What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

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What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Sin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Just a couple of months ago, my older brother passed away unexpectedly. Growing up in the late 90s/early 00s some of my earliest and favourite memories with him were of him introducing me to Dragon Ball Z, buying the figures, playing Final Bout and trying to figure out who all the characters were back when the Freeza Saga was airing over here in the UK, and that feeling of rushing home to watch and record the show every day after school. I have found through grief I have really clung to the parts of the franchise I find most nostalgic, for me this is the early english dub (Ocean dub), even with all of its flaws I appreciate it as part of my own history and respect it as my gateway to the franchise as a whole.

I realise a lot of fans here are from different time periods of exposure to DB, some back in the 80s, some in the late 00s, I am just interested to hear about the things that make you feel nostalgic. It might be something which you can look past the flaws in, because it has a sentimental meaning to you beyond its substance. Or it might be an episode/figure/game which resonates with a certain period in your life when things seemed a little more gentle.

Please, I would love to hear some of your nostalgic attachments to DB.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 pm

First off, I send you my condolences for your brother. :( Might not mean much coming from a random guy on the internet, but I know how hard it is to lose someone you love.

To answer your question, there are a good couple of points in the franchise that I usually feel pretty nostalgic when I watch them, for different reasons. For the original manga, whenever I read volume 16, I get that feeling since that was the very first volume of manga (and not just of DB, but manga period) that I ever read. I get similar feelings for volumes 1 and 17 of 'Z', as they were other volumes that I had for years before getting the rest of the series.

For the anime, I get nostalgic sometimes watching Goku's fight with Freeza, as that was where I first got into the series. I had a lot of fun as a kid watching that fight again and again via tapes where I'd taped it off of Toonami. That nostalgic feeling continues right into the early Trunks material as well, as that was what finally hooked me ('holy crap, some punk kid kills Frieza and now there's Androids coming that even he can't beat?! I gotta watch this!'). The very end of the Great Saiyaman arc and the Bardock special both feel nostalgic for me at times too, as those were the very first official VHS tapes I had. Similarly, I often feel that way in regards to the last three-or-four episodes of Z and Z movie 7, as those were among the first parts of the series I ever watched subbed.

When it comes to video games, I haven't played any of the old ones in a long while, but any time I think back on Legacy of Goku, I get a similar feeling. I can well remember playing the hell out of it, awful as it was in comparison to it's own sequels. The entire series though were games I played the hell out of constantly throughout my school years.
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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:07 pm

the first opening animation for the original dragon ball always gets me, the opening shot always makes me feel comfy, as does makafushigi adventure as a whole but more so the animation. actually now that i think about, all the openings and endings for the original anime series's, i love them all, and a lot of the we gotta power remixes were some of the first kikuchi tracks i heard.

the covers for volume 19 and 20 of the manga, along with just that part of the story is always a super nice bit of nostalgia, first manga volumes i owned. likewise i have huge nostalgia for the anime version of the first arc as that was the first bit of the series i saw in full, and i love those episodes dearly. i'm actually currently watching them with my boyfriend and it's been so fun, lol.

probably the biggest is the SSJ2 transformation in the anime, it's my favorite scene in the franchise and was the first bit of it i saw in japanese, and it more or less sold me on the series, and the japanese cast of course. i just thought it was the most amazing thing ever when i stumbled on it, lmao.
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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:14 pm

I don't really have any nostalgia for the manga directly, as it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I bought and read through it for The First Chapters. For me it's effectively a better-drawn take of the anime, especially the Full Colors.

As for the anime, the answer is easy: THE ENTIRE KID GOKU STORY. I had known about DBZ, but it didn't catch me interest. Somehow I managed to catch the original Dragon Ball when it aired during Friday Nights on Cartoon Network as a double feature with Cardcaptors, and I was hooked. I have fond memories of watching the show with my sister while we both ate pizza. Particular episodes I recall from that time include meeting Roshi, fighting Giran, a filler episode where Goku had his clothes stolen by a homeless kid, and Muscle Tower. In fact Muscle Tower took so long to get through that me and my sis took a break from the show for a bit, and when we got back Goku and co. were in the Pirate Cave (which has its own pacing problems!).

The Red Ribbon Army arc for me is by far the most nostalgic, because it encapsulates everything that drew me into the show: Kid Goku, going on a world tour, meeting new friends, and having a fun adventure where you don't know what could be around the bend and where you'll go next. And while I didn't discover these songs until much later, I love the insert songs for this arc as well, such as Defeat the Red Ribbon Army, The Son Goku Song, and of course The Blue Travelers.

