Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Trachta10 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:20 am

eledoremassis02 wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:43 pm
Aragami wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:35 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:05 pm

Weren't the Selectavision Dragon Box upscales? Are they color corrected? Do you have screencaps, I am interested in having a great Dragon Ball release. I'm hoping for the French one, but different releases intrigue me.
I will do my own version with french audio too.. (I speak french also... my native language)
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Those are pretty cool, if I recall they also have neat packaging (a weakness of mine). Unfourtunatly,I dont really have any skills that I think I can contribute to such a project. Do you plan on color correvtion, thats my one main drawback of the Dragon Box?
I tried some color correction, it is not perfect of course

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Zestanor » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:27 am

But they are authorized to use it. They are authorized to use the Japanese audio for Dragon Ball. Where it came from does not need to be mentioned anywhere. In theory this whole saga of the broadcast audio could have been a fake story, and FUNi just leaked a really impressively restored version of their optical audio.

If FUNi just did it, and Toei made a stink, FUNi could just say “oh, didn’t it always sound this good?” Basically, Toei could never prove anything illicit had happened.

To Pepsi’s point, it’s true that the broadcast audio has a few flaws. And the NEPs sometimes have ads for the movies. But the Dragon Boxes have those versions of the NEPs as extras, and really we should consider those versions the real NEPs.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by KBABZ » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:12 am

Zestanor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:27 am But they are authorized to use it. They are authorized to use the Japanese audio for Dragon Ball.
Not being specific enough: Funimation are likely only authorized to use the Japanese audio that Toei gave them.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:21 am

Zestanor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:27 am But they are authorized to use it. They are authorized to use the Japanese audio for Dragon Ball. Where it came from does not need to be mentioned anywhere. In theory this whole saga of the broadcast audio could have been a fake story, and FUNi just leaked a really impressively restored version of their optical audio.

If FUNi just did it, and Toei made a stink, FUNi could just say “oh, didn’t it always sound this good?” Basically, Toei could never prove anything illicit had happened.

To Pepsi’s point, it’s true that the broadcast audio has a few flaws. And the NEPs sometimes have ads for the movies. But the Dragon Boxes have those versions of the NEPs as extras, and really we should consider those versions the real NEPs.
IMO I wouldn't mind if a compromise had to be made where certain components had to be kept with optical audio due to higher quality equivalents not being available yet. As long as the main bulk of the episode is still there.
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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:31 am

Zestanor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:27 am But they are authorized to use it. They are authorized to use the Japanese audio for Dragon Ball. Where it came from does not need to be mentioned anywhere. In theory this whole saga of the broadcast audio could have been a fake story, and FUNi just leaked a really impressively restored version of their optical audio.

If FUNi just did it, and Toei made a stink, FUNi could just say “oh, didn’t it always sound this good?” Basically, Toei could never prove anything illicit had happened.

To Pepsi’s point, it’s true that the broadcast audio has a few flaws. And the NEPs sometimes have ads for the movies. But the Dragon Boxes have those versions of the NEPs as extras, and really we should consider those versions the real NEPs.

Making an awful lot of assumptions

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:42 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:49 pm
There was a interview that took place between season 1 and 2 of the dub where Gen Fukanaga stated Toei wouldn’t allow them to release subtitle releases of the Japanese version. It’s possible he was lying for PR reasons, but Chris Psaros theorized Toei didn’t want Funimation to release the Japanese episodes on Home Video because they hadn’t yet in Japan and didn’t want people importing the Japanese episodes from America just in case. And excluding the movies, it took until 2000 for Funimation to finally release subtitled Japanese episodes.

Possibly the same principle? Toei doesn’t want Funimation to release episodes with broadcast audio just in case they decide to.
The truth is that any talk of Funi "not being authorised" to use the BA is 100% speculation. There's simply no evidence behind it, and it really annoys me to see people continually talking about it as if it's an established fact... It's not.

In fact, if reverse-importing was an issue, Funi wouldn't have been allowed to do their bilingual releases of the first three Z movies in 1997/1998, or their bilingual releases of the series starting from 1999, or their HD versions of the movies, or the Levels, or the Season BDs... Particularly since the Season BDs cleaned up the Japanese audio to make it slightly less intolerably awful.

