All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:55 pm

Definitely. While I do have my criticisms, they're mostly directed at the execution rather than concept and story. All in all, the positive far outweights the negative.

I'm even happy that Evolution happened, since it was the catalyst for Toriyama's return.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:23 pm

Yeah, even if there are problems with Super and my hatred of Minus, I'm satisfied.
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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by ABED » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:25 pm

I doubt your ability to properly interpret ratings. And fanart proves nothing. All the big villains have plenty of fanart. There's also recency bias, so of course there won't be that many theories about Cell or Buu. They're dead and gone. I don't know what key words I'm supposed to google because I'm not seeing Zamasu show up that much.
I didn't say he's the best character objectively (because there is none, it's all subjective)
Not what I meant, but okay. He's your favorite I assume because you think he's the best.

As for the point about Evolution leading to Super - ugh, now I dislike that movie even more.
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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Ryuji-Otogi » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:27 pm

Xenoverse is awesome. I didn’t know there were diehard DBZ fans who disliked it. I think this forum is a collection of old schoolers who just aren’t predisposed to liking new stuff. “Remember the good ol days” and whatnot. The new stuff has been a ton of fun and I’m glad we got it.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:27 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:25 pm
As for the point about Evolution leading to Super - ugh, now I dislike that movie even more.
I feel the exact same. :lol:

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:29 pm

Ryuji-Otogi wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:27 pm
Xenoverse is awesome. I didn’t know there were diehard DBZ fans who disliked it. I think this forum is a collection of old schoolers who just aren’t predisposed to liking new stuff. “Remember the good ol days” and whatnot. The new stuff has been a ton of fun and I’m glad we got it.
As someone who put way too much time into Xenoverse 1 and 2, it’s not because it’s “new.” I don’t like it because the models are ugly, customizations are still limited, it paints itself as a new story but is really just Z with “fight (enemy) with purple aura” for the most part. Most of all the fighting is broken and the way stamina is handled is horrible.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Skar » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:18 pm

I did enjoy some parts but overall I didn't feel it was necessary and would've preferred if the series was left alone. I wouldn't mind if it was rendered as an alternate universe or its ending retconned it all from happening. Trunks' original timeline was wiped out of existence so who knows maybe the present gets destroyed and they revert it back to pre-BoG :D.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:37 pm

Ryuji-Otogi wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:27 pm
Xenoverse is awesome. I didn’t know there were diehard DBZ fans who disliked it. I think this forum is a collection of old schoolers who just aren’t predisposed to liking new stuff. “Remember the good ol days” and whatnot. The new stuff has been a ton of fun and I’m glad we got it.
You missed the part where people gave FighterZ heavy praise. Xenoverse is a shallow, poor-looking game that thinks a giant character roster with the same moves (similar to BT3) and a recycled story mode counts as "content". There's a very good reason why FighterZ made a lot of gaming outlets stand up and take notice.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:50 pm

I guess I should clarify - when I say that Xenoverse is more creative than previous games, it goes without saying (though I should have actually said it I suppose) that it has yet to take full advantage of that creativity. Still, by doing even a slight twist on the story that we've played a million times before, it was still way and above what the previous games we'd been getting were bringing to the table.

Also, for whatever it's worth - yes, I still prefer Xenoverse (at least 2) over the likes of FighterZ. I'm not going to argue with anyone over their preferences, especially as even I would agree that, as a fighting game, FighterZ is way better crafted than Xenoverse. At the end of the day though, even as repetitive as Xenoverse's story modes can be, they're still preferable to FighterZ's story. And being much more of a solo gamer than an online one, I just get way more out of Xenoverse than I do FighterZ, even if I'm alone in that regard.

That and FighterZ has basically brought out a pretty telling sentiment in some fans where that's the only game they want, but that's an entirely different discussion.
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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:56 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:50 pm
even as repetitive as Xenoverse's story modes can be, they're still preferable to FighterZ's story.
Oh FighterZ's story mode SUUUUUUUUUCKS. It's seriously held back by constant grey clone fighting. Personally I felt it was best when it was exploring Android 21's character(s), as well as her interactions with the rest of the cast. It just sucks you have to sit through 15 hours of the same repetitive fights to get to that.

But in terms of presentation, love and care, there's really no comparison between the two.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:02 am

To answer the thread topic, I'm the type of person that likes finality, closure, and a book end on my favorite things from the past. I want to be able to point at a shelf and go, "There it is." With the series' ongoing status, I can't do that; my shelf just grows and grows. And while it's no longer just my nostalgia (how could I be nostalgic for something that's just coming out now?), I still feel that it's all attached.

It's a me problem, really. I don't have separation. To me, there is no separating the old series and the new content -- it's either all or nothing. So, on that front, I'm not happy that the revival happened. I also felt like Toei didn't stick to its guns when they've tried to present GT as the true successor to Z for so long, only to turn around and kick it to the side in favor of Super. It's kind of the same as how I felt when Funimation went from touting how great the Z dub was to doing a 180 when Kai came out, going so far as to make fun of the old dub. Like, hey, I know it wasn't good, but you sold it as "good" to many, many people and now you're going back on it? That just never sat well with me.

