Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:54 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:50 pm I mean, in the Arabic dub of DBZ, all instances of saiyans turning into oozarus are censored because those in charge of the censoring decided that those scenes amounted to promoting Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which many in the Arabic world are opposed to on religious grounds. Instead, those scenes are edited (very poorly) to imply that, in the presence of a full moon, saiyans "summon" oozarus rather than transforming into them.
Wait, what, really? :lol: Somehow I'd never heard about that until now. Geez, I didn't think anything would beat out the nunchaku editing in the UK for the original run of TMNT material, but that...that one takes the cake.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:00 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:54 pm
TheBlackPaladin wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:50 pm I mean, in the Arabic dub of DBZ, all instances of saiyans turning into oozarus are censored because those in charge of the censoring decided that those scenes amounted to promoting Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which many in the Arabic world are opposed to on religious grounds. Instead, those scenes are edited (very poorly) to imply that, in the presence of a full moon, saiyans "summon" oozarus rather than transforming into them.
Wait, what, really? :lol: Somehow I'd never heard about that until now. Geez, I didn't think anything would beat out the nunchaku editing in the UK for the original run of TMNT material, but that...that one takes the cake.
Yeah, I'm having trouble finding it now, but somebody posted clips on YouTube a while back. Like I said, the editing was very poor, it's not like they did anything to digitally alter the animation or anything. They just...

1) Changed the character's dialogue to say that oozarus are summoned in the presence of a full moon.
2) Used either a still frame or the last few seconds of animation before the saiyans in question started showing signs of transformation.
3) Kept cutting back and forth between the animation of the oozarus doing stuff and the still frame they had picked out.

The music would be uninterrupted and they would have the character groan/make some sort of sound to imply they were controlling the oozaru, but if you knew how it originally looked, the editing looks unbelievably sloppy...quite frankly, even if you didn't know how it originally looked, it still looks sloppy.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:54 pm

Hey! I'll have you know that Mexico has the closest dub to the Japanese while also being accesible to children!
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by Tian » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:14 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:50 pm It would also set a weird precedent going forward about what they would and wouldn't have to edit. I mean, in the Arabic dub of DBZ, all instances of saiyans turning into oozarus are censored because those in charge of the censoring decided that those scenes amounted to promoting Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which many in the Arabic world are opposed to on religious grounds.
It also happens in the Digimon Dub where the main Digimon call "their brothers and sisters" to fight for them.

They also cut most of Lilymon and Angewomon's Digi-evolution sequence (or as the Arab League sees it, "Relative Summon")

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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:22 pm

I don't like editing the past because we learn from our mistakes in history and not editing it. History is doom to repeat itself if we don't learn from it. WB Bros put a warning on their old cartoons on how they are made from a certain time period and even Grindhouse Releasing did a similar thing with their release of Cannibal Holocaust. Having a warning in front of something is better than removing it from history.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by KBABZ » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:33 pm

I think it was established well earlier in the thread: TV broadcast releases I'm fine with altering because that's the network's prerogative, while the home releases shouldn't be because that's OUR prerogative. That being said I wouldn't mind, say, alternate versions of specific episodes that make the show easier to watch with its intended target audience today, which sit alongside the uncut versions. If I want to watch the show I love so dearly with my (as yet unconvinced) kid, I don't think I should have to skip along certain parts that are inappropriate.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by omegacwa » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:54 am

Censoring things from the past is an atrocious idea. You can't learn from mistakes if you ignore/erase that they even happened.

Should Dragon Ball be edited to appease every possible group that might be offended by X, Y or Z?

Absolutely not. Once you go down that route you might as well just erase the whole show.

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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by Kokonoe » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:42 pm

I will note "culture" is not an excuse or cover for things happening. Just clarifying cause I've seen some on the net use culture as a form of defense to certain actions or words.

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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by TheBigBoy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:34 am

Threads like this really make me pine for the days when Dragon Ball "discourse" was flame wars about power levels.

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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:38 am

TheBigBoy wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:34 am Threads like this really make me pine for the days when Dragon Ball "discourse" was flame wars about power levels.
As I already mentioned to someone else regarding a similar thing:

Don't post in the thread if you're not even remotely interested, then. You're not actually under any obligation to tell people you don't care about what they're talking about. It's OK to NOT post and just keep walking.

