Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

[HakkaiBills93]

To be honest, the whole broadcast audio saga was so tiring, and so full of petty drama, badmouthing, etc. I'm just so tired of it, even now, months after it was kind of "Over". I guess I wanted to believe there was a silver lining that Sabat, if he had the motivation to get it done, could get it on a release.

I guess it was all just a pipe dream, in the end. And as of right now, I'm not sure I care anymore. Maybe it could get on an official release, maybe it couldn't. Sabat said he'd try his best, maybe even if he had, it wouldn't matter. He lost his enthusiasm anyway, and no one else seems to care, so...

He probably could have done nothing, Toei now check EVERYTHING in any release and are very strict about what is been used, they can't use any visual that are not from Toei, nothing that came from Toei can't be used that's why AB group couldn't even use amazon web dll to replaced censored frames in z HD movies
i read somewhere here someone that said that AB and Toei was in nice relationship it's perfectly wrong , Toei have been in the past in conflict with AB that's why AB loose all dbrights in 2011 (ab released dbkai 1-98 on dvd before kaze got the rights and some movies after just because they loose rights), some companies used visual for covers that was "homemade" or used some illustrations without any rights or paying for theirs used, some illegal released was even made (ufo robo grendizer was released in france by a company called declic image on 3 dvd box without Toei's approval) that kind of things explain why now they control EVERYTHING
Funi can use their own filmprint cause they got it from Toei, that's why AB could remaster movies 7-11 and partially 12-13) but nothing coming outside

The possibility of a future official release from AB, SV, Funi, or Toei having broadcast audio is zilch, I guess... To be honest, if I could, I'd forget the broadcast audio saga ever happened. Just a huge mess of personal drama with no real constructive results.

Sorry to be a downer.

Still, hopefuly AB's Blu-ray at least has decent video.

Either way, at the end of the day, it's just a dumb Japanese cartoon from the '80s/'90s. If it doesn't have optimal audio and video, that's no great loss, I guess. Let's just hope better home video is on the horizon, I guess.

if you didn't claim being involve and spread lies, you'll have spared you pain...


AB don't have filmprint for the whole show, kaze germany "remastered" dvd use AB censored material and it's not even filmprint so thinking that they'll use 16mm film is just a dream cause back in time it was current that, as much M&E tracks and filmprint were allways returned by companies to Toei that's why they couldn't uncensored the show or reddubed missing lines, it would have required asking m&e track again (so paid for that) and ask 16mm films what i seriously don't think that it will happened , only movie 12 and 13 m&e track have never been returned by AB to Toei) AB (aka mediawan now) are not really "rich" , they loose most of their old catalog rights, their manga channel only have at least 10-15 show that allways rerun constantly so thinking that they'll remaster them is a dream
moero top striker is a french coproduction, that's why filmprint are allways in france (and it's only 49ep) but not DB ones

about db broadcast audios, thinking that Toei allways own dbgt cinetape audios, what make people thinking that they don't have cinetape audios from others show or other db series but lies somewhere and they just don't bother to used them?
i mean there is no official document that say about them being lost (or i didn't see it personnaly) when i asked AB guy he didn't trusted me that Toei as Producer didn't have every cinetape about their show (he can be wrong but i mean that i never found any official document saying that Toei throw them, all i have seen is kei saying that he read it heard it

[Robo4900]

He probably could have done nothing, Toei now check EVERYTHING in any release and are very strict about what is been used, they can't use any visual that are not from Toei, nothing that came from Toei can't be used that's why AB group couldn't even use amazon web dll to replaced censored frames in z HD movies
i read somewhere here someone that said that AB and Toei was in nice relationship it's perfectly wrong , Toei have been in the past in conflict with AB that's why AB loose all dbrights in 2011 (ab released dbkai 1-98 on dvd before kaze got the rights and some movies after just because they loose rights), some companies used visual for covers that was "homemade" or used some illustrations without any rights or paying for theirs used, some illegal released was even made (ufo robo grendizer was released in france by a company called declic image on 3 dvd box without Toei's approval) that kind of things explain why now they control EVERYTHING
Funi can use their own filmprint cause they got it from Toei, that's why AB could remaster movies 7-11 and partially 12-13) but nothing coming outside

I see.

