If a new series were to be developed, Toei should go for a different approach

[ABED]

There is no most correct or sane answer IMO. It's all a matter of taste / feeling towards something.
One can try and prove an opinion with arguments that are "as objective as possible".
But at the end it's still a very subjective matter.

But is there anything left to say with DB that a new series is warranted even with a new approach to the production?

[Michsi]

Y'know, I'm okay with people having this opinion in general, but what really ruffles my feathers is the attitude.


This incorrect fan here would love to see...

I was expressing agreement and solidarity with Masenko's post. Yeah, with a healthy dose of snark, I admit. But I wasn't even remotely thinking about or calling out anyone in particular whatsoever: certainly not you at all. So the whole "this incorrect" fan thing, seemingly indicating like you were personally offended or insulted by the specific manner in my asserting a strong agreement with someone else (in an exchange that had literally nothing at all to do with you) is, if you'll pardon my saying... really, really bizarre, inexplicable, and out of nowhere.

I get tone policing when someone is being needlessly and overtly nasty to someone for no good reason: but tone policing over the level of strength, confidence, or conviction in which an opinion or viewpoint is held (particularly when its over something as inconsequential as a children's martial arts cartoon) seems... kinda warped.

Honest, sincere question. If I phrased it instead as:

"Over 35 posts in, and this is still the most sensible reply."

Would that have been any better? What's the inoffensive and attitude-free (to you) way of me expressing agreement with something without simply stating flatly "Yes, I agree with this"?

I probably shouldn't even be responding to this in the first place, but I'm legitimately taken aback how a single lone sentence that wasn't any sort of attack or personal insult directed at anyone still manages to find a way to personally offend and insult someone.

Well, yes, in a way. Not insulted , nor did I take it that personally, but it did , as I mentioned, ruffle my feathers. And your alternative would've still gotten a reaction out of me, though possibly I would've toned it down myself. I actually did choose to deleted most of what I intended to write in my reply specifically because I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it, but still express what I thought of this addition to a thread dedicated to a hypothetical continuation from people that want to see one. I only referenced "correct response", the rest seemed equally unfair and mean. You ,and anyone else, absolutely have the right to say whatever you feel in whatever thread you want, I'm just saying there are certain things that just aren't called for.

I just feel people, especially on the net, are quick to reach for snark and witticism at the expense of decency.

Edit: I realize it's a minor thing, and I could've been less snarky myself, but I see so much of this attitude that I just feel like I need to draw attention to it occasionally. If I made it seem like I was trying to shame you, no, definitely didn't mean to go that far.

[Mister_Popo]

There is no most correct or sane answer IMO. It's all a matter of taste / feeling towards something.
One can try and prove an opinion with arguments that are "as objective as possible".
But at the end it's still a very subjective matter.

But is there anything left to say with DB that a new series is warranted even with a new approach to the production?

Not if you don't want DB to continue (subjective). Apparently there are enough people that have a different opinion about this and want to give feedback about it. You want it to end right away or should have ended already, but that doesn't necessarily mean others share that same opinion. It's not a fact whatsoever the revival can't continue for a few years and bring along some enjoyable content for a number of fans. It might not be you, but other people might enjoy it nontheless.

[ABED]

There is no most correct or sane answer IMO. It's all a matter of taste / feeling towards something.
One can try and prove an opinion with arguments that are "as objective as possible".
But at the end it's still a very subjective matter.

But is there anything left to say with DB that a new series is warranted even with a new approach to the production?

Not if you don't want DB to continue (subjective). Apparently there are enough people that have a different opinion about this and want to give feedback about it. You want it to end right away or should have ended already, but that doesn't necessarily mean others share that same opinion.

I'm aware there's no consensus, but it's clear the reason the trend of bringing back TV series isn't driven by the audience's desire to see characters at a later point in their life, but nostalgia. DB has covered so much ground, there's nowhere fundamentally new to go and the magic is gone. Bringing back Toriyama and shortening the episode order won't recapture lightning in a bottle.

[Mister_Popo]

But is there anything left to say with DB that a new series is warranted even with a new approach to the production?

Not if you don't want DB to continue (subjective). Apparently there are enough people that have a different opinion about this and want to give feedback about it. You want it to end right away or should have ended already, but that doesn't necessarily mean others share that same opinion.