There is no reason to believe Toei would have denied Funimation permission to use the BA. In fact, we have no reason to believe they even tried to use them on a release. They were sent to Funi after the release of the Season BDs, and the next release was the 30th sets, which were a really cheap, quick cash-grab using the exact same audio tracks and base video master as the Season BDs.
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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by superrayman3 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:39 am

Cold Skin wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:48 pm ^ I'm not fully aware of what other countries currently have.
It's possible that our Blu-ray, fully dubbed release for Episode of Bardack and Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans is exclusive to France, but I can't confirm that other countries don't have them too.

But other than that, I can't think of any international exclusive we might have when it comes to the anime...

Shuesha sure gives us a lot (the manga, the series' Anime Comics, the movies' Anime comics, various guide books like Landmark and Forever, the quiz book, the Yamcha spin-off, Dragon Ball SD...). They even allow us to publish our own like the Dragon Ball cooking book.

But I'm not sure Toei gives us much more than what they give to other countries too, it must pretty much the same.
There were plans and discussions about us having the long version of Resurrection 'F' that includes Trunks' retelling of the previous events, but negotiations failed and it never came to pass in the end, so we don't have that many exclusivities as far as I know.
I've found a few more that further add credence to my statement.

France is the only country to ever get an instrumental of Unmei no Hi for their dub of DBZ something that as far as I'm aware no other country got, as well as the only official soundtrack release for TFC something even Japan doesn't have to the best of my knowledge so Toei definitely seems to have a very good relationship with France/AB Groupe if they can get some media their own home country can't. That's why I say if any company would be in a good position to do this and have the best chance of getting approval it'd be them assuming they actually are interested (I hope so), the only question then becomes would they take to take the time to splice parts where needed (to fix dropouts for example) or would they just to use it as is?
If anyone has any of the DB/DBZ/DBGT or Maho Tsuaki Sally Japanese single DVD's that they'd be interested in selling send me a PM and I'll see if we can work something out. ;).

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by SaiyanEpic » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:43 am

superrayman3 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:39 am
Cold Skin wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:48 pm ^ I'm not fully aware of what other countries currently have.
It's possible that our Blu-ray, fully dubbed release for Episode of Bardack and Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans is exclusive to France, but I can't confirm that other countries don't have them too.

But other than that, I can't think of any international exclusive we might have when it comes to the anime...

Shuesha sure gives us a lot (the manga, the series' Anime Comics, the movies' Anime comics, various guide books like Landmark and Forever, the quiz book, the Yamcha spin-off, Dragon Ball SD...). They even allow us to publish our own like the Dragon Ball cooking book.

But I'm not sure Toei gives us much more than what they give to other countries too, it must pretty much the same.
There were plans and discussions about us having the long version of Resurrection 'F' that includes Trunks' retelling of the previous events, but negotiations failed and it never came to pass in the end, so we don't have that many exclusivities as far as I know.
I've found a few more that further add credence to my statement.

France is the only country to ever get an instrumental of Unmei no Hi for their dub of DBZ something that as far as I'm aware no other country got, as well as the only official soundtrack release for TFC something even Japan doesn't have to the best of my knowledge so Toei definitely seems to have a very good relationship with France/AB Groupe if they can get some media their own home country can't. That's why I say if any company would be in a good position to do this and have the best chance of getting approval it'd be them assuming they actually are interested (I hope so), the only question then becomes would they take to take the time to splice parts where needed (to fix dropouts for example) or would they just to use it as is?
Correct, AB Groupe has some very good relationship with Toei, mainly because they sided with them back in the early 90's when the local gov tried to shut the show down from TVs, they were claiming that it was too violent for such a young audience

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:40 am

superrayman3 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:39 am That's why I say if any company would be in a good position to do this and have the best chance of getting approval it'd be them assuming they actually are interested (I hope so), the only question then becomes would they take to take the time to splice parts where needed (to fix dropouts for example) or would they just to use it as is?
Much as I'd like to be able to imply the opposite, based on all the releases thus far, I'm inclined to say that France does not go the extra mile to fix anything and pretty much uses the products they are given as is.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:48 am

