Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

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Nineteen
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Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Nineteen » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:35 am

I understand that Toei had to play catch-up with the manga, so I'm not really asking why there was a filler arc between the end of the battle on Namek and the arrival of Mecha-Frieza.

But why a Garlic Jr. saga specifically? It seems almost random. I'm not complaining; I actually like the character, and I think some of the content revolving around Kami is interesting. But it seems an odd choice to center an entire arc around.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:45 am

You wanted it in the MIDDLE OF THE ANDROID ARC? Its the least busy point in the story and thus the most natural for it.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Nineteen » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:52 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:45 am
You wanted it in the MIDDLE OF THE ANDROID ARC? Its the least busy point in the story and thus the most natural for it.
No, I get why it's placed where it is. What I don't get is why Toei brought Garlic Jr. back for the arc, rather than inventing a new character.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:54 am

Nineteen wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:35 am
I understand that Toei had to play catch-up with the manga, so I'm not really asking why there was a filler arc between the end of the battle on Namek and the arrival of Mecha-Frieza.

But why a Garlic Jr. saga specifically? It seems almost random. I'm not complaining; I actually like the character, and I think some of the content revolving around Kami is interesting. But it seems an odd choice to center an entire arc around.
I would assume that it was a bit of an experiment in tying a movie to the main series. They had just done something similar with the Bardock special, and would do so again at the end of the Cell Arc, so it doesn't seem too out of place. Movie 1 also had less closure when it came to the fate of the antagonist than the other movies up to that point, so that would explain why they didn't bring out Tullece, Uiro, or Slug.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:03 am

Perhaps the staff did not want to waste any time developing something entirely new and instead went back to what was already done. Garlic Junior was a movie villain who was still alive unlike the rest, and had ties to Gohan which was important because of Goku's absence. Maybe there were some unused ideas from the movie that went into the filler arc? Like the whole Mazoku/Planet Makyo bits?

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:09 am

Thank god Takao Koyama never did a BROLY filler.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Vijay » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:25 am

Garlic Jr Arc: exists

Kanzenshuu user: Why does Garlic Jr Arc exist?

It's hilarious when you come across such posts. I personally feel it's an alright Arc.

After plagued with SSJ-syndrome over 20 episodes at Frieza Arc, it was a refreshing & very much needed break without Goku or SSJ coming into the scene

Watching Kid Gohan, Krillin & Piccolo fighting off Garlic & his minions were nice. Plus watchin Kami, Mr. Popo & our fellow Z fighters being implicated with Earth being the landscape was refreshing change.

To top it off, teasin Veggie into outer-space searching for SSJ Goku while eradicatin remaining Frieza armies were superb.

In short, I think the Garlic Jr Arc was much needed break after Frieza Arc's SSJ syndrome before transitioning into next major Android Arc. Served it's purpose plus Maroon was 🔥

Kinda like Otherworld Tourney & Great Saiyaman Arcs.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:34 am

Garlic Jr. is a logical choice for a few reasons.
  1. As stated before, he's a movie villain and thus is an already-designed character with an established personality and a known backstory with the heroes, in particular Gohan.
  2. He's also THE FIRST (Z) movie villain, so he gets a bit of First Installment Wins factor about him for being The OG.
  3. Unlike villains such as Tullece, he isn't absurdly powerful, and thus from a logistics standpoint is still a believable villain without having to cross into the "well they need Goku and Vegeta for this" threshold.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:07 pm

This was my favorite filler, because it actually made sense for Gohan to 'shine' for the first time right before the Android / Cell saga. Although references to Gohan being pretty strong were made earlier in the Saiyan and Freeza sagas, this still wouldn't indicate his true potential as a protagonist. Gohan effectively beating the big boss of this arc, made him grow as a fighter. It made his surpassing of Goku in the Cell saga more believable at the end.

Another filler arc like Other World Tournament saga produced some entertaining fights, but it doesn't necessarily fit in the global story. In the contrary, Gokus over use while being dead made the first part of the Great Saiyaman arc feel less "real" in the sense of Gohan having truely lost his father.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:24 pm

Now that I think about it, THIS should've been Gohan's end point after the Cell arc. Instead of relying on Goku, Gohan finally is able to stand on his own two feet.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:24 pm
Now that I think about it, THIS should've been Gohan's end point after the Cell arc. Instead of relying on Goku, Gohan finally is able to stand on his own two feet.
Makes me wonder how different the story would have been had it been the first conflict after Cell! Might be a tough sell since Gohan can go SS2 at that point.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:35 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:24 pm
Now that I think about it, THIS should've been Gohan's end point after the Cell arc. Instead of relying on Goku, Gohan finally is able to stand on his own two feet.
Makes me wonder how different the story would have been had it been the first conflict after Cell! Might be a tough sell since Gohan can go SS2 at that point.
I think people get caught up way too much in the plot mechanics and "logic" rather than the characters and their arcs. Garlic Jr. is already vastly stronger than we first met him because he's closer to a planet. Piccolo is also way stronger after having fused with Nail. Having the Makyo Star make Garlic Jr. a threat to SSJ2 makes as much sense as almost any other power up. Say that little bit of exposition then move on to what really matters - Gohan reaching maturity, although that would've been way more satisfying had the series not pretended he hadn't already reached maturity.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:46 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:35 pm
I think people get caught up way too much in the plot mechanics and "logic" rather than the characters and their arcs. Garlic Jr. is already vastly stronger than we first met him because he's closer to a planet. Piccolo is also way stronger after having fused with Nail. Having the Makyo Star make Garlic Jr. a threat to SSJ2 makes as much sense as almost any other power up. Say that little bit of exposition then move on to what really matters - Gohan reaching maturity, although that would've been way more satisfying had the series not pretended he hadn't already reached maturity.
I mean I do agree, but sometimes it can be hard to come up with a reason, quick as it only needs to be, to justify why a character is a challenge. Daimao was a demon, Raditz was a warrior alien, Cell was an amalgam of all the heroes, Buu was sealed-away insane magic, Beerus' entire job is to destroy planets, etc. The Makyo Star would be a good reasoning though: maybe Garlic Jr. found a way to absorb the star's power so he didn't need to be near it in order to be a threat to everybody.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Captain Awesome » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:15 pm

