Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:44 pm

I think you are grossly mischaracterizing the MCU, and I would consider DB way more comedicly inclined. It's not even about middle ground. I like that DB's tone shifted over time. What about DB makes you think it is in some sort of middle ground?
Toriyama understood this.
Did he really? I'm not asking this to be dismissive, but I'm genuinely curious how you figure Toriyama's work is some middle ground between dark & serious and comical.
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:27 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:44 pm
What about DB makes you think it is in some sort of middle ground?
Like you said it was the shift in tone. Post-Red Ribbon DB enters into more of a middle ground with the more serious and darker plots/characters. I agree that it tends to be more comedically inclined because of Toriyama and its roots, but there's no denying its shift.
ABED wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:44 pm
Toriyama understood this.
Did he really?
Yes, which is why the Red Ribbon saga and Piccolo Daimao work as well as they do. You can have the darker themes and characters while simultaneously being fun and ridiculous.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:33 pm

But it still oscillates. it doesn't just go dark and stay dark. The 23rd TB is noticeably lighter than the preceding arc. That shift in tone works amazingly well.
Yes, which is why the Red Ribbon saga and Piccolo Daimao work as well as they do. You can have the darker themes and characters while simultaneously being fun and ridiculous.
Darker and more serious doesn't equal better. The 21st TB is still amongst DB's bests, whereas I would consider the RRA arc one of the more boring arcs. Though now that I think about it, the RRA arc has some seriousness to it, but it's hardly what I would call a serious arc. The boss of a paramilitary organization is using all of his resources and murdering people all so he can grow a few inches. And I agree about the last statement, which is why I don't understand why you insist the MCU is so silly in comparison to DB of all things!
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:43 pm

If we're keeping it a buck the only times the RRA arc is more on the serious scale are when Tao arrives and a few moments on Muscle Tower. The rest of the arc might as well be a Leslie Nielsen movie with Kung-Fu
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:33 pm
But it still oscillates. it doesn't just go dark and stay dark. The 23rd TB is noticeably lighter than the preceding arc. That shift in tone works amazingly well.
Yes, which is why the Red Ribbon saga and Piccolo Daimao work as well as they do. You can have the darker themes and characters while simultaneously being fun and ridiculous.
Darker and more serious doesn't equal better. The 21st TB is still amongst DB's bests, whereas I would consider the RRA arc one of the more boring arcs. Though now that I think about it, the RRA arc has some seriousness to it, but it's hardly what I would call a serious arc. The boss of a paramilitary organization is using all of his resources and murdering people all so he can grow a few inches. And I agree about the last statement, which is why I don't understand why you insist the MCU is so silly in comparison to DB of all things!

There was a bit of a shift in tone and that there was actual stakes and people died and lives were threatened but the Red Ribbon arc was overall pretty frothy. It didn’t have that “shit got dark” feel that the Piccolo Daimao saga had.

And while the Red Ribbon Army as a unit was portrayed seriously on the individual basis you had Ninja Murasaki, General Blue, and even Commander Red.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:59 pm

There was definitely a shift in tone, but that was also the case in the 21st TB arc. It's very funny but not as overtly gaggy.
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:31 pm

I’d say that the series didn’t truly shift to a more consistently serious and dark tone until Tamborine killed Kuririn. The Piccolo Daiamao arc in general was very much a turning point in the series.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:36 pm

And while the Red Ribbon Army as a unit was portrayed seriously on the individual basis you had Ninja Murasaki, General Blue, and even Commander Red.
They were neither totally serious or complete jokes. Particularly characters like Blue, Red, or Pai Pai. Blue was comical but also super strong and lethal. Red was portrayed as a shadowy mastermind and then ruthless boss before his true objective was revealed. Taopaipai was a heartless assassin but was still silly in his ways.

It's this duality within the characters that are a reflection of the middle ground that Toriyama was pushing. It extends to Piccolo Daimao as well, with his dark and demonic persona combined with his wacky and eccentric behavior. Although overall leaning more serious than the Red Ribbon guys.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:45 pm

I wouldn't exactly call Red a "shadowy mastermind". He ordered people around, but he didn't have some amazing shadowy plan, nor was the RRA some clandestine organization.

You keep calling it a middle ground, but DB is anything but. It's constantly changing tones and not in a single direction. The contrast is often what allows anything to land. The Piccolo Daimao arc stands out because it's so different from what came before and what immediately precedes it.
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:51 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:31 pm
I’d say that the series didn’t truly shift to a more consistently serious and dark tone until Tamborine killed Kuririn. The Piccolo Daiamao arc in general was very much a turning point in the series.
Eh, I'd say the 22nd TB would be the point where the tone makes a significant shift and then Krillin's death solidifies it.
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by KBABZ » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:15 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:51 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:31 pm
I’d say that the series didn’t truly shift to a more consistently serious and dark tone until Tamborine killed Kuririn. The Piccolo Daiamao arc in general was very much a turning point in the series.
Eh, I'd say the 22nd TB would be the point where the tone makes a significant shift and then Krillin's death solidifies it.
Agreed. It's all gradual of course: Blue is the first formidible foe that Goku has to take seriously, and Tao straight up kills a character for no reason and nearly kills Goku too, but Tien is an intense character. Tsuru Sen'nin's ego-filled quest for revenge and Tien's starkly pragmatic approach to combat meant that Goku had to fight much more seriously in both approach and mood. There's a lot of venom in the 22nd TB arc and the audience is taught to really loathe Tien as a character until he's able to redeem himself.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:26 am

