Is the manga a little /too/ fast-paced?

[Tamagon]

I've been reading the DB manga over the past month or so, and I just finished the Cell Saga. I dig the manga, but sometimes it feels...strangely empty. And I think it's because its almost non-stop action and comedy. It's very rare that the manga just lets things sink in. Almost every panel is dedicated to moving the story onto the next fight or joke.

It really struck me during the Cell Saga, where Gohan is hesitant to use his full power because he dislikes fighting and killing, and my first impression was "wait, huh?". In the manga, Gohan never really showed an aversion to the idea of fighting once he started training with Piccolo. He seemed perfectly willing to venture off to Namek or train with Goku. And then I thought harder and realized we never really got the chance to *know* Gohan. Almost every time we see him its when he's in the thick of combat. Compare this to the anime which had entire (filler) episodes seeing Gohan mature, adapting to his new life as a warrior.

Another example would be Trunks' backstory. You remember how in the anime version, Future Gohan gave the androids the fight of their lives and his death inspired Trunks to go SSJ for the first time ever? In the manga, Future Gohan is very quickly and unceremoniously killed; it's almost like a joke. We don't even see Trunks getting SSJ for the first time because he was already one!

I know DBZ didn't get popular for having deep characterization, but I remember the characters having a bit more weight and meat to their writing in the Toei anime. Granted, the anime def has its own issues too when it comes to writing (hello, plot holes!)

[KBABZ]

I feel this as well. Using my tried-and-true example, I do have to exercise restraint when editing The First Chapters because if I edit out every line and shot that wasn't from the manga (as well as obvious pad-for-time pauses) the episodes would be over in 10 minutes!

[Soppa Saia People]

yeah i can totally see that. there are certain parts in the manga, mainly relating to to characters/world developments that just feel glossed over in the manga. which i get it, toriyama isn't that type of writer, and the surface level appeal of dragon ball is the fighting, but still, it can make it feel empty, especially because i really think toriyama created a super fun world that he just didn't take advantage of.

[MozillaVulpix]

I don't really feel that. I think context is important. As in, Dragon Ball is a serialised manga. You'd only read a chapter every week (or a few chapters a month if you picked it up by Tankobon) before you had to wait to see what'd happen next. I feel your imagination would probably be filling in the gaps regardless. It's like the act of reading a serialisation is that time for the characters to stop and have a break.

[Shaddy]

too fast? christ.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Um... there is such a thing. I dont know why you act like its a moronic opinion to have.

[jjgp1112]

Not all the time, but definitely in the Buu saga. Even beyond the frequently cited Goku/Majin Vegeta fight, there's just so much stuff that helped flesh things out for the Buu saga that's just completely absent from the manga.

[Kunzait_83]

Gonna second jjgp above me: this is really only an issue in the Boo arc of the manga. The manga from its very first chapter all the way up through most of the Cell arc is paced more or less PERFECTLY a lot of the time. The manga's Boo arc though is WAY too rushed and way too abbreviated for various stretches, especially compared to the Z anime where its given MUCH more room to breath and to develop its story ideas and fights/setpieces properly. Its the only part of the manga that I would argue has any real pacing issues to speak of, and certainly the Z anime is an overall vast improvement on it.

[KBABZ]

Gonna second jjgp above me: this is really only an issue in the Boo arc of the manga. The manga from its very first chapter all the way up through most of the Cell arc is paced more or less PERFECTLY a lot of the time. The manga's Boo arc though is WAY too rushed and way too abbreviated for various stretches, especially compared to the Z anime where its given MUCH more room to breath and to develop its story ideas and fights/setpieces properly. Its the only part of the manga that I would argue has any real pacing issues to speak of, and certainly the Z anime is an overall vast improvement on it.

Every single other issue with it aside, how does The Final Chapters handle the Buu saga by comparison?

[ABED]

There are moments here and there that feel too fast paced, but there are plenty of moments where the anime feels like a slog. For every addition that helps flesh out the character, story, or action, there are multiple times the number of instances where it does little but add to the runtime. Kai was a nice attempt to find a middle ground.

[Kunzait_83]

Every single other issue with it aside, how does The Final Chapters handle the Buu saga by comparison?

I haven't really watched the Kai version of the Boo arc, so I can't speak to it. My Kai experience is more with the Saiya-jin through Cell portion, and as far as those arcs go, I think by and large they more fall into the same faults as the manga's Boo arc: where they sometimes feel TOO rushed in certain areas.

However unlike the manga's Boo arc (which I think is mostly just a product of Toriyama burning himself out on DB by that point), with Kai its mostly because its editing choices were VERY slapdash, had almost NO basis whatsoever in "what was important manga-material and what was anime fluff", and completely disregarded the original directorial intent of countless scenes in the original Z anime.

I don't know how well the Boo episodes handled that aspect of things: I know that the production methods/people involved shifted around a whole bunch for Kai's Boo arc. I haven't seen it myself yet, other than bits and spurts, but most of what I've heard from others hasn't been too good all things considered.

[KBABZ]

I don't know how well the Boo episodes handled that aspect of things: I know that the production methods/people involved shifted around a whole bunch for Kai's Boo arc. I haven't seen it myself yet, other than bits and spurts, but most of what I've heard from others hasn't been too good all things considered.