(I'll take a wider breadth of topics any day. You should, too.)
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:54 am

I always find it sad when there is such little regard for the gender, sex, and race minorities in the fandom. Too much of an unrealistic and toxic narrative has been tied into fandom that real-world issues are unrelated to fandom and media, which is simply untrure. The disregard that breeds in others is really anxiety-inducing for a lot of us.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by TheBigBoy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:56 am

VegettoEX wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:38 am
TheBigBoy wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:34 am Threads like this really make me pine for the days when Dragon Ball "discourse" was flame wars about power levels.
As I already mentioned to someone else regarding a similar thing:

Don't post in the thread if you're not even remotely interested, then. You're not actually under any obligation to tell people you don't care about what they're talking about. It's OK to NOT post and just keep walking.

(I'll take a wider breadth of topics any day. You should, too.)
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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:13 am

I wouldnt talk back to the mod if I were you.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:20 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:13 am I wouldnt talk back to the mod if I were you.
We welcome genuine conversation, challenges to what may be thought of as accepted wisdom, inquiries on sources, etc. Never feel sheepish about talking to any of the three owners or the various forum mods about any of that.

But this? Yeah, that's just a kid being a kid, totally uninterested in any of that. Prior shitty posts, prior shitty attitude, doesn't seem interested in being a real community member. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by ChibiGoku » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:46 am

So, I wanna talk a little bit about this, since I'm aware how Japan has been handling this stuff for re-airings, and really, it's fairly a simple thing.

Essentially the basic gist of the situation is this: Japan does not edit or censor any legacy material that is simply a "re-airing". This includes things that are no longer considered okay to broadcast (certain gestures, nudity (though I do need to note this is a network to network thing, and some don't have an issue with this, while some do), racial and homophobic content, etc.). What they do instead, is prior to the broadcast of these shows, they air with warnings. These warnings are worded differently, depending on the network, and each network may have different things that they may see an issue, while others don't.

Kids Station, for example, doesn't have an issue with nudity and stuff, and often shows that have full nudity, won't result in these warnings. However, racist content, certain inappropriate gestures, and some other things, will warrant these warnings. TV Asahi seems a bit stricter about this, and nudity is also included with these warnings (even Crayon Shin-chan episodes that aired 5-6 years ago, often carry these warnings for re-broadcasts).

Rockman.EXE, for example, for the re-airings on Kids Station, carry these warnings, due to imagery and certain terminology being considered racist and problematic. And this is a show that aired back in around 2002 or so, for the record.

Warning messages that the two above broadcasters often carry for their re-airings:

Image
Image

There's definitely more, but I've only had access to these recordings that carried these messages. I believe TV Asahi used to have a slightly different message at one point, but I'd have to dig it up since it has been awhile.

DVD and Blu-ray's often come with similar warnings as well.

Honestly, as a openly gay man, I get that a lot of these things used to be acceptable to show on Japanese TV, even if in hindsight, many of these could be considered harmful for LGBT groups. I'm not gonna judge Japan for what they did in the past regarding this. Really matters how modern media as a whole handles it. Plus, sometimes a lot of this was simply due to ignorance and sometimes not an ill intended act to demean people, but there obviously are examples in media that show otherwise.

And yeah, it's important that these things aren't edited or censored, especially for video releases, because these are, ultimately, products of when they were once released during the time frame. It can be an opportunity to look back in the past and reflect issues that were presented in these media.

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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by coola » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:50 am

I perosnally think such censorship of already existing products because it mind offend some loud minority is just wrong, this is why i dont buy some re releases of games/anime, because they are sometimes censored, how did we get to such times when loud minority dictate to majority what to do? Its like complete anticapitalism...and how is it different from Stalin or Kim family alter pictures or history to fit their purposes?
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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:56 am

ChibiGoku wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:46 amRockman.EXE, for example, for the re-airings on Kids Station, carry these warnings, due to imagery and certain terminology being considered racist and problematic. And this is a show that aired back in around 2002 or so, for the record.
Now you've got me curious about this.
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Re: Future DB(Z) releases should be edited for it's painfully outdated LBTG+ content

Post by omegacwa » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:01 am

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:54 am I always find it sad when there is such little regard for the gender, sex, and race minorities in the fandom. Too much of an unrealistic and toxic narrative has been tied into fandom that real-world issues are unrelated to fandom and media, which is simply untrure. The disregard that breeds in others is really anxiety-inducing for a lot of us.
I feel like the over-labeling of people is exactly what is causing such a thing. People are made up of a million different factors and sex/gender/race is a such a minuscule portion of that pie.

