Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:14 am
I'm gonna go ahead and need a source on M10 being "fresh" and going off-formula.
I already gave an actual example, so I'm gonna need more than a snarky, dismissive remark before I believe you're not acting in bad faith and are actually worth my time to engage.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:16 pm

Uh, where?
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:00 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:29 pm
To be clear, I’m referring specifically to the animated movies that were distributed by Toei Animation, so Dragon Ball: Evolution and the other two live action movies don’t count.

Anyway, while opinions on the movies of course vary, I’m curious if there’s any generally accepted consensus on which one is the absolute worst of the bunch. From what I can tell, the Dragon Ball movies that are most commonly considered to be the worst by fans are DBZ Movie 6, Movie 7, Movie 10, and Movie 11. Back in the day, it seemed to me like the common consensus was that Movie 11 was the worst, but I don’t know how accurate that assessment is, or if it still holds up today.

Anyone have any idea on the matter?
Movie 6 seems to get mixed opinions and I feel the same way about it. It's got some really good fight scenes and is really well animated, and it's nice to see Goku and Vegeta team up for the first time ever. But the idea of Meta Cooler and the Big Gete Star is a bit convoluted, although the former does look... cool? For me the movie missed a real opportunity by not having Goku and Vegeta actually fight those Billions of Coolers. Now that would have been awesome.

I'm actually surprised that Movie 7 doesn't get more love. We never really got to see the original premise for the Android saga, of everyone teaming up in an all out battle against the Androids. I liked seeing all 3 Super Saiyans in action at once, and there were cool moments like Trunks killing 14 and Goku absorbing the Spirit Bomb.

Movies 10 and 11 I can understand. 10 really dragged out the scenes with Goten and Trunks for too long to the point were it was boring. It got better near the end, but I'd have rather have seen Vegeta and Piccolo get involved in favor of the overlong comedy scenes.

Movie 11 was different, but it felt like it was unnecessary to make Broly the villain again. There were some cool fight scenes so I'll give it that.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Kid Buu » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:05 pm

I love Movie 4. Love the city atmosphere, team work, and the false SS scene.

Slug is kind of a rehash of Daimao but all the movies borrow from the comic really.

As for my least favourite, I've always found Movie 7 uninteresting. I do like the arctic scenery though. Toriyama only really uses wastelands most of the time so the movies are refreshing in that aspect.

Of the newer films I'd say Resurrection F is my vote for worst. Agree with other posters it is tensionless.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:41 pm

Bio-Broly, DBS Broly and Ressurection 'F' were the worst movies to me.

Bio-Broly - the most stupid idea they could come to milk Broly's character more
DBS Broly - lazy rehash of 3 most popular DB movies, but 100 times worse, making Broly even more retarded character
Ressurection 'F' - Goku SSJ turns his hair blue to fight ressurected for 10th time Frieza who turns his body gold. It sounds like generic fanfic made by 10yo fan
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:45 pm

I don't really need you to tell me what this topic is about. If this thread has proven anything, which is what it was asking, is that there isn't that much of a consensus. However, both 7 and RoF have come up in multiple posts before my own. But, yes, if there is anything approaching a consensus, 4 and 11 are historically the most infamous.
Except that I don't think it has proven that point. 4 and 11 keep coming up constantly, and even your last sentence is good evidence of my point.
Because the villains are always, always, ALWAYS the least interesting parts of almost all of these movies. And even discounting that, movie 11's Broli is something fresh. If you're treading water in the same formula for the 7th time in a row, how is that not boring? I'll take the fun interplay between Videl, Goten, and Trunks (something you almost never get to see anywhere else), over the exact same thing I've seen in almost every other movie, only done WORSE.
I get why something different feels better by virtue of just being different, but I'll take familiar over non-formulaic and terrible. The interplay between Goten and Trunks wears out its welcome very quickly. So while no, the villains are never the most interesting parts of these movies, the worse the villains are, the worse the films are. No amount of fun interplay at the start changes that.

ANd yes, RoF is just awful. Freeza is rehashed and defeated for the exact same reason. He transforms without having thought through the transformation and how much power it drains.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:44 pm

While the lack of tension was certainly a big part of the problem with RF, I’d argue that it was also pretty formulaic. It followed the same setup as many of the older movies, in that there was very little plot, and what little there was seemed like it was just an excuse to show off the fighting. What’s worse is that the fighting doesn’t even look that good in hindsight, especially not those awful CG parts.

