Any Canadians that have YTV recordings of the Blue Water dub?

[DBGod]

I'm looking for anyone who have their own personal recordings of the Blue Water dub and might be interested in helping me with my preservation and restoration project. I've completed my long term goal for the Westwood dub for Dragonball Z, and now I just need any recordings I can get for the Blue Water dub for Dragonball and Dragonball GT. If you have any personal recordings please do not hesitate to inform me, any contribution is greatly appreciated and I am close to having every episode in Hi-Fi stereo.

I have in my possession nearly every episode for all three series for the Westwood and Blue Water dubs respectively. The video recording media I have were very well preserved, and upon properly capturing the VHS tapes the fidelity sounds incredible. I've undergone a process of repairing the audio on a professional level for any imperfections that might be present. The results are phenomenal and the audio is ready to be synced to the appropriate DVD video for what I define as the definitive remaster.

If there is anyone who is willing to contribute to my project or would like to learn more about it, please notify me. I will gladly discuss any details pertaining to lending or donating recordings via PM.

[Robo4900]

I would be interested in helping you out with this if you had any intentions to do more with your material than just brag about having it. From what I've seen, you have no interest in anything other than hoarding every recording of this stuff you can and flaunting stuff no one else can have in their faces. Your post history speaks to this quite clearly.

I will not aid in any effort where the goal is to take away this kind of thing from people, and just rub your own face in it, so I will not be providing my assistance, and I would advise anyone else reading to follow my example. There are far better ways of preserving this kind of content that doesn't end up just giving it to a digital hoarder.

[kei17]

What is the point of collecting the YTV rips of the Blue Water dub? It was originally edited and mastered in PAL, so Toonami UK got younger-generation masters without the ghosting caused by PAL to NTSC conversion. Is there a difference in audio quality?

[Danfun64]

What is the point of collecting the YTV rips of the Blue Water dub? It was originally edited and mastered in PAL, so Toonami UK got younger-generation masters without the ghosting caused by PAL to NTSC conversion. Is there a difference in audio quality?

Well, the rumor is that the YTV airings are less censored than the Toonami UK recordings (though AFAIK the only confirmed instance was the ending of ep 64 removed since the UK didn't broadcast OG DB yet). It's possibly more faithful in other ways, remember that YTV kept the French OP of OG DB more or less intact (albeit expanding it a little) while the UK broadcasts replaced the OP with a more action focused intro? On a related note, are you sure that "It was originally edited and mastered in PAL"? Since Canada is an NTSC region, I would've thought that Ocean would have received PAL to NTSC conversions from the AB Groupe, produced their version based off the PAL to NTSC conversions, and then what the UK aired was a double conversion. I could be wrong though. Maybe OG DB was a double conversion (weren't even the YTV broadcasts of OG DB with PAL Speedup?), but for GT the AB Groupe gave the original NTSC D2 masters more or less directly (remember that UK broadcasts of BW GT appear to keep the same speed and audio pitch as the original material).

@DBGod Not that this is the place to be talking about it (then again music replacement projects like the Yamamoto Kai revival and the Faulcouner Kai and Z revivals are allowed their links posted) but you do plan on sharing your "definitive remaster" online, even if you plan on limiting distribution to private trackers? Also, why are you asking for Hi-Fi YTV Blue Water sources unless you need additional sources to supplement your own? I mean, you're on the record for saying the following:

I own the entirety of the Blue Water dub, in Hi-Fi Stereo nonetheless recorded from YTV.

[Robo4900]

What is the point of collecting the YTV rips of the Blue Water dub? It was originally edited and mastered in PAL, so Toonami UK got younger-generation masters without the ghosting caused by PAL to NTSC conversion. Is there a difference in audio quality?

Well, the rumor is that the YTV airings are less censored than the Toonami UK recordings (though AFAIK the only confirmed instance was the ending of ep 64 removed since the UK didn't broadcast OG DB yet).

The end of episode 64 of GT being cut down in the UK was most likely to remove the Japanese text scroll at the bottom, during the montage.

It's possibly more faithful in other ways, remember that YTV kept the French OP of OG DB more or less intact (albeit expanding it a little) while the UK broadcasts replaced the OP with a more action focused intro?

Correct. Canada got an English dub of the French OP, while the UK got a drum & bass remix.

How precisely this factors into "faithful"ness, I'm not sure.

