How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

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How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 am

Based on the strength of these characters, how would you create a character strong enough to take on Goku and Vegeta while also not just coming out of nowhere. Obvious pick would be Demon Realm inhabitants.
Last edited by Kaiza_Toshiyuki on Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:26 am

For yet another Goku and Vegeta show? Nah. Firstly I would do something more interesting, a chance for the Gods of Destruction (and probably even Dai Kaioshins and angels) to fight.

An enemy sealed away from the Megaverse by Daishinkan. The very existence of the Universes would be their "jail" or "chains". Once something like Tournament of Power happens, the destruction of Universes would set them free. From the fighters' perspective, the fight would be taking in the same place, but in reality it would take place across the Multiverse, as this enemy is a multiversal singuarity (meaning, there's only him. They have no counterpart). It would probably even affect other dimensions. As this enemy doesn't actually come from Dragon Ball realm, he doesn't obey its rules, and so he isn't/can't be erased by Zeno (just setting the stakes really high). He'd be as tall as Unicron and Galactus. Though fighting would be important, something else will be vital for their defeat (here's where warriors from some Universes would come in).

Then (or before all this), I'd most certainly do something with the Demon Realm and time travel (including Mira, Towa and Fu obviously) stuff.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Vijay » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:38 am

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 am
Based on the strength of these characters, how would you create a character strong enough to take on Goku and Vegeta while also not just coming out of nowhere. Obvious pick would be Demon Realm inhabitants.
Good choice. I also liked considerin Dabura was so great. Tbh...I really felt at some point, Toriyama might have wrote Boo Arc alternatively. Post-Majin Vegeta's ressurection & Fat Boo's impeding revolt against Babidi, Babidi may have opened a portal using his magic & unleash entire Demon race/Majin race on Earth.

It would've gave Z-fighters (like piccolo, krillin etc) some relevance & provided tension & brutality needed to balance-out Fat Boo's comedic tone

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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by omegacwa » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:22 am

You could have a villain who is just so skilled that power level becomes irrelevant. This forces Goku, Vegeta, and co to "unlearn what they have learned" turn introspective and realize that ultimate strength isn't the goal, but ultimate knowledge and enlightenment. This would be an effective way to bring back the old characters in a meaningful way and not just fodder.

The problem is though, that ultra instinct exists, which pretty much ruins everything.

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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:34 am

You make a David Eagle. Strong warriors with morals and a delima that causes them to battle Gokuu and Vegeta. Tomioka Atsuhiro just needs to rework his ideas from the Tournament of Power.. Also, give these new enemies Ultra Instinct.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:17 pm

I actually don't know how to answer that question. After Infinite Zamasu (omnipresent villain), Jiren, and Broly, I don't know how they can come up with a stronger villain/antagonist. The power creep is insane at this point.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm

I kinda want them to make a villain like in Super Dragon Ball Heroes where he wants to kill the Zeno. Except, the actually succeed and Zeno's death causes an imbalance in the multiverse and all 12 universes merge together into one singular universe.

Because the only thing stopping Goku and Vegeta from meeting up with Jiren and Hit and the universe 6 inhabitants would be the fact that it seems you need an angel to take you there. So if they were all in one unified Megaverse that problem goes away and we can start exploring the new worlds.

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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:26 pm

I definitely hope that the Universe Conflict arc ends with Zamasu actually winning and becoming the new Zen-Ou. That'd be an interesting turn of events.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:38 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:26 pm
I definitely hope that the Universe Conflict arc ends with Zamasu actually winning and becoming the new Zen-Ou. That'd be an interesting turn of events.
Yeah, I think that Zamasu's plan is to use Hearts to dethrone Zeno, then backstab him and take the throne for himself. But then how do you beat him? Zamasu as the King of All sounds like game over for the multiverse to be honest. I'd love to see it though.

