For the most part, if I recall correctly, the voices they went with were the obvious best choices. I just feel bad for Ceyli because she had already been cast as Goku and got dumped.Gyt Kaliba wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:03 amOh wow, I forgot all about that. I think they also had up different auditions for Pilaf, Shu, and Mai during that poll.
A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
- VegettoEX
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
I have the Shuu and Pilaf voice options, but I'm afraid the Goku ones may be lost to time (I was never able to find them on any old hard drives).
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- ABED
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
She was all wrong for the role to begin with. Her voice is too soft to voice a character as energetic as Goku.Poor Ceyli Delgadillo lost out on playing Goku, who she had already voiced.
And yes, I do absolutely remember those polls.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
By any chance do you remember who else was up for Goku? I’m guessing Kara Edwards and Laura Bailey but I have no clue.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
No, but I wish I could. I think the choices in the so called poll were designed to get the desired outcome FUNi wanted. I don't recall anyone sounding better than the choices they went with. That's not a testament to the actors we got.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Wow that's quite interesting if Kara Edwards was indeed one of the choices they had up for Goku in the poll, considering she was later cast as Goten and also Videl and of course Laura Bailey as well who was chosen as the voice of kid Trunks.
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Oh, I wasn't saying she was right for the role, it just sucks to be cast as the main character, voice them, and then be dumped.
Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Now that you mention it, here’s a video where Nadolny said she was given the role of Goku based on already being the voice of Gohan:ABED wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:59 pmNo, but I wish I could. I think the choices in the so called poll were designed to get the desired outcome FUNi wanted. I don't recall anyone sounding better than the choices they went with. That's not a testament to the actors we got.
(About six minutes in)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eVZrSOf4zHM
Of course memories are fallible and it’s possible Miss Nadolny just forgot or wasn’t aware but it does suggest the poll was bogus especially when there was already a precedent set for Kid Goku and Kid Gohan sharing a voice actress with Saffron Henderson.
Same with Chuck Huber as Pilaf. Ocean had already set the precedent that Pilaf and Garlic Jr would share the same voice actor and it’s a tad coincidental that fans supposedly voted for Huber.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
I don’t really get why there’s such a fascination with Goku and Gohan having the same voice actors. Sure, Nozawa voices every male member of Goku’s biological family who isn’t Raditz, but if the dub is going to have a different actor play Goten, what reason even is there for Goku and Gohan to have the same voice as kids, especially if they're just gonna grow up to have completely different voices? Schemmel and Hebert sound nothing alike, so the idea that their characters sounded identical to one another as kids is kind of silly.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
That is an exceptionally low bar.
Fair point.
I will note that better =/= good, however I do agree it is an improvement. I think a good part of it is the Saban scripts were just better-written in general, and likely with a longer timescale to work on them, meanwhile the OG Funi era, they were cost-cutting everywhere, so the scripts naturally weren't given a proper look.
UUE also has the benefit of taking those 1996 scripts and taking out a few of the more objectionable lines people often point to, as one of its many rather poor half-measures at attempting to improve on the '96 dub without actually doing the work of making a proper dub of the material...
It's rather a shame, really, that we have such a mess of bad, lazy decisions in with the good. But, nevertheless, yes, it was an improvement on their previous work, as is the case with basically every piece of work Funi did leading up to Kai TFC.
Indeed... However, the '95 dub had notably little of this. I don't think he was actually involved in any of the scripting, it was all handled in Canada. Interestingly, the '95 dub is also the most accurate piece of dubbing work Funi would put out (excluding the Pioneer movie dubs, naturally, since Funi's hands weren't in that) until pretty much Kai.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm It should be said a lot of the Funimation dubs problems from the start of 1995 Dragon Ball dub all the way to GT (and arguably the UUE since it stuck close to the 96 scripts even though I believe Watson was gone by then) was because of Barry. He seemed to be heavily involved with drastically changing the series to fit whatever was cool with American kids at time.