On a related note, are you sure that "It was originally edited and mastered in PAL"? Since Canada is an NTSC region, I would've thought that Ocean would have received PAL to NTSC conversions from the AB Groupe, produced their version based off the PAL to NTSC conversions, and then what the UK aired was a double conversion. I could be wrong though. Maybe OG DB was a double conversion (weren't even the YTV broadcasts of OG DB with PAL Speedup?), but for GT the AB Groupe gave the original NTSC D2 masters more or less directly (remember that UK broadcasts of BW GT appear to keep the same speed and audio pitch as the original material).

Regardless of anything, the Blue Water dub of OG DB definitely had speedup. So either the PAL masters AB Groupe produced were blended to NTSC and the show was produced that way, with the UK getting a PAL double conversion of that, or it was produced in PAL, then had an NTSC conversion for Canada. (GT had no speedup, since AB Groupe's masters of GT were PAL conversions of the original Japanese videotape master)
Either way, I think the UK was ahead of Canadian airings anyway, and most territories Westwood were working with were using PAL, so it's not unreasonable to say it was produced on PAL first...
However, I haven't ever investigated this, so I'm unsure. My gut instinct is to trust that Kei's right, he's quite knowledgeable about this stuff.

[DBGod]

Spoiler:

I would be interested in helping you out with this if you had any intentions to do more with your material than just brag about having it. From what I've seen, you have no interest in anything other than hoarding every recording of this stuff you can and flaunting stuff no one else can have in their faces. Your post history speaks to this quite clearly.

I will not aid in any effort where the goal is to take away this kind of thing from people, and just rub your own face in it, so I will not be providing my assistance, and I would advise anyone else reading to follow my example. There are far better ways of preserving this kind of content that doesn't end up just giving it to a digital hoarder.

People who have contacted me in the past have seen my work and we're glad to have contributed to my project as a result of seeing my progression. Those who have helped have been given private access to my work along with periodic updates etc. So you are sadly mistaken, what you see and what actually occurs behind the scenes are two very different scenarios, a prime example of you judging a book by it's cover. Funny, someone from this forum has actually provided me with some recordings that were supposedly recorded by you, so I won't need anything from you. If your not interested then there is no need to spread negative attention or discredit me, as you are insulting those who have been generous enough to help with my project.

What is the point of collecting the YTV rips of the Blue Water dub? It was originally edited and mastered in PAL, so Toonami UK got younger-generation masters without the ghosting caused by PAL to NTSC conversion. Is there a difference in audio quality?

I'd gladly accept anything actually, just thought I'd specify YTV because it's nostalgic to me. You are correct about the dub using PAL masters, however the UK version for both Dragonball as well as Dragonball GT actually had some additional edits/censorship not present in the Canadian YTV broadcasting, another but actually legitimate reason why I'm prioritizing Canadian recordings. One notable example would be the last episode of Dragonball GT having the credit roll removed in any PAL broadcast.

[Robo4900]

If your not interested then there is no need to spread negative attention or discredit me, as you are insulting those who have been generous enough to help with my project.

From what I've seen, which you only seem to have demonstrated further here, you're only interested in gloating about having stuff no one else has. You say a handful of people who've contributed have been allowed into your inner circle, and good for them... So the impression I'm getting here is that you're an elistist. If someone has recordings, then they're in luck, and can get into your circle... People who don't, or would rather not trade with someone who gives such an impression, are out of luck and can take a hike.

I'm attempting to deter people from doing the wrong thing; giving up their recordings to someone who'll never give this stuff to the wider public who grew up on this stuff and have never been served by the home video of the show. People pirating stuff is their own business, there are situations where some say it's justified, there are situations where most say it's not, generally the best thing is to not get involved in that whole debate... But people pirating stuff so they can prevent anyone else from seeing it, that's a singularly selfish thing to do.

I've been wrong about many things before, but if anything, your talk of "private access" just makes me more sure that it's a noble cause for me to attempt to dissuade anyone from making the mistake of giving up what they have to an elistist hoarder.
Maybe I'm wrong. And sure, if someone's got a wrong impression of you, you have no obligation to prove them wrong. But the attitudes I've seen you display here disgust me, and I'm not someone who can just stand by and let people make what I believe to be a great mistake. If you're up for it, I'd love to PM back and forth with you and discuss the ethics of all this (I can promise I'll give you a fair shake, for what it's worth), but I'll understand if you'd rather just ignore me.

I think I've said my piece well enough for now, and I'll try not to bother you further in this thread without further prompting.

[DBGod]

Spoiler:

From what I've seen, which you've kind of shown to be true now, you're only interested in gloating about having stuff no one else has. You say a handful of people who've contributed have been allowed into your inner circle, and good for them... So you like to gloat and you're an elistist.

I'm attempting to deter people from doing the wrong thing; giving up their recordings to someone who'll never give this stuff to the wider public who grew up on this stuff and have never been served by the home video of the show.

