the horrifying aspect of a guy's arm getting punched off, but is the message of 'if you lose an arm it'll just grow back eventually' really that great of a message to be passing on to the kids when you think about it? I would think not. :shock:
It's a silly line in hindsight, but I think they were counting on us remembering Piccolo regrowing his arm, and hoped to convince us Tien could do the same.

Now that I think about it Tien did grow extra arms during the 22nd Tournament, so who's to say he can't actually regenerate lost limbs? :lol: He's certainly managed some bizarre techniques throughout the story, and there was that rumour about him not being human.

And there's another thing he has in common with Piccolo; the multi-form technique. If they can both do that then maybe they can both regenerate limbs. I know there's nothing official to hint at Tien being able to, but it's fun to think about.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by DrBriefsCat » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:33 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:41 pm
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:39 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:10 am
I also greatly prefer their actor for Oolong (whose name I can never remember sadly) because he was the only voice not to do the kind of 'chain-smoking 40-year-old' voice that both of FUNi's in-house takes go for, instead giving us something much closer to Tatsuta's original Japanese performance (a performance that I feel is greatly unappreciated by a lot of fans).
yeah funi's oolong and yajirobe voices have always felt so weird too me. like, why are they so deep, especially oolong. like yajirobe i sorta get because they were pretty far away from dubbing dragon ball when he was introduced, but still it just feels odd. i really have no idea what's going on with oolong though, lmao.
Yeah, FUNi dub Oolong has a very pronounced Brooklyn accent and it just sounds and always has sounded very weird with both Brad Jackson and Brian Massey's respective takes. I definitely prefer Naoki Tatsuta's performance because it just seems to fit his character way more than the former two.
Considering Tatsuta also voices Porky Pig in all Japanese media, it would've been interesting if Bob Bergen took a shot at the character in English. Some fans (and maybe Warner Bros) probably wouldn't like the idea, but it might replicate how a Japanese person hears the voice. I've heard samples of Porky Pig's Japanese dub voice and it's basically the same as Oolong.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:45 am

DrBriefsCat wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:33 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:41 pm
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:39 pm

yeah funi's oolong and yajirobe voices have always felt so weird too me. like, why are they so deep, especially oolong. like yajirobe i sorta get because they were pretty far away from dubbing dragon ball when he was introduced, but still it just feels odd. i really have no idea what's going on with oolong though, lmao.
Yeah, FUNi dub Oolong has a very pronounced Brooklyn accent and it just sounds and always has sounded very weird with both Brad Jackson and Brian Massey's respective takes. I definitely prefer Naoki Tatsuta's performance because it just seems to fit his character way more than the former two.
Considering Tatsuta also voices Porky Pig in all Japanese media, it would've been interesting if Bob Bergen took a shot at the character in English. Some fans (and maybe Warner Bros) probably wouldn't like the idea, but it might replicate how a Japanese person hears the voice. I've heard samples of Porky Pig's Japanese dub voice and it's basically the same as Oolong.
Now that would be interesting, because both of his FUNi VA's definitely don't really mix well with the character voice wise and it would be cool to have a performance that is more like Tatsuta's.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SheonGT » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:11 pm

I like the actors, McNeil’s Piccolo makes me nut and Drummond’s Vegeta is my favorite thing ever I love his asshole gremlin laugh and how Drummon consciously created the higher, little guy voice to contrast with Nappa.

Can’t stand the music. Currently of the opinion that the Kikuchi score is the objective best although I enjoy the American dub score too, so I tried to get into Wasserman’s stuff. It just sounded ugly to me. I don’t like rock the dragon and I double don’t like the weird orchestrated bit of RtD they use. The use of choirs sounded awesome and terrifying on paper but it’s just a midi or something there’s no part of the score I like.

The censorship is painfully obvious and I think if they used an accurate script the dub would be awesome even with the music. Shit like “just wait until it grows back”, “I can see their parachutes” and “too bad it’s a Sunday” among other things is just too cheesy to be enjoyable. Some of the punched up dialogue makes me laugh though like when Nappa says “Vegeta said we could get a real bundle for this planet. Maybe even two bundles!”