There's censorship, but it's generally rather free of the bullshit Funi tended to pad their scripts out with after 1995. Then, whaddayaknow, when Barry Watson got more hands-on for Z, things took a down-turn, and have never quite recovered, only really taking a major step out of it once Watson was firmly out of the picture. (Though the attitudes that lead to a lot of the unnecessary "adaptation", let's say, continue to this day, just in a more diminished, more subtle form. "ooh i forgot my tractor", "HFIL", "wrooooong", "totally pwn'd", etc. etc. Much as some people like to excuse such one-off comedic lines, when they're popping up at least a couple of times every episode, it does make one question if things have really improved, or whether they've in fact degraded since the Kai 1.0 dub...)
Perhaps. But assuming they were to continue onto season 3 very soon, as they most certainly assumed would happen given the strong ratings, the Pioneer deal, etc., the endpoint they went with made for a rather good cliffhanger to leave people on for a few months while they get to work on season 3. And it adds a TV special to their roster, which could only be a good thing... Unless they happened to suddenly be cancelled after that season, without warning...
I've always chalked this up to Funi's across-the-board cost-cutting they did at pretty much every level of production, starting from Saban's cancellation. It's really not much different to their decision to move away from calling on the services of Ocean.
Well, it's more that it's more expensive to produce two dubs than it is to produce one and sell it two ways.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm I also want to point out nothing was stopping Funimation, once they cut ties from Saban, from doing a faithful dub with the Japanese music intact and blah blah. They didn’t anyways. Because kids would have been deprived if Goku didn’t tell Burter he ate a lot of wholesome foods.
However, if Pioneer were going to make their own second dub and fund it themselves, that would mean Funi would only produce one dub, but get to sell two dubs. And they wouldn't even have to work on selling it themselves. Seems like a win-win.
Realistically, it's difficult to know exactly what was going on behind the scenes, but I think it stands to reason if Pioneer had still been handling home video, they'd have done their uncut dub. Precisely why Funi let Pioneer go is, admittedly, not certain, so I'm basically just speculating, but I like to think of it more as an educated guess than anything totally wild...
Funi let Ocean go, they let Pioneer go, they switched to a production method that allowed "uncut" DVD releases, etc., all starting from when Saban canned them. Calling all of this merely a coincidence would strike me as somewhat foolish. If Saban had renewed them for a third season, there would be no need, no drive for Funi to change anything. But with Saban out, they were where they were in '95/'96 again, and had to rethink their strategy... So, just like in '95/'96, everything was kicked up and shuffled around...
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, yeah, Funi really didn't care; the only reason we nearly got an accurate dub is because Pioneer were going to do it, and thus Funi wouldn't have to spend a penny on it, but would get money out of it... But we didn't get it, because Funi found a way to cheap out even further.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Indeed
Fair point.
They had the benefit of being essentially the 1996 scripts without the heavy censorship memos and the scenes that were removed put back in.UUE also has the benefit of taking those 1996 scripts and taking out a few of the more objectionable lines people often point to, as one of its many rather poor half-measures at attempting to improve on the '96 dub without actually doing the work of making a proper dub of the material...
I know they “fixed” some stuff but Bardock being a buh-rilliant scientist! is small potatoes to some of the crap Funimation pulled during the Cell saga which relied heavily on the Red Ribbon saga for backstory and made it apparent what a mistake it was for Funimation to skip most of Dragon Ball since they managed to get basically everything wrong; stuff that was never corrected for the remastered sets well after Dragon Ball had been dubbed.
It's rather a shame, really, that we have such a mess of bad, lazy decisions in with the good. But, nevertheless, yes, it was an improvement on their previous work, as is the case with basically every piece of work Funi did leading up to Kai TFC.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wsdhnR0Y3Ho
He was one of the credited writers. Barry Watson actually flew down to Canada and was pretty heavily involved with the day to day production of the series.
Interestingly, Chris Forbis and Chris Neel were the only credited writers for Z during the Saban days. When ADR work moved in-house the only change was Terry Klassen was now part of the writing team. Or at least started being credited as such. Make of that what you will.
Undeniably the dialog got waaaaay worse in season 3 than it did in season 1 and 2 and season 1 and 2 were hardly The Sopranos to put it mildly. I have no idea if someone at Ocean was checking through the scripts to make sure the more idiotic parts were taken out or what.
Again, I disagree. It did some pretty heavy rewrites most of which were recycled into the 2001 redub. Parts of Funi’s Dragon Ball were pretty well done. Namely the 21st Tournament saga tended to have pretty dead on translations then they went back to butchering it.Interestingly, the '95 dub is also the most accurate piece of dubbing work Funi would put out (excluding the Pioneer movie dubs, naturally, since Funi's hands weren't in that) until pretty much Kai.