I've been wrong about many things before, but if anything, your talk of "private access" just makes me more sure that it's a noble cause for me to attempt to dissuade anyone from making the mistake of giving up what they have to an elistist hoarder.

You can stop making false assumptions, you've made your point in your previous post and your presence is no longer needed in this thread if that's all you wish to say. It is entirely up to me if I want to share anything to the public so stop being so butthurt and move along. That is why only those who have helped me in the past will have continued private access along with updates on the general progression. They are happy and those are the people I care to please, not you.

Edit: I've noticed you seem to have added to your post, so I'll say with all due respect I understand where you are coming from, but I simply do not have the time to convince the general populous what my intentions are, however they are pure since I am passionate about this and have spent a lot of my spare time on it over the years. At this point I'm far and beyond justification and quite frankly I don't care. I have my archive and equipment to do the talking and can gladly direct anyone here to those who have current access to my work.

[Robo4900]

Spoiler:

From what I've seen, which you've kind of shown to be true now, you're only interested in gloating about having stuff no one else has. You say a handful of people who've contributed have been allowed into your inner circle, and good for them... So you like to gloat and you're an elistist.

I'm attempting to deter people from doing the wrong thing; giving up their recordings to someone who'll never give this stuff to the wider public who grew up on this stuff and have never been served by the home video of the show.

I've been wrong about many things before, but if anything, your talk of "private access" just makes me more sure that it's a noble cause for me to attempt to dissuade anyone from making the mistake of giving up what they have to an elistist hoarder.

You can stop making false assumptions, you've made your point in your previous post and your presence is no longer needed in this thread if that's all you wish to say. It is entirely up to me if I want to share anything to the public so stop being so butthurt and move along. That is why only those who have helped me in the past will have continued private access along with updates on the general progression. They are happy and those are the people I care to please, not you.

Yes, you care to please those who give you nice presents, and you consider yourself to have ownership over these recordings (including ones you say I made?) therefore you think their fate is yours to command, we get it.

[VegettoEX]

Y'all are just saying vague nonsense words. Who's doing what, why should anyone care, is someone just parading as someone else, and what needs to be done about it if anything like seriously does this have anything at all to do with us?

Please just cut through and get to the point so we can remove the dirty laundry .

[Robo4900]

Y'all are just saying vague nonsense words. Who's doing what, why should anyone care, is someone just parading as someone else, and what needs to be done about it if anything like seriously does this have anything at all to do with us?

Please just cut through and get to the point so we can remove the dirty laundry .

Lol.

Okay, for the record, here's basically my understanding of the situation: DBGod has been gathering recordings of airings of the Westwood media dubs of Dragon Ball (that's the Blue Water studios dubs of Dragon Ball and GT, and the Ocean studios dub of Z episodes 123-291/108-276, depending on your numbering scheme). He has never had any intentions of sharing this stuff, except perhaps with those in his inner circle who he perceives to be worthy of being privy to his efforts.

In my view, this is silly, rather selfish, and very petty: The Westwood dubs were what we got in the UK, Canada, and various parts of Europe I forget, but we haven't seen that stuff since like 2005 officially. The only way people such as myself can relive our childhood exposure to Dragon Ball (and the only way we've been able to for the past 14 years), with the cast we grew up on, is our own recordings, and what makes the rounds online.
Someone going out there and hoarding recordings essentially deprives people of the opportunity to watch this stuff again, unless they happen to have some high-quality recordings to share that he hasn't already got his hands on.

Naturally, if you consider piracy in all forms to be wrong, even in cases like this where there's no official option, you'll see this whole thing as dumb. And... It is. I hate wading through this shit, I just want to watch that cartoon I used to watch with my brother on TV when I was 7.

But, alas, it is what it is. So, I'm talking about this here mainly because anyone out there who's willing to share recordings would be able to achieve the goal of making their recordings available to those to whom it would bring joy if they share it with someone who isn't just going to hoard this stuff and keep it out of the public's hands.

Currently, the situation with the Westwood dub availability to the wide public is that most of DB is availble, all of GT is available, and I think all of Z... But aside from a handful of episodes that are pretty good-looking/sounding, most are unwatchable, or barely above that.
So, I've come to the philosophy that these people like DBGod who would hoard this stuff are utterly selfish, and so I would discourage anyone from sharing with him.

So... TL;DR: DBGod has all of the Canadian dubs in nice quality but doesn't want anyone else seeing it unless they give him more nice things to hoard, and that makes me an angryface emoji.