Oh, and SSP reminded me that the intro and ESPECIALLY the credits song hit me too. The bit at the end with Bulma in the capsule house as the song winds down to a close as the show ends puts me in a "man I could just go to bed with a smile right now" feeling. Kikuchi overall from this series fits too, with the useage of the intro being especially notable, alongside the two or three "travel" themes that opened most episodes, and of course the Flying Nimbus theme.
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:07 pm
the first opening animation for the original dragon ball always gets me, the opening shot always makes me feel comfy, as does makafushigi adventure as a whole but more so the animation.
I agree. It feels kinda sacrilegious to say, but I think the first OP/ED were the best for the classic show as far as actual animation goes. I felt the later ones for DB in Japan as well as the Z ones feel kinda rushed from that standpoint.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:32 am

Oh, where do I begin.

Watching Dragon Ball as a kid was just so much fun. It got me through difficult times when I was being bullied, inspired me to always aspire and never give up.

Some aspects that evoke nostalgia for me are:
- watching Goku vs Freeza in 1999 when I lived in Arizona before it ever aired in my country thinking this was like no cartoon I'd ever seen before. Still love this fight because it got me hooked and it was a blast from the past seeing their rematch in Resurrection F
- seeing the first promos when I was home in early 2000 for Dragon Ball Z premiering in Ireland and being excited to come home from school to watch the Saiyan saga
- the dub "Superman" Goku. This character Funimation created replaced Ash Ketchum as the fictional character I aspired to be. I fondly remember the "hope of the universe" speech, him being like a spiritual guide to Gohan in the Cell games. Although I acknowledge that Goku is not true to Toriyama's vision it was fun looking up to him as a hero when I didn't know any better
- getting the Big Green dub of movie 2 as a present from my mam. I watched that DVD so much, it's now a bit scratched up and despite the quality of the dub I kept it as it was the beginning of my Dragon Ball DVD and Blu-Ray collection, which has grown exponentially since then, and it's a funny footnote of the history of this franchise in the UK
- the Keenlyside and Mitchell score from the Westwood dub. Still my favourite replacement score used on this show, and especially the army theme, which made every fight scene memorable and engaging. Not going to lie but I will be pretty hyped to hear these guys again in Ocean Kai if that works soon
- the Kid Boo fight in Tramore, which is a little holiday village in the south of Ireland. Probably my favourite fight in the series, just loved seeing Goku and Vegeta put their differences aside and working together. Ironically enough I watched this with my cousin who has been kind of my rival in real life, but it was a great time to just get away from school for the summer and just binge through my VHS recordings
- more recently all the theatrical experiences. Seeing Battle of God's at Nomcon in 2014, we didn't get a screening in Dublin but Sabat kindly brought a copy of the movie to the con and thanks to him I got to experience Dragon Ball Z with a live audience for the first time, then Resurrection F and Super Broly, which got shown in theatres over here, the latter I got to see twice, including one time with my girlfriend, now fiance

There's just so much. Glad to hear everyone else's find memories here too.
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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:28 am

All of it, but the Saiyan and Frieza sagas especially. Back in 2000 Cartoon Network UK would always get as far as Trunks warning Goku about the Androids, and then go back to Raditz. It was like this for what seemed like an eternity when I was a kid.

I loved the Saban dub with its dark score which fitted the battle with the saiyans perfectly, and the Ocean voices where fantastic for those 2 seasons. And I loved the inhouse dub right off the bat too, as I grew to idolise Sean Schemmel's heroic portrayal of Goku, and instantly fell in love with the Faulconer Productions score. I remember Cartoon Network regularly showing several episodes a day after school, and also having tons of marathons during weekends and school holidays.

I honestly lost track of how many times I watched the Goku vs Frieza fight, but I would never get tired of it. I always used to look forward to the Spirit Bomb episodes, which had me on the edge of my seat at the time, and would get even more excited when Goku turned Super Saiyan right after. I also thought it was really cool how Goku and Frieza sustained lots of battle damage over time, with Goku's gi getting more torn over time for instance.

Watching that fight as a kid had a lasting effect on me, as the incredible courage Goku displayed while taking a beating served as a great metaphor for life. I still think of it to this day when things get tough.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Vijay » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:40 am

SSJ transformation tbh. Goku vs Frieza to be specific

It was solid 6-7 years gap that I almost completly forgot abt DragonBall. As such...1 look @ SSJ Goku charging towards Frieza was....such nostalgia

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Xeogran » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:30 am

Most of all: GT Opening/Ending 1, the songs are just so wholesome and so is the animation accompanying them.
DB when Kid Goku defeats the Red Ribbon Army while the Insert Song "Moeru Heart De" is playing.
Z when Goku meets Goten for the first time.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by omegacwa » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:07 pm
the first opening animation for the original dragon ball always gets me, the opening shot always makes me feel comfy, as does makafushigi adventure
100% agreed.

Also watching anything from the Ocean Dub, or old crappy fansubs. My first exposure to the series was a fan sub a friend lent me. It might have been movie 13. At this point it's hard to remember.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:24 am

Xeogran wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:30 am
DB when Kid Goku defeats the Red Ribbon Army while the Insert Song "Moeru Heart De" is playing.
Wait, that had an insert song?!