And the first Broly movie was pretty faithful.
But yeah the BLT dub had tons of added crap some for the need to “censor the show” and some to make the show “funnier” which was probably Barry.
“I wanna chew on these bones but I’m too scared”There's censorship, but it's generally rather free of the bullshit Funi tended to pad their scripts out with after 1995.
“Stop crying kid, I’m in the mood for a happy meal!”
Lot of added jokes in the 95 dub almost all of which got used in the in-house redub.The dialog was way less cringe than the shit they pulled in the immediate post-in house take-over during Namek, to be sure.
Not the point. They didn’t need to have two dubs. They could have done just the faithful dub. The Pioneer movies already set a precedent for faithful scripts and the Japanese music intact (two of which played on Toonami even) but no they decided an uncut dub with even more childish dialog than the heavily censored Saban approved version and electronic technorock music blaring everything out was the way to go.Well, it's more that it's more expensive to produce two dubs than it is to produce one and sell it two ways.
However, if Pioneer were going to make their own second dub and fund it themselves, that would mean Funi would only produce one dub, but get to sell two dubs. And they wouldn't even have to work on selling it themselves. Seems like a win-win.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
... Which was a cheaper approach than getting a proper translation and a good writer on-board.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am The Pioneer movies already set a precedent for faithful scripts and the Japanese music intact (two of which played on Toonami even) but no they decided an uncut dub with even more childish dialog than the heavily censored Saban approved version and electronic technorock music blaring everything out was the way to go.
If Pioneer had gone on to make a second, more accurate dub, with Funi having to pay nothing, but getting money from Pioneer licensing it and selling it, then it'd be nothing but pluses for Funi. Remember; all Funi's ever cared about was the bottom line.
(To the rest of your points: Fair, all well made. I don't really have much else to say)
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
They had Steve Simmons doing the subtitles roughly around the time they started season 3 no? Maybe I’m wrong on that but it seems hard to buy they could pay someone to do accurate subtitles for the bilingual releases but using said individuals translations as a basis for the english adr script would have been mistaken.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:53 pm... Which was a cheaper approach than getting a proper translation and a good writer on-board.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am The Pioneer movies already set a precedent for faithful scripts and the Japanese music intact (two of which played on Toonami even) but no they decided an uncut dub with even more childish dialog than the heavily censored Saban approved version and electronic technorock music blaring everything out was the way to go.
I fully concede maybe they didn’t get Simmons hired in until after season 3 was dubbed but I thought it happened at the same time
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
It's fuzzy, but I don't think the entire run was dubbed alongside Simmons doing the subtitles.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:24 pmThey had Steve Simmons doing the subtitles roughly around the time they started season 3 no? Maybe I’m wrong on that but it seems hard to buy they could pay someone to do accurate subtitles for the bilingual releases but using said individuals translations as a basis for the english adr script would have been mistaken.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:53 pm... Which was a cheaper approach than getting a proper translation and a good writer on-board.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:41 am The Pioneer movies already set a precedent for faithful scripts and the Japanese music intact (two of which played on Toonami even) but no they decided an uncut dub with even more childish dialog than the heavily censored Saban approved version and electronic technorock music blaring everything out was the way to go.
