I believe Super Saiyan 4 started a trend of over-designed, fan-fictiony forms

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Nokra
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I believe Super Saiyan 4 started a trend of over-designed, fan-fictiony forms

Post by Nokra » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:01 am

Seems like ss4 started the ridiculous over the top fan fiction designs that an edgy american kid would've come up with. Just look at ss5 made by an edgy dbz fan who was probably a teen inspired directly by ss4 over the top design. Look at any form that people make with mods in db games like xenoverse 2 or budokai series. They all look ridiculous and over the top thanks to ss4 which looks nothing like what toriyama would ever create. Even if you hate it (I like it) ssg/ssgss is more in line with what toriyama would design as they are simple and straight to the point. Ss4 is an edgy teens fan fiction wet dream. Nuff said :clap:

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Vijay » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:38 am

Gotta agree...heck, Bulma even once told Veggie in Shadow Dragons Arc that he could surpass SSJ4....And Veggie claimed be doesn't mind Goku attaining Super Saiyan 4 or 5....he'd be leader of Saiyan pack once again...

Dat plus AF taking this idea to ridiculous heights....led to our fancy hairdye forms in Supa🤣🤣🤣

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:45 am

I disagree, I think SS4 is pretty well balanced design wise. Baby Vegeta on the other hand :roll: or maybe all the mecha tsufurians in general. I also like the SS5 design, I mean it's pretty reminiscent of the GoD/Angel clothes of today

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:02 am

I partly agree

SSJ
the super saiyan is simple
It only has 1 or 2 colors
body size may vary but is usually medium

SSJ4
too much hair ...
too bulky
too many colors
It has a tail
changing clothes with more colors etc

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by KBABZ » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am

Normally I'd agree but c'mon, we had Super Saiyan 3 first! That started the trend of a noticeably radical design difference from the previously expressed forms, what with the long hair and pronounced brows. SS4 I agree is a more involved design, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Vijay » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am
Normally I'd agree but c'mon, we had Super Saiyan 3 first! That started the trend of a noticeably radical design difference from the previously expressed forms, what with the long hair and pronounced brows. SS4 I agree is a more involved design, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.
What's d great in-universe explanation did SSJ4 had to justify it's existence 🤣🤣🤣

More like TOEI's cheap attempt to cash-in on nother SSJ form to raise their merchandise sales. Dats it

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:09 am

Vijay wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 am

What's d great in-universe explanation did SSJ4 had to justify it's existence 🤣🤣🤣

More like TOEI's cheap attempt to cash-in on nother SSJ form to raise their merchandise sales. Dats it
Saiyan tail stuff, Oozaru power stuff being source of their 'true' power. It is a great explanation

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by KBABZ » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:21 am

Vijay wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:04 am
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am
Normally I'd agree but c'mon, we had Super Saiyan 3 first! That started the trend of a noticeably radical design difference from the previously expressed forms, what with the long hair and pronounced brows. SS4 I agree is a more involved design, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.
What's d great in-universe explanation did SSJ4 had to justify it's existence 🤣🤣🤣

More like TOEI's cheap attempt to cash-in on nother SSJ form to raise their merchandise sales. Dats it
Yeah what mute_proxy said. Super Saiyan 4 is a great relevancy upgrade for the Oozaru form which had gone completely unused for half a decade before that point; the design (while not the best in the world I admit) reflects its own backstory.

And again, Toriyama kinda set a precedent for it by introducing Super Saiyan 3, which for the entirety of the Buu saga is shown to be totally frivolous and impractical; it's only really there to look cool.

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:38 am

The fanmade SSJ5 designs do basically look like 'SSJ4, but more so', but can you really blame the artists who created them for just continuing the pattern?
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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:12 am

SS4 is also considered to be the biggest redeeming quality for GT. Personally I think it looks awesome, particularly on Goku. Those fan fiction forms like SS5 do take it too far, but SS4 as is looks really cool and unique. As long as those fan fiction forms remain just that, then the trend doesn't bother me.

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by omegacwa » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:09 am

SSJ4 and its origin all work for me. I don't mind the design either. The part that I think is stupid is the clothes changing, and Goku suddenly becoming an adult again.

Personally I like it better than SSJ3, which looks bad (just my opinion), and was shown in the series to be worthless. People give Blue Evolution shit but at least its look was logical and was immediately used to defeat arguably the second strongest being in all the universes (at that point, not counting gods or angels).

I think it should have just gone SSJ2 (which is basically just perfected SSJ) to SSJ4, which should have been called something else. Like True Form or something.

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:10 am

omegacwa wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:09 am
SSJ4 and its origin all work for me. I don't mind the design either. The part that I think is stupid is the clothes changing, and Goku suddenly becoming an adult again.

Personally I like it better than SSJ3, which looks bad (just my opinion), and was shown in the series to be worthless. People give Blue Evolution shit but at least its look was logical and was immediately used to defeat arguably the second strongest being in all the universes (at that point, not counting gods or angels).