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Xeogran » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:27 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:24 am
Xeogran wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:30 am
DB when Kid Goku defeats the Red Ribbon Army while the Insert Song "Moeru Heart De" is playing.
Wait, that had an insert song?!
Yeah, and a pretty cool one. Check out Episode 65 at the end.
I guess I should have worded it better, but it's a bit before Goku starts his invasion.
Last edited by Xeogran on Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 am

Somehow I wasn't even thinking of the music when I made my answer, gah. That's possibly because I have less answers for that one. Sure, I've listened to a ton of DB music, even counting the original Japanese score back when I was purely a dub following fan. Most of it though, no matter how good it is, kind of just plays for me. I hear it and I just enjoy it, it doesn't really evoke any sort of nostalgia for me for any reason.

That said though, there are at least three tracks I can think of immediately that actually do.

1) Super Saiyan Vegeta's Theme (Falcouner Score) - I haven't watched the show with the Falcouner score in years, but every time, every time I watch DBZ, whether that's dubbed with Kikuchi or just the Japanese version itself, I literally have to switch the tracks to this one whenever Vegeta transforms for the first time. I don't even like Vegeta in this arc, but there is just something great about this track that always transports me back to the first time I was watching this series. It's magic, every time.
2) Super Saiyan 3 Theme (Falcouner Score) - I don't have quite the same burning desire to switch tracks when this one plays, but I still almost always start hearing this in the back of my head during a couple of key scenes that it plays in, most notably during part of the Kid Boo finale. Again, I'm not a huge fan of the Falcouner score overall nowadays, but when it worked? It worked.
3) Piccolo's Theme (Kikuchi Score) - This one and it's many variations were some of the first Kikuchi tracks to really, really grab me back in the day, especially whenever I'd hear them in the first three Ocean dubbed films. It was music like this that first made me think 'wow, I need to check out some of the Japanese version of the show at some point if for no reason other than to hear more of this music'.
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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:38 am

Xeogran wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:27 am
Yeah, and a pretty cool one. Check out Episode 65 at the end.
I guess I should have worded it better, but it's a bit before Goku starts his invasion.
Ohhh right, yeah I remember that one. It's when Goku is flying towards RRA HQ and we get a recap from past episodes to really hammer home how evil the Red Ribbon Army are (in case that wasn't apparent to viewers, I guess?). I cut that out in my first T1C pass so that the assault takes place over two episodes rather than four, haha. But the song itself is dope!

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:07 pm

For me in particular it would be the Trunks vs Cyborg Freeza/Android introduction episodes, seeing as those were literally the first bits of DBZ i remember watching on Toonami when i was six years old. Others of particular note were the dubs of Z movies 1-3 which was all i saw from the Ocean cast era until repeats of the edited 1-53 (67) episodes were airing alongside first runs of the Buu arc sometime around 2001 or 2002.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Desassina » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:22 pm

It's the beginning of Goku and Gohan's journey, in Dragon Ball and Z, respectively. The adventures of Goku were quick paced while Gohan's were filled with worthwile waiting. There's an interesting contrast between somebody who starts so strong, that there's no opponent except for the vast land to cover, and another who is put between the experienced fighters to go far into space.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:42 pm

-Goku traveling on snake way

This is when everything started to me. I saw one of those episodes in TV and started watching DB. No idea which episode was that exactly but Goku didn't meet Princess Snake yet or met her in this episode.

-Goku giving energy to Frieza

This was the moment that made my very angry. I remember jumping on bed and screaming to Goku to not give energy to that evil guy

-GT being aired and especially Goku vs Baby Vegeta fight

this was always my favourite fight as it included my favourite form and favourite villain. I was happy that there is another series and when i saw that opening...omg

-Pan being absorbed by Naturon Shenron

I was scared by this scene as a kid. This was probably a scene i remembered the most from entire GT as a kid.

-Dragon Ball episode 1

When GT ended i was shocked when i saw yet another series being aired and even more shocked when i saw kid Goku (the KID kid Goku, not GT kid Goku). I had no idea that there was something before Z back then. I was sure that DB is over (well i was right since there was nothing past GT events) and i could never expect that there is something more.

-Dragon Ball Final Bout

that was my first DB game and i remember that my first question when i saw character select screen was if Baby is playable lol.
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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:09 pm

