Most well developed characters in the franchise?

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Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Bansho64 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:59 pm

In terms of character development, Dragon Ball is a franchise that has had it's ups and downs in terms of handling the characters in it's story. Which characters would you say have had the most developed progression? And which ones would you say lack a bit and would like to see developed more?
Last edited by Bansho64 on Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best and worst developed characters in the franchise?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:04 pm

Not all the characters have to be as dynamic as Vegeta (my answer to who gets the best development), but those static main characters should be well defined and shouldn't have it easy. I don't want to think about who has the worst development, but Toriyama is usually pretty good about giving his characters at least one good arc.
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Re: Best and worst developed characters in the franchise?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:24 pm

This is a pretty tricky question to answer. I guess if we’re talking about characters who go through the least amount of changes over the course of the series, then the Muten Roshi, Yaijrobe, Chaotzu, Puar (if you could even call him a character), and Goku himself would qualify.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Vijay » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:30 pm

Most well-developed: Son Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, Mr. Satan

Sufficiently developed characters: Master Roshi, Yamcha, Tien, Krillin, Chichi, Yajirobe

I liked how like a user has mentioned, every character has at last 1 Arc for Akira Toriyama to develop them. Take a look at Tien from 22nd TB~King Piccolo Arc

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Chaozu was never really anything but an extension of Tenshinhan. He got more development in the alternate movie 3 universe than in the main series.


With a cast as wide as Dragon Ball I really don’t think every character needs to develop.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Bansho64 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:46 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:30 pm
With a cast as wide as Dragon Ball I really don’t think every character needs to develop.
Agreed. Not EVERYONE in the cast has to be present and constantly developed. But, on that same note, there are times when even the characters present in the main cast are kind of stale or just present, if that makes sense.

That's probably where I feel some issues lie. Not every character has to be included, but the ones that are should be handled well IMO.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am

Trunks as a character overall had some good development. First we saw his future version in Cell saga, then his present counterpart in Buu saga as a boy who got a chance to grow up in a better world and then we see effects of that in GT where adult Trunks is completely different character due to his life being so much different.

Vegeta also changed a lot since Saiyan saga to Buu saga and GT, even accepting Goku being better than him and considering him a friend, as well as changing the unhealthy rivalry to more friendly rivalry.

Also, obviously Gohan. Especially between Cell and Buu sagas.
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by ABED » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:32 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:11 am
Also, obviously Gohan. Especially between Cell and Buu sagas.
That's not that obvious. In fact I would argue that Gohan regressed during that time.
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Xeogran » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:00 am

Freeza is pretty different now than how he was back on Namek and before. Especially during the ToP. For a DB villian that's a big change, he even agreed to GIVE GOKU HIS ENERGY FOR GENKI DAMA.

And then repaid the debt by once again giving him back energy, after Goku's UI expired. Freeza feels, dare I say it, tsundere now.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:15 pm

Zamasu sort of had a character development arc in his storyline.

Granted, it was developing into a complete psychopath.
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm

DB shouldn't treat its characters like Looney Tunes / comic book -characters IMO. Given the fact that a big part of the audience is adult, i think it would be more intresting, if the'd give the characters a bit more development than what we get now. I think it would make matters more intresting if they'd dare to leave the save paths now and then. DB sticks a tad too much to its usual characterisation.

To give an answer: both Vegeta and Gohan had a lot of development during DBZ, but that was basically made undone during Super.
As a fighter: Goku. He went from an emo-driven fighter to a mindfullness-like fighter. But all-in-all i don't feel there is an awful lot of character development.

I'd give that to the fans of GT. At least GT dared to sail away from the paths of certainty in order to experiment. They didn't always succeeded, but at least they'd tried. The modern franchise doesn't seem to try something new at all and mostly relies on fanservice. I would LOVE to see some DB with more development in both characters as concepts.
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Vegeta Z-Super
Piccolo Z
Gohan Z -Super
Mr Satan Z
Mr Buu Z
17 Super
Zamasu
Future Trunks Super
Beerus
Hit
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
To give an answer: both Vegeta and Gohan had a lot of development during DBZ, but that was basically made undone during Super.
As a fighter: Goku. He went from an emo-driven fighter to a mindfullness-like fighter. But all-in-all i don't feel there is an awful lot of character development.