I'm slowly working my way through the series and I'm actually a few episodes into the Garlic Jr. arc.

It's odd that they brought Garlic Jr. back of all people but what is even stranger is that they tried to tie it into the Demon clan stuff with Piccolo and a Demon planet and it all feels so weirdly cobbled together.

Anyway I think it would have made far more sense to bring Tullece back as a villain - I think a bait and switch with his doppelganger would have been more fun.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:25 pm

Garlic Jr. and his gang at least did use some "tactics" and weren't just mindless powerhouses.
I could somehow appreciate this content, knowing it's filler, because of the Piccolo-Gohan-Krillin team-up, Gohans rising and some more focuss on intresting side characters like Kami and Popo.
Last edited by Mister_Popo on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:28 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:46 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:35 pm
I think people get caught up way too much in the plot mechanics and "logic" rather than the characters and their arcs. Garlic Jr. is already vastly stronger than we first met him because he's closer to a planet. Piccolo is also way stronger after having fused with Nail. Having the Makyo Star make Garlic Jr. a threat to SSJ2 makes as much sense as almost any other power up. Say that little bit of exposition then move on to what really matters - Gohan reaching maturity, although that would've been way more satisfying had the series not pretended he hadn't already reached maturity.
I mean I do agree, but sometimes it can be hard to come up with a reason, quick as it only needs to be, to justify why a character is a challenge. Daimao was a demon, Raditz was a warrior alien, Cell was an amalgam of all the heroes, Buu was sealed-away insane magic, Beerus' entire job is to destroy planets, etc. The Makyo Star would be a good reasoning though: maybe Garlic Jr. found a way to absorb the star's power so he didn't need to be near it in order to be a threat to everybody.
I was just saying that it shouldn't be a big buy for the audience because they've seen several huge power ups, including Garlic Jr.'s very own, so I don't know why Gohan turning SSJ2 makes the issue any more of a buy.

Anyway, aside from being largely boring and tad long, there's a moment that doesn't play fair with the audience. Piccolo gets bitten and as it turns out only pretends to have been turned, yet we see his eyes changed colors and if memories serves, so do Kuririn's.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:44 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:28 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:46 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:35 pm
I think people get caught up way too much in the plot mechanics and "logic" rather than the characters and their arcs. Garlic Jr. is already vastly stronger than we first met him because he's closer to a planet. Piccolo is also way stronger after having fused with Nail. Having the Makyo Star make Garlic Jr. a threat to SSJ2 makes as much sense as almost any other power up. Say that little bit of exposition then move on to what really matters - Gohan reaching maturity, although that would've been way more satisfying had the series not pretended he hadn't already reached maturity.
I mean I do agree, but sometimes it can be hard to come up with a reason, quick as it only needs to be, to justify why a character is a challenge. Daimao was a demon, Raditz was a warrior alien, Cell was an amalgam of all the heroes, Buu was sealed-away insane magic, Beerus' entire job is to destroy planets, etc. The Makyo Star would be a good reasoning though: maybe Garlic Jr. found a way to absorb the star's power so he didn't need to be near it in order to be a threat to everybody.
I was just saying that it shouldn't be a big buy for the audience because they've seen several huge power ups, including Garlic Jr.'s very own, so I don't know why Gohan turning SSJ2 makes the issue any more of a buy.

Anyway, aside from being largely boring and tad long, there's a moment that doesn't play fair with the audience. Piccolo gets bitten and as it turns out only pretends to have been turned, yet we see his eyes changed colors and if memories serves, so do Kuririn's.
Piccolo’s could at least be hand waved by his demon heritage. I can’t say the same for Kuririn, though.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:05 pm

Yeah. I think the demon mist was interesting from a plot perspective though: turning the entire planet evil wasn't something we'd see until Baby.

As for power-ups, a fair explaination is all that's really needed, but without one most viewers will be scratching their heads. My personal favourite is that Frieza never actually trained a day in his life, because that's SO in-character for his smug ass.

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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:59 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:09 am
Thank god Takao Koyama never did a BROLY filler.
It could've happened.
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Re: Why does the Garlic Jr. filler arc exist?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:06 pm

They needed something in order to stay behind the manga, and having the first Z movie villain return would draw in viewers. I still wish they did a original villain instead.
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