My nostalgia for the series is a bit wonky. There's the standard stuff, yes, but in recent years, there's also this nostalgia for a period in Dragon Ball that didn't even exist and I blame Super for it.
FUNimation dub, so obviously a lot of nostalgia for that, even though it's been retroactively hurt by my discovery at how much of that was a complete bastardization. Maybe being a writer myself amplifies that, because I've always had this fear of Executive Meddling completely changing a story I'd write, well before I learned just how tonally and spiritually different 90s American DBZ was from the original manga and anime. It was more looking at things like Eragon and how Hollywood adapted the first book and did it so poorly that they actually prevented themselves from even making future movies just because they changed & took out extremely plot important characters and events. Or how Hollywood adapted Dragon Ball itself (as well as Avatar: The Last Airbender), changing so many things just to appease market research and different cultural sensibilities (the latter of which didn't even make sense because it was an American-made show). Or how TV shows based on books could spiral out of control due to having more than one writer that has to follow corporate tropes (see: Game of Thrones). I get that you have to make changes when adapting something to a different medium, but as the Nostalgia Critic said in his review of The Last Airbender, they have to be changes that make sense. Even (perhaps especially) if you're adapting something from an entirely different culture. Imagine the Chinese redubbing an American Western to be more suitable for airing. Probably a cliche example to use, but imagine Beijing making Clint Eastwood's character in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly to be a more virtuous and pro-CCP character, someone who follows all the qualities of what makes a good Sino-communist. That's sort of like what we got for Son Goku, and I still distinctly remember preferring Kung Fu Space Jesus for so long until it finally dawned on me, "Hey, imagine one of your characters that you put a lot of heart and soul into, where their character actually serves a narrative point that makes you proud because it's not entirely shit— now imagine there's a dubbed version in another country that completely changes that character, thus ruining the entire point of their existence, even though it resonated with that country's youth to the point that your character is arguably more famous there than in your home country."

I bring this up only because this realization genuinely did retroactively harm my childhood. There's jokes about "RIP my childhood" but I really do think learning how totally Dragon Ball was changed for the American market makes me feel like I grew up with a lie. Like learning your childhood hero's an asshole and always was.


BUT. I still have so many fond feelings for so much of DB, Z, and GT regardless.

Early 2000s
2003 or so, I remember watching the Saiyan-to-Freeza arc of the show and adoring it (as well as noticing that the show kept repeating). I also remember catching the Boo saga and following it through to the end. All in all, I never watched Dragon Ball Z the whole way through as a kid because I kept missing episodes. In fact, I completely missed a full third of the series— my dad talked about "old-school Dragon Ball Z" referencing when Trunks arrived, and his favorite character flat-out was Future Trunks. But I didn't know who that was. I didn't get to see Future Trunks until I played Legacy of Goku 2, and by that time I was already familiar with regular ol' Trunks. Up until I watched the entirety of Z all the way through in 2010 (see below), I legit never saw the Cell arc except for a very tiny few episodes ("Ghosts From Tomorrow" was one) and through video game retellings (the first time I even saw footage of most parts of that arc was, I shit you not, from the rips in Dragon Ball Z: Sagas. How pathetic on my part). I also missed Gohan in high school and only caught the tail end of Majin Vegeta's storyline. Him using all of his ki and turning to stone (and then shattering on the ground and blowing away as dust in the wind) actually terrified me as a kid on top of being an amazing part of the show. I think it's because I grew up with the Boo arc that I never disliked it.
I also remember renting the first Broly movie around 2003 or 2004 from Blockbuster, over and over again. I was that perfect age to be into a character like Broly.
And I did enjoy GT. To an extent. Even when I was 10 years old, I could tell something was off about the show. However, I did have a DVD of it, and I even still have that now 15-year-old disc: the trio of episodes where a still-blinded Son Goku gets a ki recharge to go Super Saiyan 4 and, then gets beaten by Super Yi Xing Long, then fuses with Vegeta into Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, then fucks it up.
I also remember really liking Goten around this time. It was Gohan before him, but Gohan apparently became badass when I wasn't looking, so I wanted Goten to go Ulti-Mystic/SSJ4/Kaioken x5000 and beat up Boo, or turn evil and actually matter to the plot. It's not that he was a kid appeal character; there's a couple of archetypes I'm just inordinately drawn to and I'm too lazy to write out here.
And there was also Dragon Ball Z: Uncut in 2005. It didn't go anywhere because we were all DBZ'd out by that point, but I was still eagerly watching it up until it got replaced by Naruto. It and Broly: Second Coming were favorites, and I also discovered Dragon Ball Z fansites around that time. Those based on Angelfire and GeoCities and whatnot. It's here that a lot of misconceptions I had about Z started (like Super Saiyan being based on a completely nonexistent "Golden Warrior" myth).

Dragon Ball, as in the original Dragon Ball, I actually did watch the whole way through. At the time, I didn't enjoy it because I was one of THOSE kids. No Super Saiyan? No Faulconer? No planet-destroying blasts? Not interested. I didn't give a shit about "strategy and tactics". I'd have eaten up Dragon Ball Super as a 10-year-old. And yet— and yet and yet and yet— I still watched every episode. So something was keeping me coming back.

I played LoG 1 and 2 and have nostalgia for both— though I'm never returning to the first game, even for a laugh. The TFS playthrough's good enough for me.
I also have some nostalgia for Super Butoden 2 and 3, which I emulated on my PC. I couldn't understand a goddamn thing, but I figured enough out and used the cheat code to have some fun. There was also a Dragon Ball RPG for the Famicom that I downloaded. It was also pretty fun, though the translation stopped about halfway through the story right after I climbed Korin's tower. I also remember being disappointed at the time that there was no Legacy of Goku/Legend of Zelda/Pokemon-styled free roaming aspect because I was surprisingly invested.


