New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:13 pm

you could also just do them during extended filler time, like during one of original dragon ball's mini filler arcs or like z movie 1 during the saiyan training stuff or whatever. i think going by when they came out works a lot better, but you could also do it that way.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:31 pm

DBZ Movie One is a retelling of the Raditz arc. Buruma and the gang probably first learn of Gohan's existence at Kame House, like in the series.

Watching it before the Raditz arc makes little sense, and if anything does a disservice to the audience.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:48 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:31 pm
DBZ Movie One is a retelling of the Raditz arc. Buruma and the gang probably first learn of Gohan's existence at Kame House, like in the series.

Watching it before the Raditz arc makes little sense, and if anything does a disservice to the audience.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that everyone here has seen the series, so I fail to see how it is a disservice to anyone participating in this rewatch.
Personally I vote to just watch the movies when they came out. I think the fans put far more thought into timeline placement for the Movies than anyone at Toei ever did.
The point is to give things a flow. It's all about the experience, so why stop things in the middle of the battle against the Ginyu Tokusentai to watch the Bardock Special? What sense does it make to watch DB Movie 1 during the Red Ribbon Army arc? Point is that we're not bound by release schedules so why not experiment and try to give DB the best viewing experience? Watching the films around the time they aired feels completely random, like watching Mystical Adventure in the middle of the Piccolo Daimao arc. The tones are completely different.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:38 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:02 pm
It's 2019 and I've been a fan of DB since 1991. I know the movie can't possibly fit in the timeline, but the place where it makes most sense and approximates the time period when the film is supposedly set in is CLEARLY meant to be before Raditz arrives.
I think it all really depends on why you're participating in this. Is it to rewatch everything, or is it to rewatch everything and try and approximate what the Japanese audience went through? If it's the latter, then yeah seeing a retelling of an earlier arc that also contradicts it all IS weird, but that is what happened at the time.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:00 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:48 pm
[What sense does it make to watch DB Movie 1 during the Red Ribbon Army arc?
By the same token why watch DB movie 1 directly after the first thirteen when its just gonna feel tedious and essentially rewatching what you just saw compressed to 50 minutes with nicer animation?

I personally would prefer watching it in the middle of the pirate cave stuff since that crap is a boring slog and something as a break would help. Others probably woul disagree.

Dragon Ball movie 2 is really only recreating episode 13-15 but I think its kids gothic horror aesthetic makes it a nice companion piece for the Baba episodes and her Universal horror movie monsters.
Point is that we're not bound by release schedules so why not experiment and try to give DB the best viewing experience? Watching the films around the time they aired feels completely random, like watching Mystical Adventure in the middle of the Piccolo Daimao arc. The tones are completely different.
No but there isn’t going to be a universally agreed best time to watch these side stories that don’t fit in the main timeline in the first place.

Especially stuff like Z movie 3 and 4 which is “sometime when they’re suppose to be on Namek, but ya know, not”

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:32 pm

I personally would prefer watching it in the middle of the pirate cave stuff since that crap is a boring slog and something as a break would help. Others probably woul disagree.
Because it ruins the narrative flow, and even though Movie 2 might be a compliment tone and feel wise to Fortune Smeller :wink: Baba's Tournament, character-wise, it feels odd to have Goku and Kuririn's solid friendship backtracked. Someone suggested waiting to the end of DB and watching the first three DB movies one after the other as they kinda work as their own separate continuity.
No but there isn’t going to be a universally agreed best time to watch these side stories that don’t fit in the main timeline in the first place.
True, which is why I think it's interesting to experiement with the order of big franchises. I like playing around with the order I watch Star Wars and the Buffyverse. However, I draw the line at randomness, especially when it's in the middle of a fight or a story.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:36 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:32 pm
Someone suggested waiting to the end of DB and watching the first three DB movies one after the other as they kinda work as their own separate continuity.

That’s not a bad idea the Dragon Ball movies do function as a trilogy so watching them all after Dragon Ball and before Z would work.