Still, I probably would’ve been willing to cut the movie some slack if it were shorter. I know that 90 minutes isn’t that long by modern movie standards, but even taking that into account, RF doesn’t do anything to earn its runtime. At least something like Movie 11 is upfront about how disposable and schlocky it is.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:17 pm

If there's one thing I like about Bio-Broly is that it has a young Keiji Fujiwara in it.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:27 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:44 pm
It followed the same setup as many of the older movies, in that there was very little plot
Isn't that basically all of DB?
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:45 pm

You can also put me in the group that thinks Resurrection F is a pretty bad movie. Like, "bottom five of the worst Dragon Ball movies ever", pretty bad. And I'd even go as far as to say that I think a lot of the problems that plague the story arcs of modern Dragon Ball narratives stem from the creative decisions that were allowed in that movie.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:23 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:27 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:44 pm
It followed the same setup as many of the older movies, in that there was very little plot
Isn't that basically all of DB?
Let’s put it this way: something like Battle of Gods didn’t have much plot either, but it at least felt like it had a purpose beyond the fighting. Even though I’m sick of Beerus and Whis’ shtick at this point, I genuinely liked them back when they were introduced in BoG. They were a nice change of pace from previous antagonists in the franchise, and they expanded the lore of the series in new and interesting ways. Plus, the movie had some nice character moments, and put an interesting twist on the regular Dragon Ball movie formula by not having Goku (or anyone else) defeat the antagonist at the end. I’m not saying that RF should’ve ended with Freeza winning, but it offered absolutely nothing beyond fighting and a couple of new transformations, whereas BoG actually felt like there was some passion put behind it.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:57 pm

I don't think that qualifies. Beerus's motivation was to have a fight. I wish people would stop separating fights from story/plot. In DB's case, they aren't separate. The fights are the story and the fights in themselves tell a mini-story. The plotting is simple but they are still plots.

Regarding RoF, I agree. It feels like am exercise in pure fan-service.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:06 am

Definitely the Bio-Broly movie.

Lord Slug and Super Android 13 are also pretty bad.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:54 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:45 pm
Except that I don't think it has proven that point. 4 and 11 keep coming up constantly, and even your last sentence is good evidence of my point.
Sometimes I feel I should never make conciliatory gestures towards you because you seem to take it as a "gotcha" moment. My last sentence was indeed conceding to you that, yeah, there are a couple that come up more than others. That was never in question, so don't act you like you found a chink in my armor when I deliberately wrote that. My point is that you can't establish a consensus without polling people, so I really don't understand why you felt compelled to bring up the fact that I did what literally every other person in this thread did.
I get why something different feels better by virtue of just being different, but I'll take familiar over non-formulaic and terrible. The interplay between Goten and Trunks wears out its welcome very quickly. So while no, the villains are never the most interesting parts of these movies, the worse the villains are, the worse the films are. No amount of fun interplay at the start changes that.
Perhaps I'm simply ascribing a tone to your text, but I can't help but find that first sentence comes across as somewhat condescending. I don't like Movies 10 and 11 by sole virtue of them being different, and I'd like to think you wouldn't assume I'd put that little critical thought into it. The fact that they are fresh and different than most of the other films, after more than half a dozen warmed up leftovers, is certainly a surface-level appeal. Practically any restaurant would feel like heaven after you've dined on nothing but week-old takeout.

But when you get right down to it, let me assure you that I find movie 7 terrible on its "merits" and movie 10 likewise good for the same. I would honestly take an entire movie of NOTHING but Goten, Trunks, and Videl searching for Dragon Balls and outwitting an unscrupulous shaman over the two minutes of "Women... they be shopping!" that contributes nothing in terms of plot or character and exists for no other reason than because most of the other movies have the characters engaged in some Designated Leisure Activity of the Film TM. "But," you say, "that's not the whole movie." You're right. Movie 7 also has completely boring villains and, outside of one new attack, nary a new idea to be found. So that's the only way I can get behind you on your rather reductive statement that "the worse the villains are, the worse the films are." Because that film has the worst villains ever and absolutely nothing else of interest to prop it up beyond that. Movie 10 ONLY suffers from a rather bland villains but everything else is fresh, funny, and exciting.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:13 am

Movie 8, the literal first Broly movie, opens with Goku wearing a suit while trying to navigate Gohan's school admission interview, while the other characters have a picnic in a meadow with terrible karaoke.