I assumed Toei didn't care, because they allowed Funi to make HD versions while Toei didn't have that in Japan, and they didn't seem to care much about the artistic integrity of the shitty releases... But, no, what you say makes a lot of sense.

Again, I think I was probably just being too optimistic. The broadcast audio saga was a mess, and I wanted a silver lining that wasn't there.

if you didn't claim being involve and spread lies, you'll have spared you pain...

I was involved, as a part of a team of people trying to get audio to pass on to Derek Padula (via one particular team member) who then passed stuff on to Chris Sabat, and I was at least partly responsible for that team beginning to send stuff to Padula, and thus to Sabat, and I never knowingly spread any lies in regards to any of this. In fairness, this was 4 years ago, and I was only one cog in the machine, so maybe I have the wrong idea about some of this. But VegettoEX closed the last thread on this, so I suggest we keep all that talk to PMs.

AB don't have filmprint for the whole show, kaze germany "remastered" dvd use AB censored material and it's not even filmprint so thinking that they'll use 16mm film is just a dream cause back in time it was current that, as much M&E tracks and filmprint were allways returned by companies to Toei that's why they couldn't uncensored the show or reddubed missing lines, it would have required asking m&e track again (so paid for that) and ask 16mm films what i seriously don't think that it will happened , only movie 12 and 13 m&e track have never been returned by AB to Toei) AB (aka mediawan now) are not really "rich" , they loose most of their old catalog rights, their manga channel only have at least 10-15 show that allways rerun constantly so thinking that they'll remaster them is a dream
moero top striker is a french coproduction, that's why filmprint are allways in france (and it's only 49ep) but not DB ones

I see.
I thought, since Funi has film of it all, and has had it since at least the '90s, that these companies tended to just keep their film masters. Especially since France did that remaster of Z movies 7-11 way back.

I guess I never really thought much about it, though. I just heard "French HD version" and knew France had film at some point, so I assumed it was like Funi.
I guess that's what I get for jumping to conclusions.

about db broadcast audios, thinking that Toei allways own dbgt cinetape audios, what make people thinking that they don't have cinetape audios from others show or other db series but lies somewhere and they just don't bother to used them?
i mean there is no official document that say about them being lost (or i didn't see it personnaly) when i asked AB guy he didn't trusted me that Toei as Producer didn't have every cinetape about their show (he can be wrong but i mean that i never found any official document saying that Toei throw them, all i have seen is kei saying that he read it heard it

My understanding was that GT's audio only exists because of the 1997 D2 videotape master...

I know Kei has previously said that Fuji had tapes of the original broadcast, and copies of those may still exist somewhere today.

It's certainly clear that Toei don't care much about this audio stuff, though, so unless there's a regime change, I doubt Toei will ever try to get good audio, whether they have it in-house on D2 videotape or not.

[kei17]

about db broadcast audios, thinking that Toei allways own dbgt cinetape audios, what make people thinking that they don't have cinetape audios from others show or other db series but lies somewhere and they just don't bother to used them?
i mean there is no official document that say about them being lost (or i didn't see it personnaly) when i asked AB guy he didn't trusted me that Toei as Producer didn't have every cinetape about their show (he can be wrong but i mean that i never found any official document saying that Toei throw them, all i have seen is kei saying that he read it heard it

The president of TAVAC (Toei Audio and Visual Art Center) clearly stated in his interview that speaking of TV series from the analog era, they had disposed of the magnetic audio masters of final mix and the M&E tapes are the only things left in their studio aside from some rare exceptions (like Voltes V, Sailor Moon, and so on, probably.)

The interview with Osamu Ichikawa:
http://www.stereosound.co.jp/review/art ... 395-3.html

市川　6mmテープ時代の作品は、MEは保存していますが、セリフやファイナルミックスは残っていません。というのも、すべてのテレビ作品の素材となると膨大な量になってしまい、保存しておく倉庫費用もたいへんな金額になってしまうことから、会社としてセリフやファイナルミックスのテープは廃棄するか、別の用途などに使いまわすようにという方針でした。

潮　もったいない！

市川　テープでファイナルミックスを完成させたあとは、フィルムにオプチカル・サウンドで記録して完成品としていたのですが、その時代の技師さんには、「オプチカルの音こそが自分たちのノウハウを詰め込んだ完成品だ」という考えがありました。そのため、手前の段階にあたるミックス済みテープの音を外に出しては困るという思いもあったみたいです。

Ichikawa: Speaking of the works from the era of reel-to-reel tapes, the M&E tapes are still preserved, but the final mix and dialog are not. It would have cost too much if we had stored every material from all the TV series, so we had a policy to dispose of tapes containing final mixes or dialog or reuse them for other usages.