KBABZ wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:12 am
Honestly for Funimation it's likely a case of where it came from to begin with. While Toei is the source of the broadcast audio, it was not officially provided to them by Toei. Funi is likely cautious of Toei getting upset with them over using something of theirs they weren't authorized to use.
This is almost definitely the reason and I don’t know why people are having such a hard time accepting that.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by sangofe » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:56 am

:wtf: u
Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:40 am
superrayman3 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:39 am That's why I say if any company would be in a good position to do this and have the best chance of getting approval it'd be them assuming they actually are interested (I hope so), the only question then becomes would they take to take the time to splice parts where needed (to fix dropouts for example) or would they just to use it as is?
Much as I'd like to be able to imply the opposite, based on all the releases thus far, I'm inclined to say that France does not go the extra mile to fix anything and pretty much uses the products they are given as is.

What about the movie releases? What about the remaster ab has done for "moero! Top striker! "? ( l'école des champions)

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Scsigs » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:25 am

Zestanor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:27 am But they are authorized to use it. They are authorized to use the Japanese audio for Dragon Ball. Where it came from does not need to be mentioned anywhere. In theory this whole saga of the broadcast audio could have been a fake story, and FUNi just leaked a really impressively restored version of their optical audio.

If FUNi just did it, and Toei made a stink, FUNi could just say “oh, didn’t it always sound this good?” Basically, Toei could never prove anything illicit had happened.

To Pepsi’s point, it’s true that the broadcast audio has a few flaws. And the NEPs sometimes have ads for the movies. But the Dragon Boxes have those versions of the NEPs as extras, and really we should consider those versions the real NEPs.
To say FUNi leaked the broadcast audio is making a BIG assumption & not really likely. The broadcast audios for DB, Z, & GT are all out there & there's NO way FUNi had them. And, to say that it's a restored version of the optical audio makes no sense. For one, the audio is too old & distorted. Even sourcing it from the 2003 Dragon Boxes wouldn't clean it up by much. I'm doubting even the best audio engineers in the world could to it. On top of that, why would FUNi have the audio restored to quality that matches the broadcast audio & not use it?

I mean, do you not get how these licensing deals work out? FUNi can only use materials given to them by Toei, or what they get authorization to make themselves, & they need to get that authorization, of which Toei can always tell them no. It's the same with a LOT of official licensers of anything. Why Toei doesn't wanna use the broadcast audio is anyone's guess & why they wouldn't let FUNi use it at least, since they clearly don't care about how their product is represented visually, is also anyone's guess. I doubt they'd be able to pull a fast one over Toei, though. They'd want an explanation. Everything needs to be ok'd by the original rights holders for them to use, otherwise they can't use the materials officially.

And, if the NEPs have those flaws, they can easily switch out the non-BA versions, I imagine, & try to clean them up to use. Star Trek TNG has some of the original 480i footage spliced in, color-corrected to match the footage around it, & it's pretty seamless, though audio like this is harder to manipulate than video, so who knows?
Robo4900 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:42 am
The truth is that any talk of Funi "not being authorised" to use the BA is 100% speculation. There's simply no evidence behind it, and it really annoys me to see people continually talking about it as if it's an established fact... It's not.

In fact, if reverse-importing was an issue, Funi wouldn't have been allowed to do their bilingual releases of the first three Z movies in 1997/1998, or their bilingual releases of the series starting from 1999, or their HD versions of the movies, or the Levels, or the Season BDs... Particularly since the Season BDs cleaned up the Japanese audio to make it slightly less intolerably awful.