I personally felt that Buu Kai was a slow in places even with a lot of the removed material. I felt there was a little too much time spent in the Great Saiyaman arc regarding the amount of anime-only stuff it kept, and it felt there were one or two too many episodes in the Super Buu and Kid Buu sections.

So considering you felt that Kai was too fast, maybe it'll be to your liking!

[ABED]

Kai 1.0 was definitely a genuine attempt to bring the original anime closer in line with the manga. I don't know what the economics of producing and distributing anime are, but it seems like 2.0 keeping in more material was the result of Kai being a bigger hit overseas than in Japan.

[KBABZ]

Kai 1.0 was definitely a genuine attempt to bring the original anime closer in line with the manga. I don't know what the economics of producing and distributing anime are, but it seems like 2.0 keeping in more material was the result of Kai being a bigger hit overseas than in Japan.

Agreed. While this was an effect on Kai 1.0, you can really feel the need to hit a specific episode count when watching 2.0. As someone who's unfamiliar with Z, I didn't feel anything "off" about the actual editing and pacing of Kai 1.0; my critiques are laid on the actual presentation of newly-drawn material.

[MajinMan]

Kai 2.0 isn’t really worth watching over original Z. Not only do I think the music and colors are just way off, the pacing at times is exactly the same as Z. If you’re a dub only fan, I guess it could be worth your time. If not, then I’d say don’t bother at all.

[TheGreatness25]

For me personally, I understand what you mean. I breeze through the manga, but that's on me. I read very quickly and find myself just kind of quickly glance at the panels with no dialog for a split second. If you use your imagination and read it more of how it would sound rather than speed reading, it might help. I also never really stop to analyze the art of a fighting scene. I've tried it, but I have to constantly remind myself to do that.

That's actually what I like about the manga: I can take my time with it, or I can breeze through it in a very short amount of time.

[Tamagon]

too fast? christ.

There's definitely such a thing as too fast. Ever listened to nightcore??

[Xeogran]

I get you Tamagon. What comes to my mind however, is the Super Trunks vs Cell fight. It's Trunks time to finally show what he learned in the RoSaT, he transforms into a form stronger than that of Vegeta's. And yet? In the manga, he never deals a SINGLE blow against Perfect Cell.

Like I understand they needed to hype Cell up, but he has regeneration. Trunks could damage him at least (as he did in the anime version). Meanwhile in the manga that form achieved nothing.

[Lord Beerus]

Gonna side with jjgp1112 assessment in that only the Majin Boo arc felt too short, which is ironic considering it's the longest arc in the entire original series. The arc goes on for so long and it still feels majorly undercooked.

[Yuli Ban]

Growing up with the anime, I thought the manga was far too fast paced and I still distinctly remember my disappointment at just how much was "cut out" (or, as I understood just a year afterwards, how much filler the anime added). People often say that DBZ is "all action and no story or adventure," which is blatantly false if you watch the anime.

But the manga, definitely, tends to go from action scene to action scene because it knows what people are here for.

I'd definitely argue that a lot of filler gave Dragon Ball added flavor it didn't originally have. It's just natural when you're dealing with a weekly serial that you're not going to get the best possible story; even Toriyama has mentioned there were things he'd loved to have done in the original run, and I simply don't doubt they weren't in there because he only had a week to turn things around and he really was a lazy man who put off writing things.

Like me!

I actually remember trying to write a weekly serial way back in 2008 before I had even achieved sapience, and I was doing it from scratch for a Sonic the Hedgehog fanfiction. Damn, was that thing rushed. Each chapter ranged from 1,000 words to 4,000 words, and every 4 chapters made an "episode", and I made myself put out an episode every Friday to make it feel like a TV show, so that was about 8,000 to 10,000 words a week. I remember that story failing after about 40 chapters/10 episodes, and I'd go back to it and keep adding details to it for the next 4 years, and the very last version of it was much closer to what my 14-year-old self had in mind when he first came up with the original concept and run. I still have the versions of the story ranging from the chapters written in 2008 all the way to 2012, and besides me growing as a writer a bit more, if you were to read them you'd definitely tell that the ones that were written week-by-week were downright beige compared to the ones that sat for a few years (even if they weren't actively worked on for 99% of that time) in terms of description, detail, and plot. That also means, however, that the amount of fluff in those chapters increased.

When you make a serial, you simply have to make concessions, and making things feel tight and reducing the amount of BS so you can tell a maximum amount of story in a minimum amount of time without feeling rushed is a quality skill.

Funnily enough, vol. 36 of the manga feels like it was Toriyama trying to make a slice of life epilogue for Dragon Ball, or maybe a spin-off. Too many things were complete for it to feel any other way. And that's one reason why I always felt the Boo arc felt schizophrenic. It's essentially a brand new chapter in Dragon Ball lore, and it had to set everything but even though it was longer than just about any other arc in the series, it didn't give itself the time.
It's a lot like the Tournament of Power arc in that regard. ToP's whole arc was half the length of the entire Super anime, starting with a lot of slice of life and two-parters and having an inconsequential tournament in the middle of it (except the Budokai Tenkaichi in the Boo arc did make several points, like establishing Goten and Trunks, Krillin and 18's relationship, etc) before finally getting to the real meat of the story (which in Super's case was another tournament).