Interviewer: What a waste!

Ichikawa: After finishing the final mix on a tape, they recorded it optically on film which becomes the final product. The sound engineers back then had an idea like "optical soundtrack is the truly completed product filled with our expertises." Because of this, it seems that they did not want the incomplete sound from magnetic tapes let out.

[HakkaiBills93]

I was involved, as a part of a team of people trying to get audio to pass on to Derek Padula (via one particular team member) who then passed stuff on to Chris Sabat, and I was at least partly responsible for that team beginning to send stuff to Padula, and thus to Sabat, and I never knowingly spread any lies in regards to any of this. In fairness, this was 4 years ago, and I was only one cog in the machine, so maybe I have the wrong idea about some of this. But VegettoEX closed the last thread on this, so I suggest we keep all that talk to PMs.

yes i know but publicly there is a need to be really "strict" about what you say cause allways saying "I" where you should use "my team" or "my friends" or simply saying anything that you didn't do personnaly , would have been more "reliable" cause each time that you say "i" it's like if you take credit said that YOU sended the audio to derek padula ^^
i was also in this "team in a way (why i knew about derek padula and could myself send him gt 27-64 and i never claimed being involve for anything else than what i personnaly did myself, it's like if i personnaly say that everything done in my companies was done by myself

I see.
I thought, since Funi has film of it all, and has had it since at least the '90s, that these companies tended to just keep their film masters. Especially since France did that remaster of Z movies 7-11 way back.

I guess I never really thought much about it, though. I just heard "French HD version" and knew France had film at some point, so I assumed it was like Funi.
I guess that's what I get for jumping to conclusions.

Companies should have returned film print (at least when ab got the stuffs it was like that, maybe later it wasn't the case anymore but anyway censorship was done straight on filmprint in france and that's probably why most country that got stuffs from france, got exactly the same censorship. If AB allways having filmprint, don't you think that they'll have sended a "censored" version for each others country? i seriously don't think

Funimation idk and i'll not affirm anything but maybe they didn't returned filmprint or get the right to keep them

My understanding was that GT's audio only exists because of the 1997 D2 videotape master...
I know Kei has previously said that Fuji had tapes of the original broadcast, and copies of those may still exist somewhere today.
It's certainly clear that Toei don't care much about this audio stuff, though, so unless there's a regime change, I doubt Toei will ever try to get good audio, whether they have it in-house on D2 videotape or not.

Toei are not opened for anything, as an example when HD movies were released in japan i have seen a tweet from kei17 who have written to them about censorship, DNR and corrections, only things that they offer is to reprint the cover or ask a refund if i correctly remember so you can expect Toei having some kind of EGO and don't accept anything from lambda people. I can even say that they want to "control" everything unlike it was back in time with some visual etc

About Funimation i wonder :
- Why Chris Sabat if he really wanted so hard originally broadcast audios never tried to contact kei himself? i mean that as much i can understand that you need someone to take contact straight with a popular voice actor as much i don't understand how a voice actor couldn't send a simple PM to the audios source? i mean that it would have been done better and quickier. When chris evans have rewarded the kid that saved his sisters, he did it himself so why chris sabat would have required derek padula to get any BA? I only see two theories :
- Derek Padula wanted to be credited and that's why he wanted to be "between kei and chris sabat" (he could have gave an email or twitter profile and let kei straight with chris sabat but he didn't did it) personnaly in my message to AB guy i only said that if they are interested i can link him to the audios sources (what is for me the best and quickier method for someone that don't have any ego or need to be credited)
- Chris sabat was too lazy to contact kei himself or he didn't know how to contact the BA owner (meaning that kei was never quoted or linked)
In France it occurs that some "companies" hired fansubbers or used theirs "subs" meaning that they can contact people themselves, why Funimation or chris sabat couldn't?
Only the things that Chris Sabat didn't personnaly involve in anything officially like contacting kei and that everything was relying on Derek Padula and fans make the "legal" opportunity more joke looking than something really serious
if i really want something i try to get it personnaly, why Chris Sabat would have relied on someone else? mostly when years later nothing was done?