(To pre-empt something DBGod will inevitably drop in to "gotcha" me: I have previously been known to share a clip or two from my own recordings online, but not share the whole thing. I held onto this stuff in the hopes of trading with it. But I only got 7 episodes of Z and 6 of GT, so it's proven a bit useless. So IDK what I'm doing with that stuff precisely. I study full time, so my brain's a bit scattered about these things, and I don't really have a coherent answer, but I do want this stuff to make the rounds eventually, but it feels like a useless drop in the ocean -- no pun intended -- so... IDK, I guess I've been waiting/hoping to get more/better recordings to share alongside this stuff? I really don't know. I haven't thought about it much at all)

[Valerius Dover]

I could deal with that low quality, but the fact that three DB episodes (71, 95, and 124) are completely missing from the Internet kind of sucks. It's like a part of history being gone.

[Robo4900]

I could deal with that low quality, but the fact that three DB episodes (71, 95, and 124) are completely missing from the Internet kind of sucks. It's like a part of history being gone.

Well there's that, and most of the last ~40-50 episodes of OG DB have a weird skipping issue that makes the music sound awful and screws up everyone's delivery, an issue that also afflicts a few Z episodes, parts of some episodes are missing because the only available recordings missed the opening or closing couple of minutes...

And just... Ugh. The recordings are so shit, man. It's damn depressing to listen to. There's a thick layer of tape hiss over everything, everything's distorted by ~50kbps MP3 audio... And people have DVD-quality recordings which they just refuse to share. It's maddening that some people are so petty and selfish, y'know?

I realise this sounds entitled. And it kind of is. But that doesn't mean the people who hoard this stuff aren't petty and selfish, y'know. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

[kei17]

On a related note, are you sure that "It was originally edited and mastered in PAL"? Since Canada is an NTSC region, I would've thought that Ocean would have received PAL to NTSC conversions from the AB Groupe, produced their version based off the PAL to NTSC conversions, and then what the UK aired was a double conversion. I could be wrong though. Maybe OG DB was a double conversion (weren't even the YTV broadcasts of OG DB with PAL Speedup?), but for GT the AB Groupe gave the original NTSC D2 masters more or less directly (remember that UK broadcasts of BW GT appear to keep the same speed and audio pitch as the original material).

I'm sure they edited the original DB in PAL because the UK broadcast didn't have any frame blending. The same goes for the last few episodes of the Westwood dub using the AB Groupe footage. I think Canadian video studios have easier access to PAL equipment than those in the US because they import a lot of PAL contents from France for the French-speaking territories.

I could deal with that low quality, but the fact that three DB episodes (71, 95, and 124) are completely missing from the Internet kind of sucks. It's like a part of history being gone.

I've got episode 124.

[DBGod]

Robo, your entire post implies you desperately want access to what I have. You have your own recordings, you could have traded with me and I would have been more then willing to share my project with you. But for this reason and others, that is long far and gone. Sorry. Now for the third time, you've made your point and you can leave. Your not contributing at all but giving a false impression of me and completely disrespecting those who actually can vouch for me.

As a general statement to anyone who have their own recordings, if your interested to see what I have to offer I can present to you a visual framework of what I have been doing for the past few years along with samples of my work. I use high end equipment to capture VHS tapes, not generic consumer equipment. I also do my own restoration of the audio to remove any unwanted artifacts. Luckily the quality of the media I have is excellent to begin with so not much needs to be done for restoration thankfully. So if you have anything, and your unsure or don't trust yourself enough to capture your tapes or whatever media format you might have I'll gladly do so on your behalf whilst returning your recordings if you wish, along with giving access to the project of course.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Threads like this just goes to show why the Canadian dubs should get a home release. All this petty bickering would cease as everyone who wants a decent quality remaster would buy it in a heartbeat. Granted it would likely go out of print and fetch ridiculous prices like Rock the Dragon, but at the very least good quality versions of these episodes (especially the aforementioned list ones) would be more widely circulated.

Instead of giving in to the hoarders I'd advise anyone to reach out to Funimation and demand they licence these dubs, even if it was just for a trial run on FunimationNow (which is open to UK and Irish viewers thanks to the Manga UK buyout).

[Danfun64]

Define "trial run". If the entirety of Westwood Z and Blue Water DB and GT (and hell, even every Big Green movie) was uploaded to FunimationNow and then deleted by 24 hours... by the time it's deleted there'll be web-dl's of everything.

[Robo4900]

Threads like this just goes to show why the Canadian dubs should get a home release. All this petty bickering would cease as everyone who wants a decent quality remaster would buy it in a heartbeat. Granted it would likely go out of print and fetch ridiculous prices like Rock the Dragon, but at the very least good quality versions of these episodes (especially the aforementioned list ones) would be more widely circulated.