I fully concede maybe they didn’t get Simmons hired in until after season 3 was dubbed but I thought it happened at the same time
Admittedly, I do think some of the scripts may have been done based on Simmons work, but judging from what Chris Sabat was saying about the scripts the dub crew was working with in his Geekdom interview, I don't think Simmons work made it to the dubbing crew regularly, if ever.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
I happen to have already written up some of this for the wiki, so this may shed some light on the timing of Steve's work versus what dubbing was up to at the time:
It was then in July 2000 that they actually revealed it was Steve himself doing it, but that's not necessarily the important part here.Kanzenshuu Wiki That We Swear Actually Exists wrote:Iterations of "The Dragon Ball Z Anti-Censorship Petition" on toriyama.org in early 1999 went on to set the groundwork for future releases from FUNimation. 3,562 signatures were received in support of an uncut home video release, while 1,631 signatures were received in support of uncut, bilingual, subtitled DVD releases; these signatures were provided to FUNimation CEO Gen Fukunaga by the site's administrative staff.[4]
That summer, the staff of toriyama.org began to work directly with FUNimation to investigate the feasibility of and business plan for releasing uncut, bilingual, subtitled DVD releases for the Dragon Ball franchise in America. On 01 October 1999, Brian Real posted a news story on toriyama.org formally announcing the upcoming DVD releases.[5] At the time, it was presumed the the fourth Dragon Ball Z theatrical film would be among the first of these DVD releases, and that the television series would pick up with "Season Three" (roughly episode 68) of the Dragon Ball Z television series; the first in this new line of DVDs to make it to market were "Captain Ginyu: Assault" and "Captain Ginyu: Double Cross" in June 2000, covering Dragon Ball Z television series episodes 68-70 and 71-74, respectively.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
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:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Yeah, toriyama.org. Those were good times. I can't believe it's been 20 years already, though.VegettoEX wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 am I happen to have already written up some of this for the wiki, so this may shed some light on the timing of Steve's work versus what dubbing was up to at the time:
It was then in July 2000 that they actually revealed it was Steve himself doing it, but that's not necessarily the important part here.Kanzenshuu Wiki That We Swear Actually Exists wrote:Iterations of "The Dragon Ball Z Anti-Censorship Petition" on toriyama.org in early 1999 went on to set the groundwork for future releases from FUNimation. 3,562 signatures were received in support of an uncut home video release, while 1,631 signatures were received in support of uncut, bilingual, subtitled DVD releases; these signatures were provided to FUNimation CEO Gen Fukunaga by the site's administrative staff.[4]
That summer, the staff of toriyama.org began to work directly with FUNimation to investigate the feasibility of and business plan for releasing uncut, bilingual, subtitled DVD releases for the Dragon Ball franchise in America. On 01 October 1999, Brian Real posted a news story on toriyama.org formally announcing the upcoming DVD releases.[5] At the time, it was presumed the the fourth Dragon Ball Z theatrical film would be among the first of these DVD releases, and that the television series would pick up with "Season Three" (roughly episode 68) of the Dragon Ball Z television series; the first in this new line of DVDs to make it to market were "Captain Ginyu: Assault" and "Captain Ginyu: Double Cross" in June 2000, covering Dragon Ball Z television series episodes 68-70 and 71-74, respectively.
And as for whether or not that's the important part, it was important enough to me.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
I suddenly feel vastly unqualified to be posting in this thread.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
Getting back to the original topic at hand, the Ocean dub is largely just a curiosity for me. I got into the series around the time that the redub starting to get going with the in-house cast, and my only exposure to the Ocean cast was the Over 9,000 meme and finding the odd old dub episode on YouTube. At the time, I thought I was watching a vastly superior version.....when in reality I was just watching a version with proper episode lengths and blood. Watching the uncut Pioneer dub of Tree of Might though was like stepping into an alternate universe.
Looking for these rare items/information:
Any information or recordings pertaining to Dragon Ball Z's syndicated run on WAWB
Any information regarding the stations that carried the origin Dragon Ball in the USA
Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them
Any information or recordings pertaining to Dragon Ball Z's syndicated run on WAWB
Any information regarding the stations that carried the origin Dragon Ball in the USA
Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact
I recall that I got into the series really young, around the 2002 timeframe, JUST before the redub happened. As a kid in the early 2000s, I only saw a handful of episodes from the Namek saga (like the one where Zarbon transforms) as well as the Oozaru Vegeta episode from the Saiyan Saga and the uncut dub for Dead Zone, which I got on vhs or dvd. I can relate to the experience of discovering FUNi-Ocean era stuff many years down the road, but at the same time the cast and music is not completely foreign to me either, like it would be for an 18 year old today.gokaiblue wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:45 pm Getting back to the original topic at hand, the Ocean dub is largely just a curiosity for me. I got into the series around the time that the redub starting to get going with the in-house cast, and my only exposure to the Ocean cast was the Over 9,000 meme and finding the odd old dub episode on YouTube. At the time, I thought I was watching a vastly superior version.....when in reality I was just watching a version with proper episode lengths and blood. Watching the uncut Pioneer dub of Tree of Might though was like stepping into an alternate universe.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"
- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub
- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub