Advanced SSJ4 forms.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:09 pm

I think I kind of get the point of the original post now, but this question always sums up every time they get a stronger form.

Super Saiyan should be the ultimate Saiyan form, but we have about 10 different forms stronger than it and I don’t think it will stop.

But let’s say SS4 is the pinnacle of a Saiyan’s might when you think about the body. The soul, heart, mind or whatever spiritual stuff are probably the route Dragon Ball Super went for, which ironically clashes with how Dragon Ball GT tried to upgrade Goku.

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:18 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:09 pm
I think I kind of get the point of the original post now, but this question always sums up every time they get a stronger form.

Super Saiyan should be the ultimate Saiyan form, but we have about 10 different forms stronger than it and I don’t think it will stop.

But let’s say SS4 is the pinnacle of a Saiyan’s might when you think about the body. The soul, heart, mind or whatever spiritual stuff are probably the route Dragon Ball Super went for, which ironically clashes with how Dragon Ball GT tried to upgrade Goku.
Hmm interesting points.
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Grimlock » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:33 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:15 am
Super Full Power Saiyan 4 is actually a state above SSJ4. While SSJ4 brings your power to absolute limit, SFPS4 goes beyond that limit but it's only possible if you get additional power since your power can't be any higher on its own.
If there's anything other than Goku glowing red, then I'm missing something. And where does that name come from?
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:01 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:33 pm
If there's anything other than Goku glowing red, then I'm missing something. And where does that name come from?
The glowing red visual effect happened when Goku recovered his full stamina and basically went SS4 at 100%. What happens when Goku fought Syn Shenron is a SS4 beyond 100%.

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Grimlock » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:46 am

I'm sorry, what happens when Goku fought One-Star Dragon? Gosh, how long has been since I watched that series. :shock:

Edit: Is it that scene in which the image of an Oozaru appears? Just remembered this but I can't remember the whole context.
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:47 am

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:46 am
I'm sorry, what happens when Goku fought One-Star Dragon? Gosh, how long has been since I watched that series. :shock:

Edit: Is it that scene in which the image of an Oozaru appears? Just remembered this but I can't remember the whole context.
That’s it. Just like the first time he became SS4, but with a greater powerlevel.

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Grimlock » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:18 am

Found a video. And the name comes from the anime itself! Never watched Dragon Ball GT in Japanese so I never knew that. :o
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:44 am

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:18 am
Found a video. And the name comes from the anime itself! Never watched Dragon Ball GT in Japanese so I never knew that. :o
I'd suggest you to do so one day. English dub completely ruined this series, not only with awful music but it missed many important things and lacked explanations. One of the most notable and retarded things is how in English dub base Vegeta said that Hell Fighter 17's power is "pathetic" compared to his own (HF17 was said to be equal to OG 17 in dub) and then Super 17 was said to be twice as strong as regular 17, yet he trashed everyone. In original version Vegeta was shocked with his power and said that HF17 is equal to him in base form and that he "powered up beyond belief" thinking it's the original 17. No bullshit about Super 17 being only two times stronger. This changes everything and explains all the stupid comments about Super 17's power making no sense and that he shouldn't be stronger than Cell which would be true if what dub said was right. Hell Fighter 17 was actually stated to be stronger than Cell in japanese version.
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:54 pm

SS4 Gogeta seemed like a good opportunity to establish the form beyond SS4.
They had the design, which is fantastic; brown fur with red hair.
They had a good out of universe reason to differentiate his form from the ones before; he'd look too much like Goku, if he kept the red fur and black hair.
And the in-universe logic checked out too; Gotenks had SS3 in the Buu Arc, despite neither of his parts being capable of going beyond SS, so it follows that Goku and Vegeta merging together could also create a fighter with a higher form than they were capable of.

Of course they dropped the ball completely and didn't adress it in the show, so Gogeta was apparently just a SS4, which is a damn shame.

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Vijay » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:02 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:54 pm
SS4 Gogeta seemed like a good opportunity to establish the form beyond SS4.
They had the design, which is fantastic; brown fur with red hair.
They had a good out of universe reason to differentiate his form from the ones before; he'd look too much like Goku, if he kept the red fur and black hair.
And the in-universe logic checked out too; Gotenks had SS3 in the Buu Arc, despite neither of his parts being capable of going beyond SS, so it follows that Goku and Vegeta merging together could also create a fighter with a higher form than they were capable of.

Of course they dropped the ball completely and didn't adress it in the show, so Gogeta was apparently just a SS4, which is a damn shame.
While I liked the idea of creating Fused SSJ4, supposedly omnipotent being...the design was...didn't work for me. If anything, SSJ4 Gogeta felt cartoony when compared to primal forms of SSJ4 Goku or even Vegeta. The brown fur (as unrealistic as it seems took SSJ4 red fur into different league & vest...) Plus the way how dude simply bragged & dragged the fight till last 5-6 minutes....giving pathetic excuse of neutralizing Minus Energy...whatnot😏🤭 If I were him, I'd blast Omega Shenron away & call it a day & go back to Mt. Paozu🤣🤣🤣

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:09 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:54 pm
SS4 Gogeta seemed like a good opportunity to establish the form beyond SS4.
They had the design, which is fantastic; brown fur with red hair.
They had a good out of universe reason to differentiate his form from the ones before; he'd look too much like Goku, if he kept the red fur and black hair.
And the in-universe logic checked out too; Gotenks had SS3 in the Buu Arc, despite neither of his parts being capable of going beyond SS, so it follows that Goku and Vegeta merging together could also create a fighter with a higher form than they were capable of.