I feel bad for people that believe that all they are is their race/sex/gender and blame all of their problems on one or all of those things. Humans are diverse and all unique in their own way and our diversity should be celebrated. Being reduced to just "white male" or "black female" or whatever is akin to bigotry. Being judged solely on a factor that is impossible to choose is bigotry.

I judge people by their actions and the quality of their character not their appearance.

What aggravates me in the media is being told that because you are X, Y or Z you must be this. You must think or act a certain way. Which is totally fucked up and is basically brainwashing.

I'm a "Straight White Male" but that doesn't define me. I'm a moderate. I grew up in diverse area and have had friends of pretty much every race. My best friend is Chinese. Some of my closest friends in high school were Hispanic, Pakistani, and Iranian. A great friend of mine for years is Black. My best friend at my old job for years was a Hispanic female and we still keep in touch today. I had a long lasting romantic relationship with a girl from Costa Rica who was pansexual. Another long time ex was 1/4 Cherokee. I was raised Catholic but am now agnostic. I have had friends from pretty much every major religion. Over the course of my life I have had far more influential women in my life than men. Some of my favorite fictional characters have been women. From Ellen Ripley to Samus Aran to Sarah Connor. Nowadays, as a wrestling fan, I'm happy to see so many great female wrestlers getting their chance to shine. I was at NXT Takeover Brooklyn where Sasha and Bayley tore the house down. It was an amazing experience.

Anyway, my point is being reduced to just "straight white male" makes me sound like a maga hat wearing gun toting bigot in today's society which is not true. I don't own a gun nor do I like them and I'm certainly not a bigot. I won't get into politics but I'm typically not a fan of extremists on either side.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, being reduced to just your physical characteristics and or sexual preference is doing a huge disservice to that person and society as a whole, and constantly bringing it up and telling people you must do this that or the other because of characteristic X,Y, or Z is harmful to society and to young minds everywhere.

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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by ChibiGoku » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:10 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:56 am
ChibiGoku wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:46 amRockman.EXE, for example, for the re-airings on Kids Station, carry these warnings, due to imagery and certain terminology being considered racist and problematic. And this is a show that aired back in around 2002 or so, for the record.
Now you've got me curious about this.
Basically, one character in particular that's re-occurring, is often played up as a walking stereotype based off his culture and roots. I forget his name, but he's Indian/Middle Eastern descent, and his antics are played up for laughs.

One of the PET Navi's is named "Coloredman", which is... Yeaaah. I need to note his name was changed originally in the game's localization, so this was already caught for the English game translation. I get what Japan was going for, given he's a clown and has various different colors surrounding his body, but the naming choice is very unfortunately.

There's also more than just this, but this is the two examples that come up to mind to immediately.

A similar issue happened with Oilman in Rockman Rockman (Mega Man Powered Up) on PSP, which was a modern remake with new features/enemies of one of the original games. Normally this stuff would nowadays be caught in the production process (Given Rockman/Mega Man is made in mind with International audiences), but somehow this managed to skirt by for the Japanese release. Originally Oilman was featured a more blackish skin-tone, with big red/pink lips. International releases, they changed his color to a more blueish hue (sound familiar?) with orange/yellow lips instead.

ImageImage

This was probably more accidental than anything, but kinda shows that Japan often doesn't think about these things when they are producing stuff. I'll note the American Comics decided to just mask the lips with the scarf, to avoid showing them all together.

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Re: Editing of painfully-outdated LGBT+ content in future DB(Z) releases?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:21 am

Well the blackface stereotype doesn't exist in Japan, so when they accidentally draw something similar to it, there's often no one there with the proper cultural background to say 'hold on a minute..."
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