I'm aware there's no consensus, but it's clear the reason the trend of bringing back TV series isn't driven by the audience's desire to see characters at a later point in their life, but nostalgia. DB has covered so much ground, there's nowhere fundamentally new to go and the magic is gone. Bringing back Toriyama and shortening the episode order won't recapture lightning in a bottle.

It already went over the line with DBZ / GT in that case.
If it were to be 400 episodes or 700, that doesn't make the big difference. It's not a short story anyway. It's the quality of the storytelling that matters most to me.
I feel there are still good stories to be to told, as i did enjoy Super to some extend, but a different approach / more experimenting could make matters more intresting.
DB (story of Son Goku) isn't meant to last forever, but i don't see something wrong with a temporary revival at such.

It's basically a never ending discussion. It's , because it's all subjective at the end. There is no real solution, as there is no real problem.

[Kunzait_83]

You ,and anyone else, absolutely have the right to say whatever you feel in whatever thread you want, I'm just saying there are certain things that just aren't called for.

I just feel people, especially on the net, are quick to reach for snark and witticism at the expense of decency.

I feel like decency on the net takes a step back

How was anything in that single, benign sentence "indecent"? I didn't use a racial slur, I didn't insult anyone, I didn't bully anyone, I didn't express so much as a hint of nastiness or meanness toward anyone in the slightest bit. So... what exactly is it that you're even taking issue with in the first place? What is it we're even talking about here exactly?

Do we just have a different definition of what "decency" means? Because in my definition, there is nothing the slightest bit indecent about strongly holding a dissenting or unpopular viewpoint and not expressing it in the most sheepishly apologetic manner possible. Particularly when its simply over (once again, not to belabor the obvious here) a fucking children's cartoon show.

And if you're going to bring up the "lack of decency on the internet" into this... I mean bro, come the fuck on.... have you taken a look around lately? Per the current social climate, even within this very forum we're posting on there has had no shortage of users of late skulking around here expressing genuinely hateful, vile, and bigoted views towards other people that post here (and in general).

And yet you're choosing THAT post to single out and call out for a supposed "lack of decency"?

You might want to rethink your targets and priorities here is all I'm saying.

[ABED]

Not if you don't want DB to continue (subjective). Apparently there are enough people that have a different opinion about this and want to give feedback about it. You want it to end right away or should have ended already, but that doesn't necessarily mean others share that same opinion.

I'm aware there's no consensus, but it's clear the reason the trend of bringing back TV series isn't driven by the audience's desire to see characters at a later point in their life, but nostalgia. DB has covered so much ground, there's nowhere fundamentally new to go and the magic is gone. Bringing back Toriyama and shortening the episode order won't recapture lightning in a bottle.

It already went over the line with DBZ / GT in that case.
If it were to be 400 episodes or 700, that doesn't make the big difference. It's not a short story anyway. It's the quality of the storytelling that matters most to me.
I feel there are still good stories to be to told, as i did enjoy Super to some extend, but a different approach / more experimenting could make matters more intresting.
DB (story of Son Goku) isn't meant to last forever, but i don't see something wrong with a temporary revival at such.

It's basically a never ending discussion. It's , because it's all subjective at the end. There is no real solution, as there is no real problem.

It's not a short story and it covered so much ground, there's nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. The magic just isn't there anymore and overall lack of quality revivals proves my thesis.

I take some issue with audiences' inability to stories end gracefully.

[Michsi]

You ,and anyone else, absolutely have the right to say whatever you feel in whatever thread you want, I'm just saying there are certain things that just aren't called for.

I just feel people, especially on the net, are quick to reach for snark and witticism at the expense of decency.

I feel like decency on the net takes a step back

How was anything in that single, benign sentence "indecent"? I didn't use a racial slur, I didn't insult anyone, I didn't bully anyone, I didn't express so much as a hint of nastiness or meanness toward anyone in the slightest bit. So... what exactly is it that you're even taking issue with in the first place? What is it we're even talking about here exactly?

Do we just have a different definition of what "decency" means? Because in my definition, there is nothing the slightest bit indecent about strongly holding a dissenting or unpopular viewpoint and not expressing it in the most sheepishly apologetic manner possible. Particularly when its simply over (once again, not to belabor the obvious here) a fucking children's cartoon show.