Anyway, from the standpoint of finality, I despise that the series is on-going. However, when I sit down and watch or read it, it's actually pretty fun. I don't get into power theories and don't micro-analyze the story, so for me, it's pretty fun. There are some things that I don't like here or there (like Trunks and Mai or Freeza's interactions with Goku after what it was in Z), but I just kind of shut my brain off to that and enjoy.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:36 am

I wouldn't be interested in the series at all if there wasn't new material to keep me hooked, so yeah I'm down with it. I didn't care for Dragon Ball back when I was a kid (it was third place after Digimon and Pokemon in the holy Cheez TV trinity), and I only really took an interest when I started watching the Abridged series. Obviously that wouldn't have lasted on its own since those guys took a year off to find themselves or whatever, but by then I had Kai, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Super to give me official products to follow.

Plus, you know, it's not like the franchise was lying respectfully dormant during the years between GT and BoG. It's a franchise, wanting it to "end" is like wanting them to stop making Batman comics. The only difference between now and the old days is it used to be crap video games, Heroes shit and the occasional promotional OVA or anime/manga re-release ticking things over. Now it's good video games, movies by Toriyama and a TV/manga series with actual stories. That suits me down to the ground.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by ABED » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:36 am
I wouldn't be interested in the series at all if there wasn't new material to keep me hooked, so yeah I'm down with it. I didn't care for Dragon Ball back when I was a kid (it was third place after Digimon and Pokemon in the holy Cheez TV trinity), and I only really took an interest when I started watching the Abridged series. Obviously that wouldn't have lasted on its own since those guys took a year off to find themselves or whatever, but by then I had Kai, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Super to give me official products to follow.

Plus, you know, it's not like the franchise was lying respectfully dormant during the years between GT and BoG. It's a franchise, wanting it to "end" is like wanting them to stop making Batman comics. The only difference between now and the old days is it used to be crap video games, Heroes shit and the occasional promotional OVA or anime/manga re-release ticking things over. Now it's good video games, movies by Toriyama and a TV/manga series with actual stories. That suits me down to the ground.
American superhero comics aren't the same. They aren't written by a single person and have a singular voice. There's little continuity and the characters remain largely static. DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.

And why, oh why would abridged be the thing that hooked you into the series?
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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by mute_proxy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am
American superhero comics aren't the same. They aren't written by a single person and have a singular voice. There's little continuity and the characters remain largely static. DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.

And why, oh why would abridged be the thing that hooked you into the series?
That doesn't argue anything he said. It is a franchise, now more than ever, with dozens of people involved, not just "written and drawn by one man". If there's money to be made, a franchise won't die. Regardless american superhero comics or japanese manga.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:57 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am
Kataphrut wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:36 am
I wouldn't be interested in the series at all if there wasn't new material to keep me hooked, so yeah I'm down with it. I didn't care for Dragon Ball back when I was a kid (it was third place after Digimon and Pokemon in the holy Cheez TV trinity), and I only really took an interest when I started watching the Abridged series. Obviously that wouldn't have lasted on its own since those guys took a year off to find themselves or whatever, but by then I had Kai, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Super to give me official products to follow.

Plus, you know, it's not like the franchise was lying respectfully dormant during the years between GT and BoG. It's a franchise, wanting it to "end" is like wanting them to stop making Batman comics. The only difference between now and the old days is it used to be crap video games, Heroes shit and the occasional promotional OVA or anime/manga re-release ticking things over. Now it's good video games, movies by Toriyama and a TV/manga series with actual stories. That suits me down to the ground.
American superhero comics aren't the same. They aren't written by a single person and have a singular voice. There's little continuity and the characters remain largely static. DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.

And why, oh why would abridged be the thing that hooked you into the series?
Neither is Dragon Ball. The manga was, but there was an anime with multiple writers, movies with original stories, TV specials and filler arcs. There was a whole sequel series that he didn't write. Toriyama is obviously the creator and the main man, but the series doesn't hinge solely on him. The same goes for 99% of "auteur media".

And Abridged got me into it because it was funny. And free- I was a teenager at the time. Incidentally, most of the idiots who claim DBZA is the best way to watch it? That's why, that's all there is to it. They can watch it for free on Youtube instead of shelling out for expensive DVDs.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:02 am

Just to add to the "superhero stories are different," I want to point out that once upon a time they didn't have different writers and visions. To take a superhero from his/her origin to now, where there could be three simultaneous different iterations of the same characters, there must have been a strange period where the known, linear story went through a radical change when someone else got a hold of it.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by ABED » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:11 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 am
ABED wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am
American superhero comics aren't the same. They aren't written by a single person and have a singular voice. There's little continuity and the characters remain largely static. DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.