While the shift from "pure Slumpian gag manga" to "semi-serious kung fu fantasy epic" is incredibly gradual throughout, the 22nd Budokai is certainly indeed where I've always marked the sharpest "turn" in the tone of the series. Daimao solidifies it yes, but really its the 22nd Budokai where I think the series basically becomes more or less straight up DBZ in all but name.

Its an overlooked arc in general (which it really shouldn't be, since its one of the whole series' very, very best), but its really kind of a crucial turning point where Toriyama really shakes off a lot of the Slump-era gag mentality and plunges the series full on into just a straight up Shaw Bros. homage (down to the fact that the 22nd Budokai arc's broad plot outline is lifted almost verbatim from a Shaw film).
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:51 am

You can really look at the 22nd Budoukai and Daimao as being one whole saga in many ways. With it all being set within that specific timeframe and the characters and situations introduced in the former arc continuing into the latter.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by omegacwa » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:36 am

I just want to be clear that I was in no way advocating for a "grimdark" or "edgy" take on Dragon Ball. All I was trying to say is that it seems that the average movie goer is starting to get wise to the "marvel formula" and might be growing weary, I know I myself am.

With Dragon Ball the challenge is nailing the comedy aspect while simultaneously having amazingly well done serious martial arts scenes with actual stakes and tension. It's a balance that is going to be very difficult to do in live action. A cartoon/manga/comic can get away with way more than a live action movie can.

I'd honestly be on board with a stripped down Dragon Ball movie that focused mostly on the martial arts elements and basically only had maybe one Kamehameha in it. Just focus on getting the comedy right and getting amazingly choreographed fight scenes done all in camera.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:46 am

Not sure where you got the idea that people are "getting wise" to the Marvel "formula" whatever the hell any of that means. Considering every MCU film this year has crossed 1B and their denouement is the highest grossing film of all time, that's a bizarre claim. People like more than one thing. They can like more serious films and more comical films. It's not either or.

Having good fights with tension and stakes is no different in essence between live action and animation.

And if we're being pedantic, the Kamehameha IS martial arts.
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by omegacwa » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:18 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:46 am
Not sure where you got the idea that people are "getting wise" to the Marvel "formula" whatever the hell any of that means. Considering every MCU film this year has crossed 1B and their denouement is the highest grossing film of all time, that's a bizarre claim. People like more than one thing. They can like more serious films and more comical films. It's not either or.

Having good fights with tension and stakes is no different in essence between live action and animation.

And if we're being pedantic, the Kamehameha IS martial arts.
I never said people can't like both comedy and serious stuff.

Marvel movies, mainly the standalones follow a very similar formula. I fear the bubble is going to burst, especially now that "the infinity saga" is over and several of the most popular characters have been functionally retired.

I was referring to the comedy elements only, not the action. Dragon Ball's distinct comedy style I feel will be difficult to translate to live action without coming off stupid.

Also you know what I meant with that Kamehameha comment. I meant focus on the physical hand to hand combat style and less on the fantastical.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:25 pm

It's not a bubble because I'm sure those in charge aren't counting on keeping up that level of emotion and coasting on it.

All this talk about balance. Balance, balance, balance. Balance this, balance that. It's not about balance! It boggles my mind to think anyone can honestly think Toriyama's work is somehow more "balanced" (again, whatever the hell that means, and I have serious doubts anyone here saying that knows exactly what they mean by it either). It's about how it's done and when, not necessarily the quantity.

How would you describe Toriyama's distinct comedic style?
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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by omegacwa » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:31 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:25 pm
How would you describe Toriyama's distinct comedic style?
Silly, Childish, and often times perverse.

Now, I'm not the most steeped in Hong Kong action movies, but I can't really think of many action movies that I've seen that include people spying on young girls, an old man groping women, a young boy pulling his pants down and or getting naked at inappropriate times, a young boy grabbing or slapping people in the crotch to see if they are a man or woman, a man who smells so bad he rubs his dick and uses the smell to attack someone, people getting pissed on and so on.

And for the record, I have nothing against this kind of humor.

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Re: Rumor: Disney Developing New Live-Action Dragon Ball Movie With Asian Cast

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:58 pm

Well that's not a case of it translating to live action, it's a case of it translating to modern day. Not that it was ever okay, but spying on teen girls isn't okay, but sexual humor itself is perfectly translatable from one medium to another.
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