I think it should have just gone SSJ2 (which is basically just perfected SSJ) to SSJ4, which should have been called something else. Like True Form or something.
I would personally erase every SSJ transformation except for SSJ, SSJ God and SSJ4 (under different name)

SSJ2 was lazy SSJ upgrade that is completely forgotten by staff and was never memorable except for one fight in Cell saga
SSJ3 is useless and completely random form. It looks pretty cool but doesn't make sense.
SSJB is garbage
SSJBE is garbage with sparkles
SSJ Rose is garbage recolor of garbage form
SSJ Rage is completely out-of-ass joke

I don't count UI as a transformation, but series made it look like just a form so, well...it's garbage.
If UI was what it meant to be then i'd be fine with its existence. Just keep the UI Omen look, not that ugly white haired one.
I didn't count Vegeta-Baby sinces it's a mutation and i don't count any dumb USSJ sh*t that was introduced in Cell saga.

Also topic-wise:

Well designed > simple designed > overdesigned >>>>>> lazy designed (god forms)
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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:34 am

I fully agree with you, OP. I personally much prefer the godly forms of Super. I have always been of the idea that there is beauty in simplicity, so I very much prefer a sparkly and good-looking hair recolor over some weird saiyan-ape hybric with random clothes.

In fact, I don't see those forms as lazy recolors at all -- or rather, I don't let that fact influence my judgement, and I simply accept that this is what the writers were going for. They are divine forms, they are supposed to look regal and elegant. If they involved fur, tails, and no eyebrows, then they wouldn't be regal and elegant at all, they would look too savage and primitive.

For reference, this is Super Saiyan Rosé Black:
Is this form as creative/original as Super Saiyan 4? No. It is, after all, "just" a recolor of his hair. Does this make it bad? For me, absolutely not. Because, again, some people like myself simply prefer a cleaner and down-to-earth look. I don't need 100 different details (fur, tail, new clothes, different hair, red eyeliners, etc.) to find a transformation good-looking.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Grimlock » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:50 am

After Super Saiyan 2, they all have problems. Be either a recolor or a drastic change in the appearance (I have to say that Xeno Goku as Super Saiyan 4 is cool, though. His clothes don't magically change and the form goes pretty well along with the clothes. A much better design overall than the GT outfit Xeno Goku used to wear).

Less is and forever will be more, no doubt about that. But just like everything else, it has to have a limit, but Super Saiyan God crossed the line. I mean, it would be way better if it had Ultra Instinct hair's design instead. Tweaking just a bit the base form hair would be enough.

Then again, I'd get rid of all transformations after Super Saiyan 2. There was really no need for this amount of random forms just for the Saiyans.
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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:09 pm

I know this is bait, but this post is ironic funny because the majority of the "Fan designs" from the early 2000s on deviant art and the like were literally just badly done color swaps of SS1-4. (Sound familar? But it's okay because Toriyama/toe made them.)

Super Saiyan 4 isnt "edgy," whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. Just because it's not a recolor and they did something different it's not "something a teen would make."

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:20 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:09 am
Saiyan tail stuff, Oozaru power stuff being source of their 'true' power. It is a great explanation
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am
, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.
the ozaru was golden ... not pink/red with black fur

never really explained just as the SSJ3 too came out of nowhere

the SSJ3 at least follows the evolutionary line ...

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:20 pm
mute_proxy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:09 am
Saiyan tail stuff, Oozaru power stuff being source of their 'true' power. It is a great explanation
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am
, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.
the ozaru was golden ... not pink/red with black fur

never really explained just as the SSJ3 too came out of nowhere

the SSJ3 at least follows the evolutionary line ...
Oozaru went SS, and after regaining it's senses turned SS4

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:12 pm

A reminder that the original SSJ5 design was made by a spanish fellow, and it was not Goku but a Saiyan named Tablos.

But now one can say that the SSJ5 is basically the Super Saiyan 4 on Ultra Instinct. :P
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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:37 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:20 pm
mute_proxy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:09 am
Saiyan tail stuff, Oozaru power stuff being source of their 'true' power. It is a great explanation
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 am
, but for me it gets a pass because there's a great in-universe justification for it.
the ozaru was golden ... not pink/red with black fur

never really explained just as the SSJ3 too came out of nowhere

the SSJ3 at least follows the evolutionary line ...
Oozaru went SS, and after regaining it's senses turned SS4
It is not that this has really been explained, rather it seems that it was devised as the story progressed.
They first believed that simply growing goku's tail was enough to defeat baby after goku became an ozaru using Blutz Waves from the earth and not from the moon they gave that explanation but ...

- Goku did not go through training to control the transformation
- The transformation has no origin or legend to explain its method and why the relation with the ozaru and difference
- Why was it never used against buu?

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Re: ss4 started trend of overdesigned fan fictiony forms

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:02 pm

The word “edgy” seems to get used a lot to describe things that people don’t like. I wouldn’t describe SSJ4 as “edgy”, but I will agree that it’s probably not something Toriyama would’ve ever come up with. Still, I think SSJ3 is just as much at fault in leading to this once popular trend of overly designed fan made forms. SSJ4 at least has an interesting concept behind it.

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