Or even after the last episode with Goku as a child as a final hurrah to Goku being a kid until GT.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:13 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:48 pm
The point is to give things a flow. It's all about the experience, so why stop things in the middle of the battle against the Ginyu Tokusentai to watch the Bardock Special? What sense does it make to watch DB Movie 1 during the Red Ribbon Army arc? Point is that we're not bound by release schedules so why not experiment and try to give DB the best viewing experience? Watching the films around the time they aired feels completely random, like watching Mystical Adventure in the middle of the Piccolo Daimao arc. The tones are completely different.
An "experience" doesn't necessarily mean that things have to "flow". I think "we interrupt your regularly scheduled broadcast..." etc. can be an experience unto itself. That's how I view the TV specials. It's just another kind of experience.

As for the movies, I agree that the tones are different and release dates random, but that's the point. The films are meant to be viewed separately from the series, independent of whatever is happening on the show. I think viewers, especially in a rewatch would be able to make that distinction in their minds. Otherwise, I agree the idea of watching the movies together at a later point might work.

You say you draw the line at randomness when rewatching other series, but would that include things like network hiatuses? For me if I were rewatching an older series and knew that there was originally a six-week break between episodes, I think that I would try and preserve that experience as closely as possible.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:41 pm

It's an obnoxious experience. If you don't have to deal with the interruption, why go through it? I see them not as interruptions but as extended flashbacks (forwards?) and supplements to the main story.
You say you draw the line at randomness when rewatching other series, but would that include things like network hiatuses? For me if I were rewatching an older series and knew that there was originally a six-week break between episodes, I think that I would try and preserve that experience as closely as possible.
But why? Do you take a few months off between seasons when rewatching a show to preserve the experience of watching it as it aired? Do you take a few minutes between acts to preserve the feeling of stepping away for commercial breaks? Watching it like that feels like chasing some nostalgic high.

I try to find the most enjoyable way to watch a series that makes it flow and gives me organic stopping points, even for a serialized show.

I understand the movies were to be viewed separate from the series but by fans already familiar with the story, I get where you're coming from, but much of the randomness of when they were released in relation to the episodes / manga has to do with the nature of how the story was being produced. Toriyama didn't concern himself with the anime, and the anime didn't know what he where he was going with the story, so the films had to work independent of the manga. Then there's the issue of the turnaround of film vs. TV vs. weekly manga. It's not like The X-Files, for instance, where the writer(s) of the film and the TV show were one in the same. He knew where the series the movie were going so he could plan the stories accordingly.
Last edited by ABED on Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:54 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:41 pm
It's an obnoxious experience. If you don't have to deal with the interruption, why go through it?
I mean at that point you may as well skip the filler stuff too since they contribute nothing to the story and do nothing but hold the floor until the manga has written new material, but that's not the point of the watchalong.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:03 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:54 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:41 pm
It's an obnoxious experience. If you don't have to deal with the interruption, why go through it?
I mean at that point you may as well skip the filler stuff too since they contribute nothing to the story and do nothing but hold the floor until the manga has written new material, but that's not the point of the watchalong.
And that's a perfectly valid choice, but at least the filler has the benefit of being part of the show. The interruptions aren't. The point of a watch along is to WATCH. I still watch the filler as I don't have aversion to filler like many do. I like much of it, and I'm a completionist.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:44 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:41 pm
You say you draw the line at randomness when rewatching other series, but would that include things like network hiatuses? For me if I were rewatching an older series and knew that there was originally a six-week break between episodes, I think that I would try and preserve that experience as closely as possible.
But why? Do you take a few months off between seasons when rewatching a show to preserve the experience of watching it as it aired? Do you take a few minutes between acts to preserve the feeling of stepping away for commercial breaks? Watching it like that feels like chasing some nostalgic high.
It's because I think that the breaks contributed to the overall experience and how the story was viewed. Watching some big plot twist or shocking character reveal and then going on hiatus leaves an impression on the audience that then affects how they view the next chapter of the story. Whether it's anticipation, or whatever mindset you're in while watching the episode, the breaks help shape that. I'm sure many of the writers must have taken the hiatuses into consideration when crafting those episodes back in the day. There's also what happens in a viewer's life during the hiatus that affects how they see the next episodes.