Mid/late-2000s
Didn't really watch the show. Just played a ton of DBZ games. Like Budokai Tenkaichi 2. I still have fond memories of that one, especially when I'd create my own little arcs and play pretend. I also played Dragon Ball Z: Sagas. The "nostalgia" I have for it is mostly from finding all the glitches, like this one where doing this lightning-speed combo strike and then uppercutting made you keep that fiery aura for a short while. And flying through the stage boundaries. And getting stuck in level geometry. How was that game cleared for release?!
I didn't like Burst Limit when I first got it either, but by the time I wanted to try it again, I had already sold it.
And outside of some episodes I watched on YouTube back before copyright takedown spamming and looking up a few of those fansites around 2006 (seriously I distinctly remember SOMEONE called Super Saiyan Blue and I can't find that image for the life of me), I didn't properly get back into the franchise until I got the Orange Boxes. First half of the Z in 2009, later half in 2010. Then I did a glorious full watch through. Oh man, that brought me back. I sold all those DVDs years ago because I actually have real internet access now and not dial-up via America Online, but I can't deny that the Orange Boxes definitely made me a fan again.
I almost cried at the very end of the Boo arc because of that journey... though I still had the epilogue part of the series to go.


2010s
Fuck Ultimate Tenkaichi.
Also, I remember that hype over Battle of Gods, as well as seeing what Super Saiyan God might look like. I remember seeing that leaked image and thinking it looked like False Super Saiyan. This was when people thought it was going to look like a golden Super Saiyan 4, and I just knew that there were fun times ahead when expectations clashed with reality.
I remember I was active on the DBZF forums back then (before that acronym meant something else), and I also joined Kanzenshuu under a different name (before VegettoEX brings the banhammer: to be fair, I had a different cross-site name then too and just made this account to be consistent.)
And I'm nostalgic for Dragon Ball Z Abridged, which I first got into in late 2013. Episodes 35-38 in particular.



Finally, there's that "nostalgic for something that never happened" thing I mentioned at the start. It developed along two paths.
1: Out of a nostalgia for a time when Dragon Ball was finished, though I only recognized it in retrospect (like the Belle Epoque or the '90s) For me personally, this was 2005-2012. There was no new material being made (except for one obscure anniversary special), and thus nothing but rumors of Dragon Ball AF and Dragon Ball Hoshi. DBZ games weren't selling well at all and were cycling through gimmicks to fill gameplay just because they didn't have the budget to make fully fleshed-out titles. DBZ Kai proved lackluster. All in all, Dragon Ball felt like it was finished. And sometime a couple years ago, I came to terms with that as being the optimal situation because I'd rather it be complete and rest for the future to enjoy instead of ongoing and declining in quality like the Simpsons or Spongebob.

2: "Tropical wuxia". In 2016, I started jotting down ideas for this story that was basically just my own version of Dragon Ball, complete with a Saiyan ripoff race, and then I became a bit more committed to it in 2018. And one of the settings I kept coming back to was something I dubbed "tropical wuxia"— named more because the setting's filled with green palm trees, bright blue skies and a sparkling sea, sandy beaches, and a generalized East Asian setting. This actually came from Sonic the Hedgehog, of all places, but I also found it in Dragon Ball and realized I adored that sort of setting quite a bit and incorporated it into that story concept (which is still really just ideas banging around).


Because this coincided with when I realized I actually preferred Dragon Ball being complete circa 2005-2012, I developed this false memory of the senshi on Papaya Island, not for any tournament, reflecting on everything in a meta-sense. Whenever I'd think of games like Infinite World or the Yo! Son Goku special, I'd think of this scene. Mid-to-late 2000s Dragon Ball felt comfortable, like it was retired. And it seemed everyone wanted it back. Sort of like a "be careful of what you wish for" scenario.
May or may not be writing a Dragon Ball-inspired serial.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:53 am

DBZ Movie 12 and the Buu era in general, because one of the earliest clips of Japanese DBZ I ever saw (which was on Caster's site I believe) was Goku going Super Saiyan 3 against Janemba.

This stems from the period in the late 90s through the early 2000s where I was finding out about the show through fansites and guidebooks; specifically, reading about arcs, characters, and movies that hadn't debuted in the west yet. Of that material, the stuff that intrigued me the most was mostly the Buu era stuff, giving all that material a mystique that has morphed into nostalgia over the years.

Also, the three PS1 games since those were my first DBZ games (Ultimate Battle 22 and Legends more so than Final Bout).

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:45 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 pm
First off, I send you my condolences for your brother. :( Might not mean much coming from a random guy on the internet, but I know how hard it is to lose someone you love.
Gonna second this sentiment first and foremost above all else. As someone who's lost their share of close friends and loved ones over the years, I extend my deepest sympathies to the OP.