There is no reason to believe Toei would have denied Funimation permission to use the BA. In fact, we have no reason to believe they even tried to use them on a release. They were sent to Funi after the release of the Season BDs, and the next release was the 30th sets, which were a really cheap, quick cash-grab using the exact same audio tracks and base video master as the Season BDs.
To an extent, you're right, but FUNi does need certain authorizations to do certain things with their releases that Toei need to ok, which includes using certain materials on their official releases. They either need to contract stuff, or need to have stuff sent from Toei to be used. They're allowed to work with what they give them, but Toei needs to authorize what they use, otherwise they can't use them. Toei needs to make sure their brand is consistently represented across the world. This is just how licensed stuff works.
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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:19 pm

sangofe wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:56 am
Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:40 am Much as I'd like to be able to imply the opposite, based on all the releases thus far, I'm inclined to say that France does not go the extra mile to fix anything and pretty much uses the products they are given as is.
What about the movie releases? What about the remaster ab has done for "moero! Top striker! "? ( l'école des champions)
I don't know about the Top Striker thing, but aren't the movies just straight up from some sort of Dragon Box masters equivalents from Japan? Maybe I'm wrong. They don't feel impressively remastered or corrected in any noticeable way when I watch them anyway, it's really some "cause we don't have anything better to offer" situation.
Last edited by Cold Skin on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by sangofe » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:19 pm
sangofe wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:56 am :wtf: u
Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:40 am Much as I'd like to be able to imply the opposite, based on all the releases thus far, I'm inclined to say that France does not go the extra mile to fix anything and pretty much uses the products they are given as is.
They're not. In fact they're an own remaster ab did. Movies 6-13 are considered the best movie releases of the series there is in 4:3.

What about the movie releases? What about the remaster ab has done for "moero! Top striker! "? ( l'école des champions)
I don't know about the Top Striker thing, but aren't the movies just straight up from some sort of Dragon Box masters equivalents from Japan? Maybe I'm wrong. They don't feel impressively remastered or corrected in any noticeable way when I watch them anyway, it's really some "cause we don't have anything better to offer" situation.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:04 pm

Scsigs wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:25 am To an extent, you're right, but FUNi does need certain authorizations to do certain things with their releases that Toei need to ok, which includes using certain materials on their official releases. They either need to contract stuff, or need to have stuff sent from Toei to be used. They're allowed to work with what they give them, but Toei needs to authorize what they use, otherwise they can't use them. Toei needs to make sure their brand is consistently represented across the world. This is just how licensed stuff works.
Sure.

But there's no way Toei would say no, as I've laid out repeatedly on this forum, including several times in this thread, through arguments that no one has been able to dispute in any way except vague allusions to a misunderstood concept of "but japanese honour!!!"... :P
Sorry if that sounds like I'm laying into you here, but it gets tiring to say the same stuff over and over again, particularly when there's no argument against it when you bring it up, but people still seem to not believe you, for some reason... It really gets my goat.

Anyway, the way I see it, the worst case scenario I can imagine is that Funi send the material off for approval, Toei's engineers realise this sounds better than what they have, and they temporarily prevent Funi from using it while they figure out if they can use it first... Except that's kinda a best case in a way, so perhaps the worst case is that Toei just say "sure whatever" and Funi become the only company using broadcast audio.

... But I don't think Funi have yet to even try using the audio, and given the only person who cared about it (Chris Sabat) has lost all enthusiasm for it, I really don't think they'll ever try.
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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by sangofe » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:31 am

Aragami wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:02 pm I have the 3 BOX and all the Las peliculas/The movies, I can tell you that compared to Funimation they did AN amazing job !!!
This is what the real old fan wanted from DBZ and Funimation can't understand and didn't deliver even with the 30 years edition.
I can't freaking beileve it and it doesn't even have an English dub... what a waste.. makes me want to cry.. :think: :thumbdown: :wtf:

I really hope they release the DBZ series the same way to obliterate Funimation.. I will simply take my selecta vizion BD and edit a audio version to fit them and remake my own BD for my own entertainment. :thumbup: :twisted:
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Are you saying SV movie release is different from fuji and Toei?

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by sangofe » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:05 am

sangofe wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 pm
Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:19 pm
sangofe wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:56 am :wtf: u

They're not. In fact they're an own remaster ab did. Movies 6-13 are considered the best movie releases of the series there is in 4:3.