I must say, I'd love for Super to have an arc like that. With Zamasu back, him being part of a group that wants to dethrone Zeno, other universes being forced to join the fight, etc. Plus this internal drama between Zamasu and Hearts... The potential of this arc is so good that I'm kind of sad that it's wasted on a promotional anime. Also having multiple villains instead of just one makes the storyline more interesting because then you can also explore the drama that might rise between the villains and their conflicting interests.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:52 pm

You can bullshit anything to make someone as strong as Goku and Vegeta. That's what Super's been doing for the past four years, and the results have mostly sucked because that's all they were doing (and continue to do so; Moro is not interesting at all).
If you want to create an actually good new villain, strength isn't the key. It takes seconds of exposition to handwave why someone's stronger than Goku and Vegeta, and you're not going to make it more interesting by making that exposition more verbose.

In the interest of cutting to the chase, I've spoilered the rest of my preamble, as it's ultimately not necessary if you just want to hear what I'd like to see out of the next villain, and it's quite rambly...
One thing I'd like to see tried for a new Dragon Ball villain is taking over Goku's mind. With Goku on the opponents' side (and not in a stupid way like the Black arc), the goodguys would have to get pretty creative. And presumably, Vegeta would be the only one who can really do him in. Beerus and Whis would have some reason not to interfere; maybe the mind control is Zeno doing it for a laugh. But unlike in ResF, rather than just sit around and watch the arc unfold uselessly, Beerus and Whis would actually bugger off and do their own thing (like in Broly). If a character's not going to do anything, don't bother having them around. By a similar token, all the other cast members who have nothing to contribute this time around will have no presence in the arc; probably no Roshi or Yamcha. Maybe Gohan could show up and have a moment where he and Vegeta have to reconcile their rather odd relationship to work together against Goku.

This would also bring about a change in Dragon Ball's status quo for the first time since Battle Of Gods; with Zeno now considered a threat, and Beerus and Whis unable to do anything to combat this, it would be time to do something about their problems with the gods constantly fucking with them. Maybe even have a character get killed off in this arc to show how serious this is. Hell, maybe in the course of the arc, Broly shows up and Goku kills that old guy who hangs around with him and Cheelai. And when Zeno realises the Dragon Balls could reverse this, he nullifies the Earth and Namek balls.

Eventually, when Goku's set free, a plan is divised to have Vegeta, Goku, and maybe Broly work together to get one of them to become a new God Of Destruction, because of some cosmic nonsense rule that means if they unite all the other gods of destruction they can eliminate Zeno, and finally let the 12 universes live in peace, without the constant threat of Zeno throwing a tantrum and screwing stuff up.
With the 12 universes having worked together on this, cross-universe friendships are made that could maybe finally lead to the other universes actually being utilised in future arcs. Maybe a short storyline involving Bulma and Vegeta trying to go on holiday with Trunks, so they do some tour of one of the other universes, and we get a fun adventure arc, and Vegeta fans get to see him being the main character for a few episodes.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:51 pm

MasakoX tackled this Subject in an interesting way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9amM0fb ... yIngjTSMMz_

For me I would a strong build villain to portray things never see in a Dragon Ball, or things see but brushed away fastly. For example Babidi and Dabra were interesting but kick the bucket rapidly. So a baddies that have the charisma of Dabra with his power and the power of Babidi would be great let's give this bad guy also some abilities like summoning object or Hirudegarn like creatures through spells. Also this Bad guy will be half human and half demon, he would be well versed in martial art and in demon art. I think I will had too the fact that this villain eat the soul of his victim (like a certain Mortal Kombat baddies).

For his personnality he would be a stoic with Narcissistic side. Taking pride of his beauty but not showing much, meaning that if he got hurt he can go nuts and in his rampage go to kill an entire planet.

For his appearance imagine a villain combining the charm of Ainz Ooal Gown the ruthlessness of Shang Tsung and the Marvelousness of Mephisto but all of that with the Dragon Ball touch design.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:12 pm

I think more brute force is not what is needed in a villain. There needs to be an intelligent mastermind villain who, despite being weaker than most of the main cast, is able to outsmart them, evade them, and use psychological tactics to get the upper hand.

We got a little bit of that with Dr. Gero and the first two forms of Cell, but there should be an entire villain based on this concept.