So to the topic itself: for about a little over a decade+ now, I've mostly stopped feeling very much in the way of "nostalgia" towards various bits of media (apart from maybe some pieces of music, where its almost inescapable to some degree). First and foremost, online & fan culture from most of the 2000s and 2010s has more or less stone cold murdered the entire concept of nostalgia for me. I feel like I'm not even capable of feeling nostalgia anymore even if I somehow still wanted to (and I don't really).

I'm at a point where the entire notion of nostalgia is basically synonymous with "throw aside any shred of critical thought or engagement or new knowledge you've obtained and view everything purely through the prism of your earliest childhood self as if you were just born yesterday". And... yeah, that entire mindset to me is something that should be wholeheartedly scorned and discarded entirely for beyond obvious and self-evident reasons. Nostalgia at this point, after the past 15 solid years of nerd culture zeitgeist, has basically come to mean a kind of willful mental regression to me, almost a kind of anti-intellectualism.

Its an admission that "I will overlook and blindly defend ANYTHING, no matter how indefensible and self-evidently stupid and asinine it may be, purely because I happened to be exposed to it at a time in my life when I didn't know any better." And more disturbing of all, it carries the inherent and unavoidable connotation that "I miss a time in my life when I was completely ignorant and lacking in knowledge and wisdom SO much that I'd give anything to return to it, because the pain of knowing and having progressed as a person is simply too much for me to bear. I'll even go to the point of fetishizing even the silliest, dumbest of totems that represent and embody that time in my life to me."

Not sure how many of you are nerds for the etymology of words, but the roots of the word "nostalgia" are the Latin phrases "Nostos" and "Algos". Roughly meaning "the pain of returning home". It was used back in the 18th century to describe a kind of homesickness so strong and so palpable that it was actually considered a real medical condition and a mental pathology.

In many ways, I find the origins of the word to still ring as fairly apt in the present time.

Because I've come to see nostalgia in the millennial era as a profound and palpable fear of growing up, a fear of changing, and a fear of evolving, both mentally and emotionally.

I still need to make a proper thread on the subject of my general time spent in this community over the years, and gathering up some of the both incredibly wonderful and downright horrific moments that I'll both forever treasure as well as be forever disturbed by (sometimes simultaneously within the same breath). But this seemingly pathological terror at facing change and specifically facing the prospect of inhabiting an adult world and discarding the mindset of a child... that's been easily and overwhelmingly THE principal and over-arching throughline of much of what I've taken away from this community (and much of broader "geek culture" across the 2000s and 2010s) throughout the numerous years that I've been here.

I suppose that does certainly scan with this being a community dedicated to a 30+ year old Japanese children's cartoon/comic. But despite that, you'd think given the NUMEROUS fascinating and interesting points of cultural/artistic facets to it, there'd be a MUCH stronger current of examining it from the lens of a historical curiosity and that of an interesting hallmark of the evolution of a few specific art forms (manga, wuxia, etc), given both how much there is of that to explore here, as well as the overall age-range of the fanbase here for most of the last 15+ years.

The "clinging to my childhood blanket in terror at the prospect of getting older and changing" angle to this community is overall MUCH too large a part of it, and I've held a strong combination of strong disgust, morbid fascination, and genuine heartfelt pity/sympathy for that aspect of it, in a wide degree of ranges over the years.

As far as I go personally with these things, especially given the impact that the last 15 years of online nerd culture has had on me: what I generally go by now with regards to any piece of art or media that I engage with is how well does it hold up for me in the present moment and with the benefit of the past mainly playing the role of crucial and critical context. I'm no longer the person I was 20 or 30 years ago, or even 10 or 5 years ago: I'm the person I am today. The past is something that you learn and grow from, not wallow within purely for its own sake: and CERTAINLY not out of a fear of growing or changing.

Does ANY book, film, TV show, or band, or whatever piece of art engage my present day mind or senses in any meaningful way in the present? If it doesn't, then I simply have no interest in it whatsoever. I move past it and I largely disregard it as meaningless, and I don't lose a wink of sleep in doing so. If I'm still hanging with something that I'd been engaged with since a very long time ago... then it simply HAS to be doing something worthwhile for who I am now in the present, and not just who I was back then.

As far as Dragon Ball goes, while there's certainly plenty there that I never held any strong love or fondness for back in the day nor none (if not less than) in the present day as an adult (much of the Muten Roshi sexual humor being a prime example), there's still PLENTY there, certainly at least with regards to the cultural context of its creation and the incredible craft and talent that went into making it, that grips my present day mind. Particularly given my great degree of love and still strong connection to both the genre and its basic themes (which are STRONGLY centered on the ideas of the change, growth and radical transformation of oneself through personal diligence and discipline).

And I still find it genuinely aesthetically pleasing to a great degree, both in Toriyama's technique as an illustrator and sensibilities as a one-of-a-kind designer, as well as some excellent animation talent over on Toei's end (despite the obvious rough patches of badly animated episodes sprinkled about), to say nothing of Kikuchi's timelessly & effortlessly cool retro-60s/70s Shaw-era wuxia musical score that easily transcends its era the same exact way that most of Shaw and Harvest's pinnacle best martial arts film work in general does.