Of course they dropped the ball completely and didn't adress it in the show, so Gogeta was apparently just a SS4, which is a damn shame.
That could've been a good idea if Vegeta got SSJ4 earlier, but him getting it for last fight was cooler.
Also, isn't SSJ4 the only time we actually saw Vegeta reaching new form on screen? He got SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ God and SSJ Blue off-screen and he already could turn into Oozaru when he appeared on Earth. There is that shameful SSJB Evolution thing but it was more like enhanced state of SSJB.
Vijay wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:02 pm
If I were him, I'd blast Omega Shenron away & call it a day & go back to Mt. Paozu🤣🤣🤣
And leave Earth separated from the rest of universe for eternity? The only good side of this is that no threat out of Earth would ever appear again. I only wonder if people dying during Shadow Dragons arc would make their souls actually go to otherworld.
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Vijay » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:14 pm

Old Kai said all it takes is simply defeat all 7 Shadow dragons before Earth is consumed by their minus Energy nah?

Omega was ripe with DB's of past 6 evil Shadow dragons. If SSJ4 Gogeta blasts away Omega with some kinda amped Finisher, in other words...defeating the boss Shadow dragon ..that should revert Earth to it's normal state right?

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:45 am

Vijay wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:14 pm
Old Kai said all it takes is simply defeat all 7 Shadow dragons before Earth is consumed by their minus Energy nah?

Omega was ripe with DB's of past 6 evil Shadow dragons. If SSJ4 Gogeta blasts away Omega with some kinda amped Finisher, in other words...defeating the boss Shadow dragon ..that should revert Earth to it's normal state right?
I don't think so. Those two are different things. Before being killed by spirit bomb, Omega was releasing a lot more of negative energy which almost killed entire planet, but it didn't bring back the shadow that was covering Earth seperating it from the rest of universe. Also even if it was enough, if Gogeta focused on killing Omega completely ignoring the shadow and he somehow survived, they'd be doomed as Goku wouldn't be able to use spirit bomb against him. Gogeta might've wanted an insurance in case he didn't manage to kill Omega.
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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Vijay » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:32 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:45 am
Vijay wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:14 pm
Old Kai said all it takes is simply defeat all 7 Shadow dragons before Earth is consumed by their minus Energy nah?

Omega was ripe with DB's of past 6 evil Shadow dragons. If SSJ4 Gogeta blasts away Omega with some kinda amped Finisher, in other words...defeating the boss Shadow dragon ..that should revert Earth to it's normal state right?
I don't think so. Those two are different things. Before being killed by spirit bomb, Omega was releasing a lot more of negative energy which almost killed entire planet, but it didn't bring back the shadow that was covering Earth seperating it from the rest of universe. Also even if it was enough, if Gogeta focused on killing Omega completely ignoring the shadow and he somehow survived, they'd be doomed as Goku wouldn't be able to use spirit bomb against him. Gogeta might've wanted an insurance in case he didn't manage to kill Omega.
What are you talkin abt? Killin source of minus energy, Omega should return DB's back & woila.

Source of minus energy gone, evil Shadow surrounding the earth should be gone as well nah?

Why would you need Spirit Bomb when SSJ4 Gogeta could vaporize Omega? The way ur saying makes it seem as if Goku all along had plans to destroy Omega the whole time....even when dude got his ass whopped as SSJ4, unable to finish off Omega as SSJ4 Gogeta...🤣🤣🤣

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Re: Advanced SSJ4 forms.

Post by Grimlock » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:17 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:44 am
I'd suggest you to do so one day. English dub completely ruined this series, not only with awful music but it missed many important things and lacked explanations. One of the most notable and retarded things is how in English dub base Vegeta said that Hell Fighter 17's power is "pathetic" compared to his own (HF17 was said to be equal to OG 17 in dub) and then Super 17 was said to be twice as strong as regular 17, yet he trashed everyone. In original version Vegeta was shocked with his power and said that HF17 is equal to him in base form and that he "powered up beyond belief" thinking it's the original 17. No bullshit about Super 17 being only two times stronger. This changes everything and explains all the stupid comments about Super 17's power making no sense and that he shouldn't be stronger than Cell which would be true if what dub said was right. Hell Fighter 17 was actually stated to be stronger than Cell in japanese version.
I actually never watched it in English too, I'm not an American. :P Terms like "Super Full Power Saiyan 4" is hard to translate into my language, which is why I missed it. But I'm aware of the "17 was originally supposed to be stronger/"leader" of tne Androids instead of Cell", that one was seen/kept in my dub.

I'll give the Japanese a try one of these days, though.
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