That's only one type of rewatch though, as there are many others. And really, it might apply more to those that have never seen the shows before and are watching years after airing.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:11 pm

I'm sure many of the writers must have taken the hiatuses into consideration when crafting those episodes back in the day.
Yes, that's EXACTLY why they did it. They have commercial breaks so they end on mini cliffhangers to keep audiences hooked during the commercial break. They have the summer off so they end on a cliffhanger to keep them interested for the length of time between seasons. I understand the reasons for their choices, but you can't get that experience of watching it like. I fail to see what that has to do with this issue. Unless you want commercial breaks, and for this rewatch to literally take a decade to complete so we can experience as close to the way it was released in JPN.

Seeing as how we can't possibly experience the series in the same way, why try? And is anyone here watching the series for the first time? I don't think so, so that's a moo point.
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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by Witty User Name » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:46 am

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:05 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:37 am
I would participate if I wasn't invested in reading all the manga first! But I will read the future discussions, sure.
I was actually thinking it'd be interesting to try and replicate a compressed approximation of the manga/anime reading/watching experience. Read the manga and watch the show + movies in offset parallel! And of course there are a lot of points where both the manga and anime took some time off.

...not that I could do it since I don't own the original Z, haha.
You don't own the Z portion of the manga?

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:48 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:46 am
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:05 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:37 am
I would participate if I wasn't invested in reading all the manga first! But I will read the future discussions, sure.
I was actually thinking it'd be interesting to try and replicate a compressed approximation of the manga/anime reading/watching experience. Read the manga and watch the show + movies in offset parallel! And of course there are a lot of points where both the manga and anime took some time off.

...not that I could do it since I don't own the original Z, haha.
You don't the Z portion of the manga?
Not in its entirety, I only have the English Full Color version that goes up to the end of Frieza. But I was actually referring to the anime, where I only own the original Kai. I never watched the original show in "real time" as it came out and as someone hurtling into the 30 years barrier, I've little time to dedicate towards an anime that has a lot of unimportant filler sections and an awful dub.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by Witty User Name » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:00 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:48 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:46 am
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:05 am

I was actually thinking it'd be interesting to try and replicate a compressed approximation of the manga/anime reading/watching experience. Read the manga and watch the show + movies in offset parallel! And of course there are a lot of points where both the manga and anime took some time off.

...not that I could do it since I don't own the original Z, haha.
You don't the Z portion of the manga?
Not in its entirety, I only have the English Full Color version that goes up to the end of Frieza. But I was actually referring to the anime, where I only own the original Kai. I never watched the original show in "real time" as it came out and as someone hurtling into the 30 years barrier, I've little time to dedicate towards an anime that has a lot of unimportant filler sections and an awful dub.
Sorry, I misread you. But if you don't enjoy the original anime much, I definitely reccomend you buy the manga. It's much faster paced, a lot better in general, and better than even Kai. If you have the time/money, of course.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:04 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:00 am
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:48 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:46 am

You don't the Z portion of the manga?
Not in its entirety, I only have the English Full Color version that goes up to the end of Frieza. But I was actually referring to the anime, where I only own the original Kai. I never watched the original show in "real time" as it came out and as someone hurtling into the 30 years barrier, I've little time to dedicate towards an anime that has a lot of unimportant filler sections and an awful dub.
Sorry, I misread you. But if you don't enjoy the original anime much, I definitely reccomend you buy the manga. It's much faster paced, a lot better in general, and better than even Kai. If you have the time/money, of course.
I mean, I've bought and read the Full Colours and enjoyed them A LOT, sooo...