Say, for example, he is a scientist from Universe 3 who has studied all of the fighting in the Tournament of Power, and built a machine that can not only copy the effect of the arena to prevent flying, but it can also prevent the use of ki attacks or barriers. Then he sends a bunch of robots that have the ability to paralyze anyone they touch, and can regenerate and combine if they are damaged. The Z senshi would need good strategy and planning to defeat them.
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Re: How would you write a stronger villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:58 am

Tbh after all DBS villains coming out of nowhere, especially Broly and Black Goku, i don't expect Super to make a good villains in future. The only exception here must be Moro as his origin is well explained and doesn't seem like a lazy fanservice trash.

DBH often makes better villains as it uses things like demon realm. Something similar to evil dragons could work as well as their power was a result of Goku's and others actions over years.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:12 pm
I think more brute force is not what is needed in a villain. There needs to be an intelligent mastermind villain who, despite being weaker than most of the main cast, is able to outsmart them, evade them, and use psychological tactics to get the upper hand.

We got a little bit of that with Dr. Gero and the first two forms of Cell, but there should be an entire villain based on this concept.
Sounds like entire first half of Baby saga. But yeah, it would be better idea to make a villain who is more dangerous than most of villains despite not being actually stronger than them. Even My Little Pony used this concept as Starlight basically caused destruction of entire planet by simply changing past. Too bad timelines in DB work different and each change simply creates new timeline so you can always return to your timeline unchanged. Otherwise Black Goku saga could actually be interesting and have any sense of danger.
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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:28 am

let me just fix that post title....

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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by omegacwa » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am

Another idea would be for a villain to de-power the heroes in some way that all that matters is skill. No transformations, no ki blasts, no nothing.

At the beginning I thought that was where the Moro arc was headed. Now I'm not sure.

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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:17 pm

This franchise has run through a distinct gallery of villains: an overlord wannabe (Pilaf), a proud warrior (Vegeta), a biological experiment (Cell), a martial arts master (Tao), a bunch of killer cyborgs, an evil creature (Buu), a god of destruction (Beerus), a jealous angel (Zamasu)... it's hard to tell what would be a better villain IMO.
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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Desassina » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:59 pm

I would make a villain that has been travelling from one universe Hell to another, training with the strongest villains sent there by the ToP participants, who seek to create their own champion for the world of the living. That villain is going to be Akkuman, who can teleport in and out of Hell, to inform his mates and to enjoy the time spent there. The difference between him and the other villains? He's not a tool for resurrection through the Dragon Balls. They accepted their fate, but were freed from their prison, so they don't have to reincarnate.

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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:32 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am
Another idea would be for a villain to de-power the heroes in some way that all that matters is skill. No transformations, no ki blasts, no nothing.

At the beginning I thought that was where the Moro arc was headed. Now I'm not sure.
Using ki is part of their skills. They’re not metahumans. The fictional world of Dragon Balls allows even normal humans like Kuririn and Roshi to use their martial art skills to tap into their ki.

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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:09 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:32 pm
omegacwa wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am
Another idea would be for a villain to de-power the heroes in some way that all that matters is skill. No transformations, no ki blasts, no nothing.

At the beginning I thought that was where the Moro arc was headed. Now I'm not sure.
Using ki is part of their skills. They’re not metahumans. The fictional world of Dragon Balls allows even normal humans like Kuririn and Roshi to use their martial art skills to tap into their ki.
But certain aspects of it can be disabled, like we saw in the ToP where ki-based flying wasn't allowed.
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Re: How would you write a better villain for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:12 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:09 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:32 pm
omegacwa wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am
Another idea would be for a villain to de-power the heroes in some way that all that matters is skill. No transformations, no ki blasts, no nothing.

At the beginning I thought that was where the Moro arc was headed. Now I'm not sure.
Using ki is part of their skills. They’re not metahumans. The fictional world of Dragon Balls allows even normal humans like Kuririn and Roshi to use their martial art skills to tap into their ki.
But certain aspects of it can be disabled, like we saw in the ToP where ki-based flying wasn't allowed.
Even besides that, there are tons of martial arts stories where fighters' access to their chi/ki/chakras/whatever is disabled by some means, be it physical, mental, or spiritual.

With ki in Dragon Ball being heavily dependent on the user's state of mind, there are tons of ways to make it less effective with some creative writing.
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