Would Level Sets be more sucessfull if Funimation wait more?

[KBABZ]

the Dragon Ball fandom has an ability like no other to just roll over and take this shit, even when a better alternative is dangled right in front of our faces, on a blog post explaining why Funi chose to, yet again, do an unbelievably shitty release of our favourite show, so...

They accept and adore the Funimation dub despite it not being the original '95 take, soooooo...

[Robo4900]

the Dragon Ball fandom has an ability like no other to just roll over and take this shit, even when a better alternative is dangled right in front of our faces, on a blog post explaining why Funi chose to, yet again, do an unbelievably shitty release of our favourite show, so...

They accept and adore the Funimation dub despite it not being the original '95 take, soooooo...

Yes, they do accept and adore the Funimation dub despire it being inferior to the original '95 take in almost every way.

In 1999, when Funi switched from the experienced cast of professional voice actors to a bunch of miscast imitators (yes, they've got better since. But their work on the pre-Kai material was largely shit, let's be honest), and amped their "adaptation"/"punching up" of scripts to the max, fans initially got a bit salty, but people generally rolled over and accepted it. These days there's a massive preference for the Funi cast over not just Ocean, but the Japanese cast too. And Funi only make this worse when they willfully make their scripts for their modern work on Super et al. less accurate in the name of adding jokes to "punch up" the humour like it's still 1999, then attempt to justify that with nonsense like "well people have already seen super, so we're giving you a new experience".

And remember, before everything went in the toilet in 1999, they did dangle a near-perfect version in our faces in 97/98; the work Pioneer did on the movies was initially to be the beginnings of uncut redubbing of all the work being done under Saban. But once Saban walked and Funi fired the cast, they also ended up walking away from Pioneer, and technically doing their awful dubbing uncut.
The one and only positive change was the addition of the Japanese version with subtitles. Starting from episode 68 of the show. And not in the PAL version for the first several volumes. And the Japanese OPs/EDs were usually wrong. And the NEPs/recaps were excluded...

My irritation with the state of Dragon Ball's presentation in the west goes deep.

[WittyUsername]

Okay, I’ve said this before, but I think you guys are severely overstating how much people still care about the FUNimation dub. From what I’ve seen, more and more people these days are actually fine with the Japanese version. Many people who previously had a preference for the dub have become accustomed to the Japanese version, thanks to Super. I rarely even see anyone complaining about Masako Nozawa anymore. If anything, a lot more people actually hate Sean Schemmel nowadays for the KickVic stuff, as well as his beefs with other English voices of Goku.

I’m not saying that the FUNimation dub didn’t have a huge following, but these days, I really don’t see very many people who hold up the dub of Z as some kind of holy grail of English dubs.

[Tylerman29]

Okay, I’ve said this before, but I think you guys are severely overstating how much people still care about the FUNimation dub. From what I’ve seen, more and more people these days are actually fine with the Japanese version. Many people who previously had a preference for the dub have become accustomed to the Japanese version, thanks to Super. I rarely even see anyone complaining about Masako Nozawa anymore. If anything, a lot more people actually hate Sean Schemmel nowadays for the KickVic stuff, as well as his beefs with other English voices of Goku.

I’m not saying that the FUNimation dub didn’t have a huge following, but these days, I really don’t see very many people who hold up the dub of Z as some kind of holy grail of English dubs.

I think there are many who recognize it's bad but still like it for the nostalgia. It's worth including for that alone. I can only imagine how irrelevant the Z dub would be if we had the JP broadcast audio on a home release.

[Rory]

Okay, I’ve said this before, but I think you guys are severely overstating how much people still care about the FUNimation dub. From what I’ve seen, more and more people these days are actually fine with the Japanese version. Many people who previously had a preference for the dub have become accustomed to the Japanese version, thanks to Super. I rarely even see anyone complaining about Masako Nozawa anymore.

Had a friend round yesterday who used to be staunch dub watcher. We hadn't hung out for a while so we decided to throw on some Dragon Ball movies for old time sake, and he insisted we watch in Japanese, he now loves Nozawa.
Aka, can confirm.