And why, oh why would abridged be the thing that hooked you into the series?
That doesn't argue anything he said. It is a franchise, now more than ever, with dozens of people involved, not just "written and drawn by one man". If there's money to be made, a franchise won't die. Regardless american superhero comics or japanese manga.
I understand the concept of a franchise, but it doesn't change the facts of what I wrote. DB was structured differently. It was meant to have a beginning, middle, and eventual end. Superhero comics never were, traditionally. The everlasting gobstopper approach to DB was forced upon it. I don't like seeing that because stories need closure. DB let its characters grow up and change in part because it wasn't intended to last forever. Had it, Toriyama would've kept the characters in stasis.
Neither is Dragon Ball. The manga was, but there was an anime with multiple writers, movies with original stories, TV specials and filler arcs. There was a whole sequel series that he didn't write. Toriyama is obviously the creator and the main man, but the series doesn't hinge solely on him. The same goes for 99% of "auteur media".

And Abridged got me into it because it was funny. And free- I was a teenager at the time. Incidentally, most of the idiots who claim DBZA is the best way to watch it? That's why, that's all there is to it. They can watch it for free on Youtube instead of shelling out for expensive DVDs.
You're splitting hairs. The multiple writers are a requirement of TV, but the crux of the story was all from a singular voice. Everything else was orbiting around it. Filler existed so the adaptation didn't get ahead of what they were adapting. GT did try to continue it and it's not a good continuation, so not the best argument. The series does hinge on him. It's his voice, it's his story. It's like someone continuing Lord of the Rings after Tolkien died.

Setting aside Abridged's quality, much of its humor is aimed at people who know the series. DBZA is not the best way to watch DB because it's not DB. It's a parody series.
I want to point out that once upon a time they didn't have different writers and visions.
They were always going to. Superheroes were a genre, not medium. Before superheroes became synonymous with comic books, different genres became popular at different times and went through several writers all trying to keep it fresh until whatever genre became trendy. Superhero stories just took the same approach because that's what comic book writers and artists knew. They had no idea the genre would become what it became.
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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:33 am

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:07 pm
The general consensus from every other part of the Internet seems to be that stuff like Super is great and that there’s no better time to be a Dragon Ball fan. With that said, I can’t quite get as good a handle on this website’s overall stance on the post-revival era of Dragon Ball. Do people generally like it, do they hate it, are they indifferent to it, or what?
Well, can't speak for everyone, so I'll just state what I think: I am partially satisfied with this revival. Part of me like it, and then there's another part that dislike it.

The part of me that dislike it is towards the series (Dragon Ball Super) along with Movie 15, Dragon Ball Minus and the last 75 minutes of Dragon Ball Super Broly. One would expect that these productions, being made in modern times, would actually bring some worthwhile content. A fresh take on some other subjects/themes, not necessarily having a complex plot, but not something as shallow and no depth at all like a tournament, where lies only mindless fights and a predictable ending.

My disappointment is due to the high levels of "hype" I got when Movie 15 was announced, but then reality hit me hard when Freeza was revealed to be back, I knew at that very moment we wouldn't get something interesting (and boy was I right). Then, I allowed myself to get very hyped when Dragon Ball Super was announced, thought they would explore other stuff but... They decided to retell what didn't need to be retold, and right after that... a tournament. By that point I was worn out. It got to the point of purposely skipping episodes and was like that until the end of the series. I had lost interest in a series that was once my favorite. Oh, sure, there was a Future Trunks saga somewhere in there, I'd just take it with no second thoughts if that's what they can come up with in terms of some actual story and conflict, despite the saga wasting a lot of opportunities.

I don't "hate" it, though. The keyword, like I said above, is "disappointment". I had high expectations, but the final product didn't deliver half of it. I just want this series to be better and I trust it can be. I know whoever is in charge can produce something better than just retellings and tournaments. And like I'm always saying, they need to leave the safe zone already, getting stuck with the same concepts is extremely old by now.

The part of the that likes it is towards the video-games. Weird, isn't? To be at a point where games are doing better than the "main" product in terms of content. And hell, what a revival coming from them! (it's like the opposite now that I think about it: the series were better before and now... Not so much. Conversely, the games sucked hard and now they are the best thing we have today. Booyah?) Remember the old days? When the video-games were nothing more than crap retellings of Dragon Ball Z? There were nothing new. It was always the same thing under just different graphics and combat, holy mother of Dende. Dark ages, boring time.
But thank Dende it all changed in 2015 for us in the West. A certain company finally decided to bring new content for the majority of the "fanbase", even though it was actually based on the "One Above All" of the Dragon Ball games, but since it was never released in other countries, not everyone was able to play it. This company even inspired another one to come up with a game that also featured a new story and a new character. Hopefully this trend continues, because then at least there will be somewhere to go in terms of new stuff, something to save the franchise from boredom.

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:13 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am
DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.
No love for Toriyama's inkers and editors I see!

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Re: All in all, are you happy the revival happened?

Post by ABED » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:07 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:13 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:45 am
DB is a single story written and drawn by one man.
No love for Toriyama's inkers and editors I see!
I get what you're talking about, and they are important parts of the process, but you're splitting hairs. They are all working to get the best out of Toriyama and HIS story.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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