Chinese martial arts narratives and myths - along with the key themes present and inherent in Taoist and Buddhist martial concepts broadly speaking - are still as relevant to my present say sensibilities as they ever were to my past childhood self, and I don't foresee that changing anytime in the near or distant future. Thus, stories like Dragon Ball's will always hold SOME degree of strong or relevant resonance to me on a very powerful, primal level. And specifically within the context of Dragon Ball, there's PLENTY that's interesting and fascinating regarding its creative DNA and overall craft that's well worth exploring and discussing endlessly.

Absolutely none of this obviously applies to its Western/FUNimation end of things, and that aspect largely remains a gigantic, annoying nuisance that I've long ago been forced to accept that I'll have to forever and ever just deal with if I'm going to maintain any kind of discourse with anyone on this franchise. The fact that I'm apparently (much to my own surprise even) able to pay that price and trudge my way through a side of geek fandom I'd otherwise have NEVER cared about or possibly even been exposed to (that of dedicated fandom for Western children's television media among childless adults) shows a level of bond and care for this particular work that even I'm taken aback by.

The closest thing to "nostalgia" that I do still feel is with regards to not so much anything specific to Dragon Ball, but more with broader Western/U.S. anime fandom as a whole prior to the Cartoon Network bubble. I go genuinely and DEEPLY miss the pre-Cartoon Network era of anime fandom in the U.S. because to be it was largely defined by literally the POLAR DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE of what the post-Cartoon Network anime fandom in the Western world came to define over the years. And I mean "define" in terms of a general mindset and ethos present within the broader fanbase of both respective eras.

By and large, anime fandom in the U.S. from around the mid-80s to the mid/late 90s was generally defined as pushing for the cutting edge of an art form (in this case, that of animation), of seeing the artistic and creative potential locked within this medium of hand-drawn/hand-crafted filmmaking and wanting to see it pushed further and to grow far beyond past the stifling boundaries it had been saddled with on Western shores (that of light, featherweight children's entertainment meant to sell toys and merchandise).

The idea was, if live action film can do things as broad ranging as relatably humanistic drama, historical fiction, existentialistic hard sci fi, abstract art house surrealism, or even schlocky B grade straight to video grindhousey horror and action... then why NOT animation as well, where the physical limits are even FEWER? And for some reason ONLY Japan, out of ANY other part of the world, seemed to clue into this before anyone else had (some rare art house examples on the fringes of European and American animation notwithstanding): certainly on anything approaching this broad-ranging of a level.

By contrast, the post-Cartoon Network era of Western anime fandom picked up little or NONE of this inherent ethos, beyond a VERY surface level. By and large, anime fandom in the West became inextricably and irrevocably tied (if not outright bolted and chained) firmly to the specific sensibilities of Cartoon Network and Toonami in the late 90s and early 2000s. The reason being PURELY because THAT'S the prism and venue through which a VAST overwhelming majority of present day Western fans in the millennial era had been introduced to it... and there's a pathological REFUSAL to let go of that over-idealized memory of that first sensation of discovery in them.

So rather than simply keep that general youthful spirit of discovery of new things alive by branching out and discovering MORE freshly new things and new forms and styles and sensibilities of art hitherto unknown and foreign to them... there seems to be almost this increasingly insular cottage industry of attempting to EXACTLY recreate and replicate the general aesthetics and circumstances of where elementary school aged children were when they first discovered anime on Cartoon Network circa 1999/2000. Its almost EXACTLY backwards in its thinking.

Same kinds of generalized Shonen action animation ala DBZ, same kinds of "gotta catch 'em all"-style of merch-driven titles ala Pokemon, same kind of faux-"edgy" for grade schoolers aesthetics that so many people in fandom today continually decry out in public, yet can't seem to stop continually returning to time and time and time again in their general pursuits of current media to recommend and promote. Like the zeitgeist for mainstream Western anime fandom has forever been standing still since Goku and Pikachu first appeared on their periphery exactly 20 years ago now. Its flat out depressing and dispiriting how profoundly little has changed or evolved in terms of the general creative imaginations and desires of the typical norm of present day anime fandom compared to the turn of the millennium.

That disparity between those two MARKEDLY different and opposing eras and zeitgeists in fandom... my missing of the former and disgust towards the latter is the closest thing to "nostalgia" that I still tend to feel these days.

Granted there HAS been SOME pushback as time's gone on, and there's certainly a niche element of younger, modern day anime fandom that's far, far more exploratory and both intellectually curious as well as historically-minded in their interest in Japanese animation: but while I LOVE that this fringe aspect of the fandom exists, its still a smaller niche of the much broader and unchanging mainstream core of it, and I'd love for it to continue to grow and to eventually outgrow (in scope and size) the mainstream "all action Shonen (and creepy Moe/ecchi) all the time" segment that still defines so much of the majority of fandom.