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by Witty User Name » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:32 am

Don't wait for the release of the rest of the damn Full Colour manga, just go ahead and read the arcs you haven't in whatever format. Just a suggestion, of course. If you wanna go any further take this to PM 'cause we're straying far too off-topic here.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:49 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:32 am
Don't wait for the release of the rest of the damn Full Colour manga, just go ahead and read the arcs you haven't in whatever format. Just a suggestion, of course. If you wanna go any further take this to PM 'cause we're straying far too off-topic here.
I'd buy 'em digitally if I wanted to, the problem is money.

Aaaaaand that concludes the off-topic portion of this thread.

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Re: New Year's complete Dragon Ball rewatch

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:18 pm

Rewatch thread #1 opens tomorrow, guys. :)

I look forward to seeing you all there as we discuss episodes 1-5. I'll see if I can dig up some trivia and other fun stuff to put in the OP. And I'm thinking I'll try putting together a roundup of all the filler too, if I can.
anubisj wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:44 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:39 pm
DBZ Movie 1 comes before before DBZ episode 1 since no one has met Gohan yet and he's completely untrained.
Yeah but aside from wanting to see the first episodes of DBZ before a movie, there's a few inconsistencies, like Krillin not knowing Gohan in the series, even though he meets him in the movie.
Agreed. DB episode 153 should be followed by DBZ episode 1. Not only will we all want to go straight from DB 153 to Z 1 (right?), personally I think the inconsistencies feel less glaring if you watch it slightly out of order, and put the movie at least a few episodes after that.
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:02 pm
It's 2019 and I've been a fan of DB since 1991. I know the movie can't possibly fit in the timeline, but the place where it makes most sense and approximates the time period when the film is supposedly set in is CLEARLY meant to be before Raditz arrives.
Yes. Though I think in terms of flow for a casual viewing order, it feels right to put it after Goku dies.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:11 pm
PremiumSalt wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:38 pm
Personally I vote to just watch the movies when they came out. I think the fans put far more thought into timeline placement for the Movies than anyone at Toei ever did.
This x1,000,000. Toei clearly doesn’t think too hard about it the movies are just side stories divorced from the current goings on of the show to be as accessible as possible
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:48 pm
The point is to give things a flow. It's all about the experience, so why stop things in the middle of the battle against the Ginyu Tokusentai to watch the Bardock Special? What sense does it make to watch DB Movie 1 during the Red Ribbon Army arc? Point is that we're not bound by release schedules so why not experiment and try to give DB the best viewing experience? Watching the films around the time they aired feels completely random, like watching Mystical Adventure in the middle of the Piccolo Daimao arc. The tones are completely different.
Yeah, basically. It doesn't really matter where the movies go. Only reason I'm really worrying about it is I want to put them in good places for the flow of a viewing order. They don't fit in the timeline (except for the specials and the Hildegarn movie), so where you watch them doesn't really matter. :)
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:56 pm
I wouldn't watch it exactly the date of release. Watch the movies closer to the period when they obstensibly take place, but also don't ruin the flow of the story. For instance
DB Movie 1 - after DB episode 13. It is after all a retelling of the first 13 episodes.
DB Movie 3 - before the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
Bardock special - Right after Ginyu's defeat. It works as a great tee up for the final battle against Freeza
DBZ movie 2 - After DBZ episode 35
Good suggestions. I haven't completely figured out where I'll put the movies, but I think definitely there should be some space between a movie and the story it retells, so while DB movie 1 will obviously go after DB episode 13, more specifically I'll probably put it after the 21st Tenkaichi, or in the Red Ribbon arc, after the gang go to the amusement park, when Goku and Bulma are about to set off together (as I said in my previous post, this puts it close to release, but between story beats).

DB movie 3 should not go before the 22nd Tenkaichi, since it sort of recaps/follows the events of that arc. Why would we watch Tenshinhan's journey to good in that movie before we watch it in the anime?
I think DB movie 2 neatly fits somewhere around there, but 3 is hard to place. Maybe I'll put it during Goku's training with God on the lookout.