And if you're going to bring up the "lack of decency on the internet" into this... I mean bro, come the fuck on.... have you taken a look around lately? Per the current social climate, even within this very forum we're posting on there has had no shortage of users of late skulking around here expressing genuinely hateful, vile, and bigoted views towards other people that post here (and in general).

And yet you're choosing THAT post to single out and call out for a "lack of decency"?

Possibly, given what you use as examples of the opposite. Racial slurs, bullying etc to me are a step or so above indecency. Rather I thought it inappropriate and unnecessarily, and mean towards the people in this thread that were discussing the topic.

Also, yes, I am more than aware of the social climate, the vitriol on the net- I see it everywhere. There are instances where a stronger tone, sarcasm, snark, etc are warranted- this just wasn't it IMO

For what it's worth, I did edit my previous response.

[Mister_Popo]

I'm aware there's no consensus, but it's clear the reason the trend of bringing back TV series isn't driven by the audience's desire to see characters at a later point in their life, but nostalgia. DB has covered so much ground, there's nowhere fundamentally new to go and the magic is gone. Bringing back Toriyama and shortening the episode order won't recapture lightning in a bottle.

It already went over the line with DBZ / GT in that case.
If it were to be 400 episodes or 700, that doesn't make the big difference. It's not a short story anyway. It's the quality of the storytelling that matters most to me.
I feel there are still good stories to be to told, as i did enjoy Super to some extend, but a different approach / more experimenting could make matters more intresting.
DB (story of Son Goku) isn't meant to last forever, but i don't see something wrong with a temporary revival at such.

It's basically a never ending discussion. It's , because it's all subjective at the end. There is no real solution, as there is no real problem.

It's not a short story and it covered so much ground, there's nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. The magic just isn't there anymore and overall lack of quality revivals proves my thesis.

I take some issue with audiences' inability to stories end gracefully.

I rather think the reception of the movie 'Broly' indicates your thesis isn't a real fact, only your subjective impression.
There were a lot of people that actually didn't like the Super anime but did like the movie.
Broly was a good movie, but at the same time it was, yet again, additional DB-related content creamed on top of the already massive story.
IMO that proves it has more to do with quality than quantity.

[ABED]

If anything it proves my point. It was driven by nostalgia. I can just as easily say the overall appraisal was driven by nostalgic attachment to a character that was popular even before the first film featuring him came to the US.

Broly's a terrible movie and so much of it is meant to give the audience a hit of the nostalgia drug, but wrapped up in some damn good animation.

[JulieYBM]

I want to see the staff know when a story arc is going to end. It felt like nobody knew when the Future Trunks arc and Tournament of Power were going to end.

[Mister_Popo]

If anything it proves my point. It was driven by nostalgia. I can just as easily say the overall appraisal was driven by nostalgic attachment to a character that was popular even before the first film featuring him came to the US.

Broly's a terrible movie and so much of it is meant to give the audience a hit of the nostalgia drug, but wrapped up in some damn good animation.

Well, that 'nostalgia drug' does not always work automatically.
Creating a feeling of nostalgia IMO, is not a drug, it's an art on its own where good stories are needed as well as animation.
Toriyama rewrote Broly, an existing character, true, but he at least did something innovating with it.
For a DB-antagonist, i thought Broly got an excellent backstory.

[ABED]

Nostalgia is a drug. It's very powerful at first, but over time, people build up a tolerance and go to more extremes to get that fix. When it inevitably stops working people get cranky.

Toriyama did nothing innovative with Broly. Giving him a sad backstory is hardly innovative. I'd hardly call his backstory complex. It's pretty trite.

[Michsi]

Nostalgia is a drug. It's very powerful at first, but over time, people build up a tolerance and go to more extremes to get that fix. When it inevitably stops working people get cranky.

Toriyama did nothing innovative with Broly. Giving him a sad backstory is hardly innovative. I'd hardly call his backstory complex. It's pretty trite.

While what he did with Broly might not be innovative, the fact that he practically rewrote his character to the point only the barest hint of the original remained kinda speaks against the nostalgia aspect.

[ABED]

Nostalgia is a drug. It's very powerful at first, but over time, people build up a tolerance and go to more extremes to get that fix. When it inevitably stops working people get cranky.