It’s weird how it ended halfway through the Namek saga I think to complete the story arc they should’ve committed to enough episodes to complete a third edited season to finish Frieza. I was surprised how much I liked the bits Pauline Newstone had as Frieza and I much prefer her to Young just because she sounds less feminine imo. The episode where he yells “Mr. Dodoria?!?” was a nice touch to show his politeness. So the scripts aren’t all bad. The episode cuts, transitions and edits are way too obvious and clunky for me.

All in all I didn’t like it as someone who watched the redub first but there’s definitely some stuff to like there so if you grew up on it, considering that’s all there was, it’s understandable to enjoy it
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:27 pm
If i'm going to be watching those particular arcs with FUNi's cast then Kai is my preferred go to form of the series as far as that goes given how far superior it is script and voice wise.
Absolutely. Unlike UUE, which was just a crappy half-measure, Funi's dub of Kai actually does do a proper redub job, does some necessary recastings, generally aims for accuracy, and just a higher standard of acting, scripting, etc.
omegacwa wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:20 pm
I love how because of the Ocean Dub script errors they had to leave stuff like KAO-Ken for the rest of the dub.
That wasn't a script error, that was Barry Watson insisting on an incorrect pronunciation.
Pretty much as soon as his hands were out of the pie, this stopped.
The Westwood dub (as well as the Pioneer movie dubs) went with the proper "KAI-O KEN" pronunciation, and once Funi finally got their shit together somewhat with Kai, they pronounced it correctly too.
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
Kind of.
DBZ season 2 was a 30-episode order. 3 of those episodes were Tree Of Might, the other 27 were what we came to know as Saban's Z episodes 27-53.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm
Not sure if The Pioneer films utilized different voice directors than the series.

Far as I can tell Funimation had little involvement with the first three movies. They pretty much just got a Special Thanks acknowledgment
The Pioneer films basically used the series cast with a few minor switches; it looks like Laara Sadiq was unavailable for movies 1 and 2 (in the role of Chichi), so Lisa Ann Beley stepped in, and similarly Alec Willows was unavailable to dub movie 3 uncut (in the role of Oolong), so Scott McNeil stepped in.
Roshi was also recast to Don Brown for the Pioneer movies.
And a few of the henchmen in movie 3's uncut dub were different to their castings in the Saban TV version. I suppose it's also worth noting that Ward Perry's performance as Turles was very different in uncut compared to the Saban version.
But otherwise, the cast was all as you'd remember from the Saban series dub, after the recastings that took place over the course of the 53 episodes.

As for Funi's involvement... You're correct. Basically, Funi licensed Pioneer to do some uncut dubbing of Dragon Ball Z. According to an interview at the time, "[...] there are some die-hard anime fans who would really rather see the uncut version, and for that we’re working with Pioneer. Pioneer is releasing uncut versions of the episodes as well as the TV versions, so for people who want to see the show uncut, that’ll also be readily available. For the uncut versions, they do a second recording–Pioneer basically oversees the anime script, and we coordinate to some extent with them."
So essentially, the idea was that Pioneer would be doing the uncut version independent of Funi, albeit using the same Ocean cast, and underneath Funi's license to do the show.
Take heed of this, though, ladies and gentlemen; if Saban hadn't cancelled Dragon Ball Z, we'd have likely got an accurate, Pioneer dub of DBZ in the late '90s, right alongside the TV version.
But alas, it is what it is.
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:54 pm
Isn't Kameymeya how you pronounce the name of the Hawaiian king?

If so, that probably explains why they chose that pronunciation.
Nah, the king is "Kame-hame-ha".
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it. Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.
Yeah, I always much preferred the Blue Water GT way of handling that; they would say "Hades". So, they could be told off for saying "Hell", but they were still able to communicate the same idea.
SheonGT wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:11 pm
It’s weird how it ended halfway through the Namek saga I think to complete the story arc they should’ve committed to enough episodes to complete a third edited season to finish Frieza.
The problem was that Saban decided to reshuffle their lineup in 1998, and ended up deciding to cut DBZ out, in favour of more shows that Saban themselves were producing.
Much as DBZ was an indisputable, big success, it made Saban more money to focus on stuff that they were doing themselves.
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