What about the movie releases? What about the remaster ab has done for "moero! Top striker! "? ( l'école des champions)
I don't know about the Top Striker thing, but aren't the movies just straight up from some sort of Dragon Box masters equivalents from Japan? Maybe I'm wrong. They don't feel impressively remastered or corrected in any noticeable way when I watch them anyway, it's really some "cause we don't have anything better to offer" situation.
I'm not sure what happened here. Anyway, AB did what's considered a beautiful remaster of dbz movies 6-11 I believe it was. And it's considered the best release of those movies in 4:3.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:09 am

sangofe wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:05 am
sangofe wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 pm
Cold Skin wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:19 pm

I don't know about the Top Striker thing, but aren't the movies just straight up from some sort of Dragon Box masters equivalents from Japan? Maybe I'm wrong. They don't feel impressively remastered or corrected in any noticeable way when I watch them anyway, it's really some "cause we don't have anything better to offer" situation.
I'm not sure what happened here. Anyway, AB did what's considered a beautiful remaster of dbz movies 6-11 I believe it was. And it's considered the best release of those movies in 4:3.
AB remastered movies 7-11 (12 and 13 only have been restored where the old footage was censored, from what i know it's related to some "internal" members (like matoumalin well known on some french community) that managed to do passionate work on thoses movies, his team wasn't there for movie box 1 and have been stopped after the last "collector box" for db show


About AB I myself have contacted someone i know inside AB group about upcoming bluray release , he told me that he can't say anything. About Broadcast audios here is the discussion

Image

to recap :
- AB like any companies Can't use anything didn't approved straight by Toei so it kill all liars that pretend things like Funimation able to do something with audios and Toei didn't caring about
- AB won't use BA i show him how it sound, i explained that Toei throw away the cinetape audios (what he didn't trusted, he think that they have them but didn't used them) and he ignored once i asked them to ask Toei or giving a contact email

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by jelleline89 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:13 am

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:04 pm Sure.

But there's no way Toei would say no, as I've laid out repeatedly on this forum, including several times in this thread, through arguments that no one has been able to dispute in any way except vague allusions to a misunderstood concept of "but japanese honour!!!"... :P
Toei had no problem saying no when Sabat tried inserting a TFS cameo into Z Kai Final Chapters or when he brought on Mark de Groot to cover Super's first opening in English. Why would the BA be any different? It's a product Toei themselves haven't approved for official use or even had the opportunity to utilize themselves. Considering the stories I've heard of FUNi's strenuous efforts to get Toei's permission to use "Over 9000!" on official merchandise, I imagine these unofficial audio sources could cause for some red tape.

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Re: Possible details on Selecta Vision's Dragon Ball (1986-1989) bluray release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:38 pm

jelleline89 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:13 am
Robo4900 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:04 pm Sure.

But there's no way Toei would say no, as I've laid out repeatedly on this forum, including several times in this thread, through arguments that no one has been able to dispute in any way except vague allusions to a misunderstood concept of "but japanese honour!!!"... :P
Toei had no problem saying no when Sabat tried inserting a TFS cameo into Z Kai Final Chapters or when he brought on Mark de Groot to cover Super's first opening in English. Why would the BA be any different? It's a product Toei themselves haven't approved for official use or even had the opportunity to utilize themselves. Considering the stories I've heard of FUNi's strenuous efforts to get Toei's permission to use "Over 9000!" on official merchandise, I imagine these unofficial audio sources could cause for some red tape.
Well, that's a fair point.

IDK.

To be honest, the whole broadcast audio saga was so tiring, and so full of petty drama, badmouthing, etc. I'm just so tired of it, even now, months after it was kind of "Over". I guess I wanted to believe there was a silver lining that Sabat, if he had the motivation to get it done, could get it on a release.

I guess it was all just a pipe dream, in the end. And as of right now, I'm not sure I care anymore. Maybe it could get on an official release, maybe it couldn't. Sabat said he'd try his best, maybe even if he had, it wouldn't matter. He lost his enthusiasm anyway, and no one else seems to care, so...

The possibility of a future official release from AB, SV, Funi, or Toei having broadcast audio is zilch, I guess... To be honest, if I could, I'd forget the broadcast audio saga ever happened. Just a huge mess of personal drama with no real constructive results.

Sorry to be a downer.

Still, hopefuly AB's Blu-ray at least has decent video.

Either way, at the end of the day, it's just a dumb Japanese cartoon from the '80s/'90s. If it doesn't have optimal audio and video, that's no great loss, I guess. Let's just hope better home video is on the horizon, I guess.
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