Hulk10 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:40 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:18 am
Hulk10 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:05 pm
No reckless because it wasn't just his own advantage that he was thinking about yes he was thinking about his advantage but he was also thinking about saving his friends and family. So doing something to benefit others in your world without thinking about the consequences is reckless not selfish. And nothing could warrant complete annihilation of all mortal life. Destroying the Time Machine was a good idea, but wiping out all mortal life and the other gods? No. There is no cause for that, no reason at all.
Zamasu proves the point that the gods are not infallible. And their rules can become outdated. Also lets not forget that one of the other Universes has a Time Machine too. Its in the possession of a Supreme Kai but it still exists so the gods can be tolerant of it. But none of them except for that awful Zamasu would wipe out mortal life in all the universes and all the other gods. So Zamasu is the real villain, the real troublemaker.
While I shall not yield in my stance I can see that this debate about Time Travel is pointless and I have no desire to continue.
That's why he see his selfish. Okay, he saved his family and friends on Earth. There is an entire reality beyond the Earth. A reality that was irreversibly shattered by his time travel.
How do the rules of the gods become "outdated"? They've literally existed since forever and you can't even say that they are false laws because we have visibly seen the dire ramifications of time travel. The gods are tolerant of time travel because only THEY can use it, and indeed that time machine of Universe 12 was confiscated by the Supreme Kai of that universe. That is nothing new though, we already know Kais are allowed to time travel, but only to the future and only for a very specific purpose. The Destroyers meanwhile are forbidden from time travelling too. The gods are very strict when it comes to this. I already brought up Beerus' example, I could bring up Gowasu's too. Upon seeing the time rings created by the warping Trunks caused, he comments on how foolish someone would be to do such a thing.
Also, yeah, I guess you're right. There's nothing that warrants universal genocide. But is it real such a big deal? I mean, Goku is all friendly and stuff with a guy who destroyed trillions of innocents for fun, so I don't see what the problem is.
You are welcome to see Future Trunks's actions as selfish. But I don't agree not when his motives were to protect his family and friends. Also the only ramifications I saw of Time Travel were Zamasu going all crazy and genocidal. That was Zamasu's fault; a product of his own twisted mind. Zamasu completely invalidated his views by his own actions.
I'm not saying that Time Travel rules are pointless but some of their rules are foolish like the Supreme Kais not doing anything other than observe mortals and not do anything to guide them. And Beerus and Zeno don't destroy things for fun. They do it for petty reasons. But they are not evil. Universal genocide might not be a big deal to Beerus or other gods of destruction but it is a big deal for others none the less.
Trunks' intentions were noble, I never doubted that, but that's precisely why the situation is morally grey. From the perspective of the gods, Trunks is just another mortal, earthlings are just another species, why should they be allowed to have the privilege of time travelling, especially when that's very dangerous for the stability of the cosmos? In light of this, good intentions are not enough. They are certainly not enough from the perspective of the deities, whose ultimate duty is to safeguard the cosmos. Any god who would choose a single world over the stability of reality is an incompetent fool who shouldn't be a deity in the first place.
Time travel was one of the main arguments Zamasu used to justify a crusade that he perceived as righteous. He pointed out how this alliance between two Zamases was made by possible by the warping Trunks caused all the way back to Z. Had Trunks never given Goku an antidote for the heart virus, Goku would have died
like history dictated, and Zamasu would have never switched bodies or teamed up with another version of himself. As you can see, the situation is much more complex, it is not as simple as just "well, Zamasu was made, that's the only reason why time travel is bad". If one single use of time travel allowed all of this to happen, imagine if EVERY mortal species started time travelling.
Your point about the other rules of the gods is out of scope, because I merely pointed out that there is a law against time travel (without even going too much into its validity). But yes, several laws of the gods are foolish, that's the crux of Zamasu's fall from grace.
You also mentioned that the gods are not perfect, and that's something Zamasu also aknowledged. He knew that the gods made a mistake, he exterminated them for that mistake, and he thought it was his duty to fix the screw-ups of his peers. He literally stained his form with the body of a mortal precisely to embed upon his flesh the failures of the gods.
Also, your final argument makes no sense. On one hand, you realize Beerus and Zeno destroy entire worlds full of innocent people for petty reasons, and yet you follow it up with "but they are not evil". Define evil then. Because if destroying billions just because they make bad food is not evil, then what is evil?