That never happened
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
I'd give that to the fans of GT. At least GT dared to sail away from the paths of certainty in order to experiment. They didn't always succeeded, but at least they'd tried. The modern franchise doesn't seem to try something new at all and mostly relies on fanservice. I would LOVE to see some DB with more development in both characters as concepts.
they gave goku all the protagonism .... others are secondary included vegeta I don't see where the new is.
Last edited by Tai Lung on Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by funrush » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:46 pm

The most developed is Vegeta, followed by Gohan IMO.

Vegeta, the Prince and heir to a destroyed planet, forced into servitude by the guy who murdered his whole family/race. Not like he cares that much about his family or anyone but himself, he's a heartless monster. Vegeta centers his whole identity around being the best Saiyan, the best of a race of legendary warriors, and then Goku shows up and shatters his worldview. Namek arc happens, and Vegeta crying and using his last moments to encourage Goku is a top DB moment and the first real showing of vulnerability in a character who up until that point was a one-note heartless murderer. Then he settles down on Earth, has a son, Cell arc happens and he has a really interesting relationship with Future Trunks & you start to see Vegeta's hard exterior really crack. Then the Majin Vegeta stuff happens, which is the only time I've ever seen a shonen give one of its protagonists a midlife crisis, and it's explosive as hell.

With Goku dead and Gohan slacking, Vegeta feels like he's training to beat ghosts. His whole identity was being the best Saiyan, and the only competition is either dead, not trying, or small children. Compare everyone's Super Saiyan transformations through the Cell arc. Goku and Trunks transform after the death of a loved one. Gohan transforms first to protect a loved one, then after the death of a loved one. Vegeta transforms out of pure willpower, because he wants to be the best that fucking badly. And he can't handle it anymore. So he lets Babidi take him over, because he was the best when he was a heartless murderer, so maybe that's what he needs to beat Goku and prove that he's the best. But he doesn't win, and eventually he realizes he loves his family, and being the best isn't everything, so he sacrifices himself against Buu in an attempt to save everyone. It's the first time he acts out of unashamed total selflessness and it's a great conclusion to his series-long character arc. And most DB characters don't even get character arcs at all.

Gohan's arc is quite different. He's sorta like Spider-Man. A guy who doesn't want to fight, but has to, because he's capable and feels that he needs to in order to defend himself and the planet. But although Spider-Man is young, Gohan is literally a child. He's forced into horribly traumatic situations from a super young age, but he still powers through because he has to. Goku and Piccolo put pressure on him to reach his hidden potential. Over the Saiyan/Namek/Android arcs you see him slowly grow as a fighter and become more confident, eventually culminating in his SS2 transformation, where he surpasses Goku, Vegeta, Cell, everyone, and finally lives up to that potential that's been so hyped. And with Goku dead, and the Earth presumably safe forever, Gohan retires and gets to live a normal life away from the awful trauma that plagued his childhood. But then Buu arc and Super have no idea what the fuck to do with him and are wishy-washy as hell about if they want Gohan to still be a fighter or not.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:25 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:38 pm



That never happened
What never happened?
Gokus evolution as a fighter, which is an important part of his character within the context of DB?
I disagree in that case.

they gave goku all the protagonism .... others are secondary included vegeta I don't see where the new is
I just meant i had the feeling GT did dare to experiment more in general with new concepts, where as Super is more in compliant with DB/DBZ IMHO and more relies to fanservice.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:25 pm
What never happened?
Gokus evolution as a fighter, which is an important part of his character within the context of DB?
I disagree in that case.
they gave goku all the protagonism .... others are secondary included vegeta I don't see where the new is
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:23 pm
To give an answer: both Vegeta and Gohan had a lot of development during DBZ, but that was basically made undone during Super.
what a undone thing?
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:25 pm
I just meant i had the feeling GT did dare to experiment more in general with new concepts, where as Super is more in compliant with DB/DBZ IMHO and more relies to fanservice.
I really don't see how ...
Recycling the dragon ball adventure plot at this point didn't have much future ...
creating a super android 17 and reviving the dead again doesn't seem like a good concept
neither use the old plot of a video game about tsufurujins

the only interesting concepts were a parasitic enemy, the dragon balls as final boss

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:22 am

Vegeta for the protagonists, Zamasu for the villains.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:15 pm
Zamasu sort of had a character development arc in his storyline.