[Robo4900]

Okay, I’ve said this before, but I think you guys are severely overstating how much people still care about the FUNimation dub. From what I’ve seen, more and more people these days are actually fine with the Japanese version. Many people who previously had a preference for the dub have become accustomed to the Japanese version, thanks to Super. I rarely even see anyone complaining about Masako Nozawa anymore.

Had a friend round yesterday who used to be staunch dub watcher. We hadn't hung out for a while so we decided to throw on some Dragon Ball movies for old time sake, and he insisted we watch in Japanese, he now loves Nozawa.
Aka, can confirm.

Anecdote about one friend =/= evidence of a fundamental change in the wider fandom.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'd definitely say the Japanese version has been more widely accepted since Super. There's still a not insignificant number of fans who stick exclusively to the Funimation dub but I think now that they followed the Super sub while waiting a large number of those former dub elitists can at least appreciate the Japanese version.

[Rory]

Anecdote about one friend =/= evidence of a fundamental change in the wider fandom.

I know, just wanted to humble brag about my radical irl Dragon Ball adventures.

[WittyUsername]

I'd definitely say the Japanese version has been more widely accepted since Super. There's still a not insignificant number of fans who stick exclusively to the Funimation dub but I think now that they followed the Super sub while waiting a large number of those former dub elitists can at least appreciate the Japanese version.

A lot of people hate FUNimation now for firing Vic Mignogna. Go on YouTube and you’ll find a number of comments from people who will say that they’re done with FUNimation, and that Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel are scum of the Earth.

[Robo4900]

I'd definitely say the Japanese version has been more widely accepted since Super. There's still a not insignificant number of fans who stick exclusively to the Funimation dub but I think now that they followed the Super sub while waiting a large number of those former dub elitists can at least appreciate the Japanese version.

A lot of people hate FUNimation now for firing Vic Mignogna. Go on YouTube and you’ll find a number of comments from people who will say that they’re done with FUNimation, and that Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel are scum of the Earth.

It's "a lot of people", but it's not even a remotely significant amount of people. A loud minority, if you will.
Funi's dubs will continue to be rather popular, even if there are a few people who will be leaving mean comments on videos, Facebook posts, etc.

[eledoremassis02]

I was just watching my level sets yesterday and honestly, they are ok. They're a home-run for FUNimation and SHOULD be their standard. But they just don't have the right materials to treat the show how it should be done. The lack of Japanese title cards and NEP previews aside, the film their using is just..eh... it's like the HDTV copies of Back to the Future, they look great because Universal DNRed those to crap, but thats about it because the scans their using are old and multigenerational (usually). FUNi's releases will always be too dark (which was a huge complaint here when the level sets first came out) and we'll never get actual 35mm quality out of those few episodes.

Unless TOEI gives them digital scans of their masters in HD (unless TOEI does it themselves). The one thing I wish was consistent across all releases is the color because I think that's the best we've seen out of any release.

Edit: I also remember someone flipping out because an action line from piccolo (in the Raditz fight) was shifted a frame *probably because they fixed a blemish*

Edit 2: I also forgot to mention how bad the Japanese audio was lol. After listening to the Dragon Box, I didnt realize how it sounded like a phonograph thu a tin can

[Tylerman29]

Edit 2: I also forgot to mention how bad the Japanese audio was lol. After listening to the Dragon Box, I didnt realize how it sounded like a phonograph thu a tin can

How bad it is on the Levels or on any available release? I was under the impression that the JP audio was pretty much the same across every available release.

[Robo4900]

Edit 2: I also forgot to mention how bad the Japanese audio was lol. After listening to the Dragon Box, I didnt realize how it sounded like a phonograph thu a tin can

How bad it is on the Levels or on any available release? I was under the impression that the JP audio was pretty much the same across every available release.

You are correct.

[throwing shade at the Levels]

Ultimately, they were a pretty great release. The crushing was pretty bad on the first few episodes, but if you watch into Level 1.2, you'll see that problem largely goes away. The colour grade is still quite low-contrast, but that's pretty accurate to the original colours, really. And the detail in the picture is unparalleled; every single nuance to the picture is crystal clear. It's hella grainy, but you need to deal with that if you want the kind of detail we're looking at. It's a worthwhile tradeoff.
And really, given we're talking about third-generation film prints, this is about the best result we could hope for.