by kei17 » 01 Sep 2020, 21:35

HakkaiBills93 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2020, 20:13
about db broadcast audios, thinking that Toei allways own dbgt cinetape audios, what make people thinking that they don't have cinetape audios from others show or other db series but lies somewhere and they just don't bother to used them?
i mean there is no official document that say about them being lost (or i didn't see it personnaly) when i asked AB guy he didn't trusted me that Toei as Producer didn't have every cinetape about their show (he can be wrong but i mean that i never found any official document saying that Toei throw them, all i have seen is kei saying that he read it heard it
The president of TAVAC (Toei Audio and Visual Art Center) clearly stated in his interview that speaking of TV series from the analog era, they had disposed of the magnetic audio masters of final mix and the M&E tapes are the only things left in their studio aside from some rare exceptions (like Voltes V, Sailor Moon, and so on, probably.)

The interview with Osamu Ichikawa:
http://www.stereosound.co.jp/review/art ... 395-3.html

Thanks i linked this to him but i sadly don't expect anything, i am pretty sure that AB won't bother for that but who know i can be wrong, if miraculously he is interested, i'll linked him your profile and he'll see straight with you

[sangofe]

I'm not sure what happened here. Anyway, AB did what's considered a beautiful remaster of dbz movies 6-11 I believe it was. And it's considered the best release of those movies in 4:3.

AB remastered movies 7-11 (12 and 13 only have been restored where the old footage was censored, from what i know it's related to some "internal" members (like matoumalin well known on some french community) that managed to do passionate work on thoses movies, his team wasn't there for movie box 1 and have been stopped after the last "collector box" for db show


About AB I myself have contacted someone i know inside AB group about upcoming bluray release , he told me that he can't say anything. About Broadcast audios here is the discussion



to recap :
- AB like any companies Can't use anything didn't approved straight by Toei so it kill all liars that pretend things like Funimation able to do something with audios and Toei didn't caring about
- AB won't use BA i show him how it sound, i explained that Toei throw away the cinetape audios (what he didn't trusted, he think that they have them but didn't used them) and he ignored once i asked them to ask Toei or giving a contact email

Well, is there some kind of article about Toei throwing away the cinetape audio somewhere that could be linked to? Was this a representant from AB? They can't say anything about the remastering process of the video either?

[HakkaiBills93]

I'm not sure what happened here. Anyway, AB did what's considered a beautiful remaster of dbz movies 6-11 I believe it was. And it's considered the best release of those movies in 4:3.

AB remastered movies 7-11 (12 and 13 only have been restored where the old footage was censored, from what i know it's related to some "internal" members (like matoumalin well known on some french community) that managed to do passionate work on thoses movies, his team wasn't there for movie box 1 and have been stopped after the last "collector box" for db show


About AB I myself have contacted someone i know inside AB group about upcoming bluray release , he told me that he can't say anything. About Broadcast audios here is the discussion



to recap :
- AB like any companies Can't use anything didn't approved straight by Toei so it kill all liars that pretend things like Funimation able to do something with audios and Toei didn't caring about
- AB won't use BA i show him how it sound, i explained that Toei throw away the cinetape audios (what he didn't trusted, he think that they have them but didn't used them) and he ignored once i asked them to ask Toei or giving a contact email

Well, is there some kind of article about Toei throwing away the cinetape audio somewhere that could be linked to? Was this a representant from AB? They can't say anything about the remastering process of the video either?

kei did it and i linked it to the guy, if he managed to answered me about that, i'll link him kei's profile and they'll do whatever they want each others right after but seriously i don't expect anything with that kind of answer so don't raise your hope too much, mostly thinking that audios will need to be cleaned

[HakkaiBills93]