Instead of giving in to the hoarders I'd advise anyone to reach out to Funimation and demand they licence these dubs, even if it was just for a trial run on FunimationNow (which is open to UK and Irish viewers thanks to the Manga UK buyout).

Agreed. Same goes for the broadcast audio: Funimation have had that in their hands for a good couple of years. Yet, have they shown any interest in actually putting it out there? Nope. Toei's been offered the broadcast audio multiple times, have they shown any interest in taking it? Nope.
The home video situation of Dragon Ball is so frustrating in so many ways. I'd buy a release with the broadcast audio in a heratbeat. I'd buy a proper 4:3 release that doesn't utterly destroy the video to ugly degrees in a heartbeat. I'd buy a boxset of the older dubs in a heartbeat.

Hell, Funi don't even have to do anything special to include the Pioneer movie dubs on their main releases, they already own them, they're uncut, they just inexplicably refuse to put it on their releases. It's ridiculous.
And that's not even mentioning the fact Funi have never issued the original as-aired 1999-2003 dubs of the Z series and movies since the original DVD singles. Every release has rearranged the dub music (not deliberately, either; it's a mistake down to the fact they didn't properly keep track of their production materials), dropped lines, swapped actors, mixing mistakes that renders some dialogue unlistenably quiet, awful jarring switches between 2007 and 1999 dialogue from the same character and actor...

God, why do Funimation and Toei seem so determined to make it hard to just sit and enjoy this show?

Robo, your entire post implies you desperately want access to what I have. You have your own recordings, you could have traded with me and I would have been more then willing to share my project with you. But for this reason and others, that is long far and gone.

Desperately?... Well, y'know what... Yeah, kind of. It would be nice to be able to finally watch this show I watched as a kid again in a watchable form, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that. Again, my main concern is the selfishness and pettyness of hoarding this stuff. Perhaps I haven't made that clear enough. But yes, I do really want to go back and experience this show I used to watch with my brother when I was 7 again. Shoot me for being nostalgic.

Now, let me make this perfectly clear: In absence of an official release, anyone who hoards this kind of stuff so normal people who aren't lucky enough to have this rare stuff already is out of luck. And anyone who contributes to the ridiculous, petty hoarding of this stuff is just... The worst, in my opinion. "no. i want all the toys on the playground for me. no one else can have it unless you give me candy."

And I'll reiterate: This is a dumb kids' show from 14 years ago. Why there's this crazy stuff going on around this, I don't much care. I just want it gone so people can enjoy their dumb kids' show from 14 years ago, myself included.

Now for the third time, you've made your point and you can leave. Your not contributing at all but giving a false impression of me and completely disrespecting those who actually can vouch for me.

As I say, the impression you've given so far is petty, selfish, and mean. All you've done to dissuade this is tell me to go away, and claim others can vouch for you, while generally being dismissive, barely even actually engaging with what I'm saying. I swear, it's like I'm arguing with a politician.

As a general statement to anyone who have their own recordings, if your interested to see what I have to offer I can present to you a visual framework of what I have been doing for the past few years along with samples of my work. I use high end equipment to capture VHS tapes, not generic consumer equipment. I also do my own restoration of the audio to remove any unwanted artifacts. Luckily the quality of the media I have is excellent to begin with so not much needs to be done for restoration thankfully. So if you have anything, and your unsure or don't trust yourself enough to capture your tapes or whatever media format you might have I'll gladly do so on your behalf whilst returning your recordings if you wish, along with giving access to the project of course.

Ah yes, good idea:

As a general statement to anyone who has their own recordings: You probably have a local facility who can transfer this stuff really nicely. There are people on OriginalTrilogy.com, and even here who would probably be willing to pitch in to get tapes captured. And there are many people out there who'll help you out in other ways, such as recommending equipment if you'd like to capture it yourself, or who can do the capturing themselves if you trust them to do so.
I encourage all who have tapes to not give them to such a selfish, petty individual as DBGod. Make your recordings available so people can watch the show they grew up on, don't feed this culture in the Dragon Ball fandom's underbelly of elitists only giving the good toys to the rich kids in the playground who can afford the good candy.

[DBGod]

I could deal with that low quality, but the fact that three DB episodes (71, 95, and 124) are completely missing from the Internet kind of sucks. It's like a part of history being gone.

That's exactly what I hope to prevent. I have those episodes and I can gladly help you.

[GokuDaimao]

I've got episode 124.

Okay, so? What does that do for us? Not like we're ever going to see it.