Thing is, at the very least (and this is a particularly harsh assessment), it's a perfectly solid release. And that isn't something pre-Kai Dragon Ball has had at all since 2005. So, from that perspective, the Levels were a godsend, and Funi's decision to do the Season BDs instead of bringing the Levels back a few years later was an act of evil.

[ABED]

So, from that perspective, the Levels were a godsend, and Funi's decision to do the Season BDs instead of bringing the Levels back a few years later was an act of evil.

And losing money is what?

[eledoremassis02]

Edit 2: I also forgot to mention how bad the Japanese audio was lol. After listening to the Dragon Box, I didnt realize how it sounded like a phonograph thu a tin can

How bad it is on the Levels or on any available release? I was under the impression that the JP audio was pretty much the same across every available release.

You are correct.

[throwing shade at the Levels]

Ultimately, they were a pretty great release. The crushing was pretty bad on the first few episodes, but if you watch into Level 1.2, you'll see that problem largely goes away. The colour grade is still quite low-contrast, but that's pretty accurate to the original colours, really. And the detail in the picture is unparalleled; every single nuance to the picture is crystal clear. It's hella grainy, but you need to deal with that if you want the kind of detail we're looking at. It's a worthwhile tradeoff.
And really, given we're talking about third-generation film prints, this is about the best result we could hope for.

Thing is, at the very least (and this is a particularly harsh assessment), it's a perfectly solid release. And that isn't something pre-Kai Dragon Ball has had at all since 2005. So, from that perspective, the Levels were a godsend, and Funi's decision to do the Season BDs instead of bringing the Levels back a few years later was an act of evil.

Not really shade when I said it should be the standard at FUNimation. They were a good release but people nit-picked them back when they came out and watching them today in post kai and toei scans, the series would look a lot better using the original film source is all I was saying.

[Robo4900]

So, from that perspective, the Levels were a godsend, and Funi's decision to do the Season BDs instead of bringing the Levels back a few years later was an act of evil.

And losing money is what?

Ah yes, because the option was either Funi release the Season BDs as-is, or they lose money. -_-

I'll grant you the way I phrased that implies the only options were shitty Seasons or more Levels, but let's be real, Funi could've put out a not-shit 4:3 set in 2014 and not broken the bank. Probably wouldn't have been as good as the Levels, but we wouldn't have gone from the best release of the franchise to the worst, we'd have simply gone from the best release of the franchise to another pretty great release.
Instead, we went from gold to shit, right after years of shit. So it ends up that, after a lot of trouble about getting them to give us what we want, they finally dangled a fine steak in front of our faces, then at the last second took it away and gave us a plate full of shit instead.
As I say, an act of evil. Not the level of evil of murder, arson, or tax fraud, but what Funi did with the Season BDs is practically an art crime, right after showing us that they are capable of doing things properly.

[ABED]

That's not what I wrote at all. You think they were wrong to not bring back the level sets. There's no way they don't lose money with that release. It's not like they pulled those sets to be dicks. They overestimated the demand and underestimated the cost. If a business can't do something cost effectively, they shouldn't do it.

[KBABZ]

That's not what I wrote at all. You think they were wrong to not bring back the level sets. There's no way they don't lose money with that release. It's not like they pulled those sets to be dicks. They overestimated the demand and underestimated the cost. If a business can't do something cost effectively, they shouldn't do it.

Then shouldn't you be acknowledging that Funi was probably daft themselves to think that such a release would be affordable when the no-effort Orange Bricks gave them years of proof otherwise?

[WittyUsername]

Rewatching videos like this (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mWGVrxP_KV0) really hammers home how much it sucks that the levels were discontinued. The video quality on those things were amazing. If it hadn’t been for the relatively low episode count per set, they could’ve been pretty damn successful.

[ABED]

That's not what I wrote at all. You think they were wrong to not bring back the level sets. There's no way they don't lose money with that release. It's not like they pulled those sets to be dicks. They overestimated the demand and underestimated the cost. If a business can't do something cost effectively, they shouldn't do it.

Then shouldn't you be acknowledging that Funi was probably daft themselves to think that such a release would be affordable when the no-effort Orange Bricks gave them years of proof otherwise?

I don't know why they overestimated demand.