AB remastered movies 7-11 (12 and 13 only have been restored where the old footage was censored, from what i know it's related to some "internal" members (like matoumalin well known on some french community) that managed to do passionate work on thoses movies, his team wasn't there for movie box 1 and have been stopped after the last "collector box" for db show


About AB I myself have contacted someone i know inside AB group about upcoming bluray release , he told me that he can't say anything. About Broadcast audios here is the discussion



to recap :
- AB like any companies Can't use anything didn't approved straight by Toei so it kill all liars that pretend things like Funimation able to do something with audios and Toei didn't caring about
- AB won't use BA i show him how it sound, i explained that Toei throw away the cinetape audios (what he didn't trusted, he think that they have them but didn't used them) and he ignored once i asked them to ask Toei or giving a contact email

Well, is there some kind of article about Toei throwing away the cinetape audio somewhere that could be linked to? Was this a representant from AB? They can't say anything about the remastering process of the video either?

kei did it and i linked it to the guy, if he managed to answered me about that, i'll link him kei's profile and they'll do whatever they want each others right after but seriously i don't expect anything with that kind of answer so don't raise your hope too much, mostly thinking that audios will need to be cleaned so it will cost them time and people to do it

[HakkaiBills93]

Well, is there some kind of article about Toei throwing away the cinetape audio somewhere that could be linked to? Was this a representant from AB? They can't say anything about the remastering process of the video either?

kei did it and i linked it to the guy, if he managed to answered me about that, i'll link him kei's profile and they'll do whatever they want each others right after but seriously i don't expect anything with that kind of answer so don't raise your hope too much, mostly thinking that audios will need to be cleaned so it will cost them time and people to do it


by the way here he told that if they release DB on Bluray, it will be using what Toei Provided Them

[sangofe]

kei did it and i linked it to the guy, if he managed to answered me about that, i'll link him kei's profile and they'll do whatever they want each others right after but seriously i don't expect anything with that kind of answer so don't raise your hope too much, mostly thinking that audios will need to be cleaned so it will cost them time and people to do it


by the way here he told that if they release DB on Bluray, it will be using what Toei Provided Them

I notice the "if" there. So next question would be: was the article "Les Années Laser" published about AB preparing a blu-ray collector a hoax?
( https://dragonballsuper-france.fr/integ ... -ab-video/ )

[KBABZ]

GUYS, fix your dang quotes!!

[HakkaiBills93]

@sangofe
no the article is true even if they only confirmed movies
https://twitter.com/AB_Video/status/1276125420115701760

when i asked to my internal contact he said he can't say anything, only that if AB release the series it will be with what Toei will provide them

[sangofe]

@sangofe
no the article is true even if they only confirmed movies
https://twitter.com/AB_Video/status/1276125420115701760

when i asked to my internal contact he said he can't say anything, only that if AB release the series it will be with what Toei will provide them

I was being hopeful because AB remastered Burn! Top Striker well in HD, but with the information they having done censoring directly onto their material back in the day and the flooding of their archives I'm less optimistic and won't even dare hoping it's a true HD remaster. There's no reason for Toei to do it for AB and not Selecta Vision...

[HakkaiBills93]

@sangofe
no the article is true even if they only confirmed movies
https://twitter.com/AB_Video/status/1276125420115701760

when i asked to my internal contact he said he can't say anything, only that if AB release the series it will be with what Toei will provide them

I was being hopeful because AB remastered Burn! Top Striker well in HD, but with the information they having done censoring directly onto their material back in the day and the flooding of their archives I'm less optimistic and won't even dare hoping it's a true HD remaster. There's no reason for Toei to do it for AB and not Selecta Vision...