Its funny too, because I genuinely and wholeheartedly have always believed (and continue to believe steadfastly) in keeping the basic SPIRIT of youthful discovery alive later in life as an adult and even as an elderly person. To me, remaining forever curious for new knowledge, forever hungry for new horizons of creativity and for new sensations and experiences to explore.... THAT to me embodies a "youthful energy and mindset" far, FAR infinitely more than simply remaining steadfastly loyal and unmoving from the same EXACT creative place and sensibilities that one had 10, 20, 30+ years ago as a small child.

Its the MASSIVE difference between being youthful and being just plain childish.

I suppose what disheartens me the most is that this mentality of youthfulness being defined by a never-ceasing hunger to explore and to try new things and experience new concepts... this is an INCREDIBLY key, principal motif and central theme in so much of the kind of generic, boilerplate Shonen Action titles that the past 20 years worth of fandom has been so singularly obsessed with. And indeed, I strongly agree that its a VERY valid and important life lesson for one to take to heart in real life!

And yet... so VERY few people within this fandom EVER actually live by it. For all the talk about "I love Shonen like One Piece and Dragon Ball, because they're all about adventure and discovery"... there's a profound lack of adventurism or sense of discovery for new things present within much of this fanbase overall, and more an almost ritualistic clinging to of the past (see also: what people who are fans of it tend to like the most about Dragon Ball Super).

I mean that's the real kicker to me: I've been a vociferous detractor and critic of "generic Action Shonen" within this community for ages now and find little to no redeeming value in most of it... and yet, often it seems like I tend to most strongly agree with and take to heart one of its more core, important themes far more so than most of its most diehard fans seem to.

But yeah: nostalgia sucks and is VASTLY over-indulged in and over-revered, to the detriment of not just critical thinking and intellectual/personal growth, but also often at the direct expense of moving forward in life and keeping "young in mind and spirit" by constantly seeking to discover and try new and different things and explore new horizons.

I'd even go so far as to say that if you're main, primary, or even SOLE remaining reason to stay connected to Dragon Ball is PURELY a sense of "nostalgia", an attachment to what it USED to represent to who you USED to be many, many years ago, but hasn't been relevant in your life in eons? Then I'd actually recommend you think about maybe just saying "fuck it" and dispensing with Dragon Ball entirely, along with anything else along a similar line.

Because at that point you're likely only still hanging around it out of a misplaced sense of obligation, not out of any serious love, passion, or anything that still engages in any meaningful way with your present day mindset. And something like DB, something meant to be inherently fun, creative, and vibrantly imaginative, should NEVER just become an "obligation" or like a "chore". At that point, it ceases to lose any real sense of meaningful purpose or value and is just a mental/emotional albatross: along with whatever other now-irrelevant residue from your childhood past that's still being clung to.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: What parts of the franchise evoke nostalgia for you?

Post by Yuli Ban » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Gonna get into some specifics.
The "most" nostalgic part of Dragon Ball Z for me was the part that I think I started with seriously. I know for a fact I saw Dragon Ball Z around 2001 or 2002 at midnight, particularly around the reveal of Majin Boo, and I didn't like it much for whatever reason. And my dad had some fansubbed version of the Cell arc, and what I remember from that was Gohan's elation over defeating Cell.
But the first part of the series that I seriously watched and had fun with was during a rerun of season 3, where I first saw this pleasantness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aMg-SN4UbU

Ohhh, that voice acting did NOT age well. But the nostalgia I have for this scene is incredible. I love the Ginyu theme and always only associated with this scene in particular. The fiery red aura with those golden waves peaking through...
Funnily enough, even in the comments section, people are saying that Faulconer's music sold the scene (it'll always be my soft spot regardless of the true '70s wuxia roots of Dragon Ball), but there's not a single person who defends the voice acting. It really is just... ouch.

2 fun facts: I actually played Legacy of Goku 1, and that's where I first saw Super Saiyan. I didn't know if Goku's voice was gruff and evil or not, and since I hadn't reached that point in the series, I couldn't wait to see what it looked like in action. Seeing the golden sparks in Goku's aura when I saw a rerun made me tense up and think, "HE'S GONNA DO IT!" I was actually kinda disappointed that this wasn't it, even though I knew that he wasn't supposed to transform until he faced Freeza.
Also, the only reason why I actually gave Dragon Ball Z any time at all was because I drew a shitty stick image scene where one of the characters powered up with that very same kaioken aura, and something in my 7-year-old brain clicked and I went, "Wait a second, I should check this out further." And then began me creating shitty Dragon Ball """comics""", often with stick figures in the very beginning, under the name "Dragon Power". Who knew that wasn't going to be the first time I ripped off the series?

So considering this is the scene that sold me on Dragon Ball in the first place, it's natural that it's my favorite.

________________________________

Toonami's sinister promos and bumpers is also a source of nostalgia. I still have that music, "Hammer".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xOhU0M_eYM

Really brings me back.
May or may not be writing a Dragon Ball-inspired serial.

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