Toriyama did nothing innovative with Broly. Giving him a sad backstory is hardly innovative. I'd hardly call his backstory complex. It's pretty trite.

While what he did with Broly might not be innovative, the fact that he practically rewrote his character to the point only the barest hint of the original remained kinda speaks against the nostalgia aspect.

Was he a Saiyan castaway left to die? Is he really ridiculously strong? Does his rage make him stronger? That's there in both versions. There isn't much else to the character in either incarnation, except one being a good guy, and the evil one having an ingrained hatred towards Goku.

If they weren't counting on Nostalgia, why call him Broly?

[Mister_Popo]

Nostalgia is a drug. It's very powerful at first, but over time, people build up a tolerance and go to more extremes to get that fix. When it inevitably stops working people get cranky.

Toriyama did nothing innovative with Broly. Giving him a sad backstory is hardly innovative. I'd hardly call his backstory complex. It's pretty trite.

There is no 'fix' in my opinion. I can enjoy new series as well as DB.
I only like the future DB-content there is to come to be animated, as this is a substantial part of DB's success and experience.
Moreover i'd like them to experiment with some new stuff we haven't seen before.
But that's a completely different view from not willing to accept DB may have an ending one day.

[Michsi]

Nostalgia is a drug. It's very powerful at first, but over time, people build up a tolerance and go to more extremes to get that fix. When it inevitably stops working people get cranky.

Toriyama did nothing innovative with Broly. Giving him a sad backstory is hardly innovative. I'd hardly call his backstory complex. It's pretty trite.

While what he did with Broly might not be innovative, the fact that he practically rewrote his character to the point only the barest hint of the original remained kinda speaks against the nostalgia aspect.

Was he a Saiyan castaway left to die? Is he really ridiculously strong? Does his rage make him stronger? That's there in both versions. There isn't much else to the character in either incarnation, except one being a good guy, and the evil one having an ingrained hatred towards Goku.

If they weren't counting on Nostalgia, why call him Broly?

Popularity, especially for western fans. All the aspect you mentioned are things I dissociate with the original Broly. What made him memorable was his rage form(used sparingly and only added by animation team, not part of the original script) sadism (gone completely), image of an indestructible force (crazy powerful, but it never felt like he pushed the fighters to the absolute brink,)and obsession with Kakarot (also not there). Basically, I think they used the name as brand to get people interested and used just enough of the old character to not make people think they've been duped.(which some still felt)

[ABED]

Popularity, especially for western fans.

And at this point, it's nostalgia.

You keep digging into specific aspects of the film and characterization that are often superficially different, not to mention the BTS stuff which no one but hardcore geeks care or know about. Why does it matter if the rage was only added by the animation team? It's in the movie. Yes, Broly's sadism isn't there in the new version, but he is a big hulking dangerous brute regardless of whether he's a good guy.

The name and look alone are enough to give that sweet, sweet high.

[Michsi]

Popularity, especially for western fans.
And at this point, it's nostalgia.

You keep digging into specific aspects of the film and characterization that are often superficially different, not to mention the BTS stuff which no one but hardcore geeks care or know about. Yes, Broly's sadism isn't there in the new version, but he is a big hulking dangerous brute regardless of whether he's a good guy.

The name is practically nostalgic enough.

I've had a certain image of Broly for 20 years and I see practically nothing of that in this new version. Basically the feeling of familiarity, which is what nostalgia hinges on, just isn't there.

[Skar]

While what he did with Broly might not be innovative, the fact that he practically rewrote his character to the point only the barest hint of the original remained kinda speaks against the nostalgia aspect.

Toriyama flatout said Broly's popularity in Japan and overseas as a reason why his editor suggested using him in the next movie. DBS Broly wasn't a risk with an obscure character to see if he could have more success being rebooted. It's a new spin on one of the most popular antagonists while retaining almost everything that made him popular.

Toriyama and everyone else involved are pretty honest about their intentions when they talk about fan service and bringing back popular characters. There are also all the callbacks to iconic moments from the original that don't serve a purpose other than invoking nostalgia. This isn't really a phenomenon exclusive to Dragon Ball since that's the intention of every revival that brings back a series decades after it ended.