Top Striker is a French Co-Production so naturally producers allways have access to everything they produce if nothing bad happened

as an evidence i'll show this video that explain how the legal remaster (not the illegal one from declic images) about ufo robo grandizer dvd for AB was done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IMfMJECXfA
it is said that :

Toei did a 16mm film sd scan (if AB allways had them it would have been useless) that they straight provided on digital betas pre remaster versions to CNC (the Q-TEC like for AB back in time) CNC was supposed to remastered the digital betas . it's the usual process , that's CNC that DNR, sharpen, crop (you can see in the video that the digital betas have more footage on each side than the final result ) deshake etc
so i can say that AB don't have filmprint anymore else they'll have used them for grendizer show

there is three possibility
1) they use Selecta Remaster (the one i guess cause of how close selecta release was) sourced from the original digital betas they had back in time
2) Toei did a HD scan themselves and provide them to AB (it's possible cause they released 2 HD OVA NEVER RELEASED ANYWHERE ELSE) but i don't think as AB said in the magazine that they'll release once the remastering they are doing will fit them , what make me feel that or they'll alter the selecta one, or they'll do the same things as selecta and remastering the digital betas
3) AB by a way or another ask and got filmprint (what is for me around 5% possibility) and did the remaster themselves but considering mediawan situations, that selecta released DB few time ago (you also have to remember that back in time, France allways released dbz before db unlike now) i don't really trust about this situation to happen.

[Matches Malone]

I didn't want to start a new topic just for this one simple question, but does anyone know if these could potentially be released by other distributors like Funimation ? Has anyone said anything on the topic ?

[Robo4900]

I didn't want to start a new topic just for this one simple question, but does anyone know if these could potentially be released by other distributors like Funimation ? Has anyone said anything on the topic ?

There's no reason why not.

But Funimation most likely will not, because they don't care about the pre-Z anime in the slightest.

[sangofe]

I didn't want to start a new topic just for this one simple question, but does anyone know if these could potentially be released by other distributors like Funimation ? Has anyone said anything on the topic ?

There's no reason why not.

But Funimation most likely will not, because they don't care about the pre-Z anime in the slightest.

I hope Selecta vision's versions don't get spread!

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I hope other distributors will license these remasters. I'm really itching to support OG Dragon Ball again.

Probably unlikely Funimation will do it, if anything they will probably just re-release the 30th discs again in standard Blu-Ray cases, but Madman or Manga UK is a possibility.

[Robo4900]

I hope other distributors will license these remasters. I'm really itching to support OG Dragon Ball again.

Frankly, I'm with sangofe in not being keen on these "remasters" being spread. They're just a really shitty version of the Dragon Box masters really.

Supporting DB is good, but I'd rather it happen with an actually-good release, rather than the original anime becoming Funi's next target for shitty home video; they already did a number on it with the Blue Brick DVDs in 2009, I shudder to think what they'd do now.

Probably unlikely Funimation will do it, if anything they will probably just re-release the 30th discs again in standard Blu-Ray cases, but Madman or Manga UK is a possibility.

Yeah.

At this point, I don't see Funi ever doing anything new with the pre-Raditz anime. As far as they're concerned, it's on DVD, it's on streaming, people can get ahold of it if they want, and that's good enough.
But to be frank, if MangaUK did something with DB, I'd rather they just did a better DVD pressing of the old Funi digibeta masters, or even get ahold of the Dragon Box masters from Japan. Either would be better than the shitty SelectaVision version, by a long shot.

[Trachta10]

Is is possible that this release has details that are not visible in dragon box?

Look at the wrinkles in Goku's clothes

Selecta Vision, they are visible


Dragon Box, they are not


Dragon Box upscaled with the best public upscale model that exist for Dragon Ball (2x_DigitalFilmV4_Lite10-5_420k)


Dragon Ball project ai


and the wrinkles still not visible...
literally no upscale model can replicate what selecta vision did
So, what is going on here?

dragon box zoomed


selecta vision zoomed

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

Is is possible that this release has details that are not visible in dragon box?

Look at the wrinkles in Goku's clothes

Selecta Vision, they are visible


Dragon Box, they are not


Dragon Box upscaled with the best public upscale model that exist for Dragon Ball (2x_DigitalFilmV4_Lite10-5_420k)


Dragon Ball project ai


and the wrinkles still not visible...
literally no upscale model can replicate what selecta vision did
So, what is going on here?

dragon box zoomed


selecta vision zoomed

Oh god, ew. I'm sorry, but regardless of how much more in-focus things are on the BR, it reeks of a similar process that FUNi did to Z. It still looks like fucking water colors because the picture wasn't remastered properly. I'd still rather the Dragon Box footage. It's soft & could use a sharpening filter, but it doesn't look improper for how the show was drawn.