DBZ movie 2 could go after Z episode 35. I think movie 1 probably goes during the training filler in the Saiyan arc, which neatly opens up 2 to go right after #35. Though that does raise the question of where 3 goes. It'd feel weird to put that after Goku's transformation to Super Saiyan.
ABED wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:56 pm
I would watch the 10th anniversary special after GT is completed or after the RRA is defeated.
Personally, I'm thinking of putting that between the two story arcs of GT; either after episode 40 (the end of the Baby arc), or after episode 41 (the breather episode between the Baby and Super #17 arcs). It sort of ties into the GT special to see Goku's departure from Mt. Paozu, and then Goku Jr.'s journey to Mt. Paozu. So, it might work to put those two right next to each other.
In general though, it's clearly a movie made during the run of GT (art style, music, sense of pacing and style, etc.), so it'd be jarring to put it before GT.

I appreciate your suggestions, though. :)
anubisj wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:25 pm
-Gurumes: After the Pilaf saga
-Tao & Shen: After the 22nd Tenkaichi saga
Again, I'd rather not follow a story up with its movie retelling so quickly. Too repetitive.
anubisj wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:25 pm
-Goku Jr: After some time in the Shadow Dragons saga
I'd rather not interrupt the flow of the Evil Dragons arc with that special. I think it's much better to leave it where it is, between episodes 41 and 42.
anubisj wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:25 pm
-Lucifer: After the 21st Tenkaichi saga
-Garlic Jr: After the Saiyan saga
-Dr. Wheelo: After the Saiyan saga
-Turles: After the Saiyan saga
-Slug: After the Frieza saga
-Cooler: After the Frieza saga
-Bardock: After the Frieza saga
-Metal Cooler: After the Cell saga
-Android 13: After the Cell saga
-Broly: After Cell saga
-Bojack: After Cell saga
-Future: After the Cell saga
-Broly 2nd: After Buu saga
-Bio-Broly: After Buu saga
-Janemba: After Buu saga
-Hirudegarn: After Buu saga
Good suggestions. :)

Personally, I'm thinking Gurumes goes right after the 21st Tenkaichi, Lucifer goes right after Red Ribbon, Tenshinhan goes after Piccolo Daimao's defeat (but before the 23rd Tenkaichi), Garlic Jr goes during the Saiyan training filler, Dr Wheelo goes after the Saiyan arc, Tree Of Might... Maybe that goes during the filler to Namek?... Bardock probably fits exactly where it was originally broadcast, though we could move it to right after the Ginyus were defeated. Slugg, Coola, Metal Coola, and #13 I have no idea about. Broly goes during the pre-Cell Games grace period, I think. Perhaps the Trunks special could go there too, if not in its original place. It could also go right after Cell appears. The one and only place Bojack fits is really just after the Cell arc, but before the Afterlife tournament. Broly 2 and 3 really have to go during the Boo arc. The Fusion/Janemba one, I have no idea about. Hildegarn, I'd put right after Z episode 288. It's the last chilled-out epilogue to the actual Boo arc time period, and the Hildegarn movie fits nicely right after it. Then we go straight into the end of Z epilogue after that.
Then Goku Jr and the 10th anniversary movie go between the Baby and Super #17 arcs.
anubisj wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:25 pm
I would omit the 10th anniversary movie, but feel free to discuss it of course; if you are going to watch it, I suggest after GT though. And the above are just estimates, maybe it's better if we see them after certain moments in each saga, instead of when the saga is done.
Definitely not omitting that. If we're gonna find a place for the shitty Slugg and Coola movies, we're finding a place for this wonderful thing, goddammit!! :lol:

After GT isn't a bad idea, in theory... Though honestly, I'd rather we let GT episode 64 sit as the definitive end. It's sort of a perfect conclusion, whereas the 10th anniversary movie almost by its very nature feels like a new beginning. Perhaps by that logic, it might make sense to put it before GT? Like, put the 10th anniversary right between Z 291 and GT 1. Might work.
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