Granted, it was developing into a complete psychopath.
That's still a development arc, a negative development to be exact. People like Vegeta and Piccolo are able to become better people, whereas Zamasu just cannot rise beyond his own twisted ideals and descends further and further into madness. Here's an interesting video from Totally Not Mark if you're interested on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0meBqA1d4
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:34 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:25 pm
I just meant i had the feeling GT did dare to experiment more in general with new concepts, where as Super is more in compliant with DB/DBZ IMHO and more relies to fanservice.
I really don't see how ...
Recycling the dragon ball adventure plot at this point didn't have much future ...
creating a super android 17 and reviving the dead again doesn't seem like a good concept
I see how: an adventure, as boring as that might be, will still engage somehow. You are witnessing characters in slight different situations and sometimes there's even a mystery to be solved wherever they are. This is far more interesting than seeing endless fights with no actual consequence in a situation that repeated itself almost instantly.

Major characters may die permanently, whereas they are totally safe with Toriyama around.

There is a sense of progression.
Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 pm
neither use the old plot of a video game about tsufurujins
What "plot of a video game" are you referring to?
Games - You are weak. Why are you weak?
Dragon Ball Super - *coughes*
Games - Because you lack... Content.

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Vijay » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:25 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:22 am
Vegeta for the protagonists, Zamasu for the villains.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:15 pm
Zamasu sort of had a character development arc in his storyline.

Granted, it was developing into a complete psychopath.
That's still a development arc, a negative development to be exact. People like Vegeta and Piccolo are able to become better people, whereas Zamasu just cannot rise beyond his own twisted ideals and descends further and further into madness. Here's an interesting video from Totally Not Mark if you're interested on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0meBqA1d4
I simply cannot find any redeeming quality for Zamasu that supports notion he had any sorta "development". If anything, dude was stuck up with his superiority complex & ningen emo😂😂😂

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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:38 am

Vijay wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:25 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:22 am
Vegeta for the protagonists, Zamasu for the villains.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:15 pm
Zamasu sort of had a character development arc in his storyline.

Granted, it was developing into a complete psychopath.
That's still a development arc, a negative development to be exact. People like Vegeta and Piccolo are able to become better people, whereas Zamasu just cannot rise beyond his own twisted ideals and descends further and further into madness. Here's an interesting video from Totally Not Mark if you're interested on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0meBqA1d4
I simply cannot find any redeeming quality for Zamasu that supports notion he had any sorta "development". If anything, dude was stuck up with his superiority complex & ningen emo😂😂😂
I never said he was redeemed. He developed to become worse, not better.
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Re: Most well developed characters in the franchise?

Post by Vijay » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:55 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:38 am
Vijay wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:25 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:22 am
Vegeta for the protagonists, Zamasu for the villains.



That's still a development arc, a negative development to be exact. People like Vegeta and Piccolo are able to become better people, whereas Zamasu just cannot rise beyond his own twisted ideals and descends further and further into madness. Here's an interesting video from Totally Not Mark if you're interested on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0meBqA1d4
I simply cannot find any redeeming quality for Zamasu that supports notion he had any sorta "development". If anything, dude was stuck up with his superiority complex & ningen emo😂😂😂
I never said he was redeemed. He developed to become worse, not better.
Dats called character regression. I actually liked him better when he was introduced as caretaker of Gowasu. His calm, cunning & scheming mindset with vile hatred for barbaric nature of low lives makes him an edgy character. The moment he entered the battle & by the time he fused...dude reminded me of GT Oozaru Baby....a ridiculous shell of his former self. All those complexity & edgyness became as stale as his "ningen"

I found him boring as Fused Zamasu tbh. Well, when even great Vegito felt bored to his talks..who are we mere mortals🤣🤣🤣

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