You can enjoy the shtick in M10, but "fresh and off-formula" it is not, and if anything it was far more entertaining the first time around.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:39 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:54 am
Sometimes I feel I should never make conciliatory gestures towards you because you seem to take it as a "gotcha" moment. My last sentence was indeed conceding to you that, yeah, there are a couple that come up more than others. That was never in question, so don't act you like you found a chink in my armor when I deliberately wrote that. My point is that you can't establish a consensus without polling people, so I really don't understand why you felt compelled to bring up the fact that I did what literally every other person in this thread did.
It wasn't me playing gotcha. I just found the statement at odds with everything else you wrote. it was a weird 180. Okay, now I get your point. I wasn't clear before and so it's clear, my statement about this thread not being about people's favorites, wasn't specifically aimed at you. My bad for not making that clear.
Perhaps I'm simply ascribing a tone to your text, but I can't help but find that first sentence comes across as somewhat condescending.
Sorry about that. It's not meant do speak down to anyone. It's hard to convey tone in text, but I don't think being different is enough to make those films entertaining and as the above poster pointed out (and even I thought) movie 11's beginning is hardly original interplay, especially since we see similar interplay in many of these movies. Those scenes, like the one in 7 and 8, are amusing and it's cool seeing Goku and co. (or whatever mix of characters) in different settings, but it's not the meat of these movies. And more universally, changing things up is often pleasurable for its own sake. Humans need change. I would never assume you ONLY like something because of a surface level difference and change of pace. I like your analogy with trying new food after week old leftovers. I've had that experience many times. However, while I enjoy the experience of trying something out, it doesn't mean I enjoyed the food if it's crappy. I like when the movies and series attempt something new, but there are too many variables. For whatever crap is in movie 7, there are more than enough moments (Goku's ball shot, one of the androids constantly falling in the snow, and a few moments here and there) over 11 that has nothing enjoyable beyond Mr. Satan and even his antics grow tiresome.
your rather reductive statement that "the worse the villains are, the worse the films are."
That's not reductive. It's inherently true all else being equal, the better the antagonist, the better the story. No amount of goofy interplay at the start of the film is not enough to overcome a god awful villain, especially given little more than garnish. Your insistence that everything else in 11 is fresh feels more than a tad hyperbolic. What's fresh about that movie? Goten and Trunks goofing around? Fine if you enjoy it, but it doesn't change things up. What about Broly in the third movie changes things up? Because he's covered in sludge?
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:07 pm

To me personally, in terms of the OG movie era i have never been particularly fond of movies 7,10 or 11. The latter two in particular because i felt them bringing Broly back twice in different forms was not executed very well, with him being injured and further deteriorated in the head in M10 and reduced to only furiously shouting "Kakarotto" over and over as he delusionally believes that Goten is Goku and nothing else as he's raging about. Bio-Broly has said character resurrected as a genetically engineered clone of the original who in turn becomes a walking slime monster whose (face palm) Achille's heel weakness is sea water. I did actually enjoy the scenes with Mr. Satan and No. 18 but otherwise it was fairly weak, while Second Coming was worse from the aforementioned degrading of Broly in mind to the near deux ex machine bit with Goku descending down from the Next World after being summoned via Shenron to help bail out his sons, which in turn feels like a cheap rehash of the final Kamehameha struggle between Gohan and Cell. Those especially the latter just took a character who was used well in his introduction movie and badly mangled him.

As far as the new era of movies go, i would say Resurrection/Revival of F is by far the weakest of the three because bringing Freeza back (compared to Coola who was similar in ways yet different enough to work in movies 5 and 6) just felt really cheap to me as it didn't bring a lot to the table overall compared to Battle of Gods or Super: Broly, in which case the former introduced Lord Beerus who expanded upon the previously established deity order beyond the Kaio and their superiors, as well as having a lot of great comedic and action packed moments that made it work as a film. Super: Broly took a previous movie character and put a completely new spin on him, in addition to a much different portrayal of the Saiyan's and their world's destruction by Freeza compared to what had been previously depicted in the Bardock special and elsewhere.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:35 pm

I think Movie 11 is my least favorite for how dull and unoriginal it is. I would have been okay if they did a new original bio villain than having Broli come back for the third time. Not to mention, his weakest was lame because it just came out of nowhere.
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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:50 pm

Alright, so, from what I’ve gathered from this thread, it seems like Movie 11 is in fact the “popular” choice for worst movie in the franchise. That’s not exactly surprising to me, but what I didn’t quite expect was for people to say that Movie 4 is the second most hated. I never cared for the movie myself, but I always assumed that people were mostly indifferent to it. I always assumed that Movie 7 and Movie 10 were more disliked.

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Re: Is there a general consensus on what the worst movie is?

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:59 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:50 pm
Alright, so, from what I’ve gathered from this thread, it seems like Movie 11 is in fact the “popular” choice for worst movie in the franchise. That’s not exactly surprising to me, but what I didn’t quite expect was for people to say that Movie 4 is the second most hated. I never cared for the movie myself, but I always assumed that people were mostly indifferent to it. I always assumed that Movie 7 and Movie 10 were more disliked.
Movie 7 at least has the Genki Dama/Z-Senshi routine at the end. Movie 10 has the old "Goku berates his sons from the afterlife" shtick with the triple Kamehameha on Brolli. Movie 4 has whistling. That and just lame half-assed plotting and characterization throughout. I find the FUNimation dub with the music inserted to be way more enjoyable. It's almost enough to make you forget how bad the original version is.

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