I used to be an animator, so the difference between the two is very important to me, and thus the confusion that animation is also the drawings/lighting/modelling/whatever can be very frustrating!
Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 1 - DB Episodes 1-5
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KBABZ
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Sorry for being this late to the Party it had its reasons but now i´m ready and would still like to contribute to the past Weeks of this Rewatch, while i did rewatch the first 5 Episodes during the the first Week i got to watch Eps 6 to 15 only recently and now i write down here my observations of the German Dub of those episodes before following into the currently Week.
Before we begin i give you some info about the German Dub:
The German Dub of DB/DBZ was based on the French Dub like severall other European Dubs of the Series, which resulted in missing scenes that had already been cut in the French Dub because of Censorship and lots of toned down or changed dialogue. The German Dub had those Dialogue Changes for the first 53 episodes and also the Kamehame and Kinto-Un had germanices Names during that time, but from episode 54 onwards, the German Manga was used as a source for Canon Material scenes and also the Kamehameha and Kinto-Un got their German Manga Names back (in case of Kinto-Un, it was translated as Jindujun in the German Manga) At some Points there were even some added TV Cuts for Germany which became very numerous during the later Z Episodes and even the early stuff wasent spared during reruns, but luckely as far as i know the German DVDs atleast only contain the French Cuts with the Exception of two Buu Arc episodes which got some slighty Cuts for the DVD release but they are still way less cut then the Version of them that was shown on TV. Also One peculiarity about the German Dub is that both the Pre Z and Z Portion had a different Voice Cast each, because the Studio was changed after DB Episode 153. The pre Z Portion was dubbed in Köln by studio "Splendid Synchron GmbH" while the Z Portion was dubbed in Berlin by the now defunct studio "MME Studios GmbH", i will refer to both these German Dubs as the Splendid Dub and MME Dub during these rewatch Threads here. The German Episodes i am Watching for this Rewatch have been reedited from myself to add the missing scenes back in as well as restoring all the missing Insert Songs, adding the japanese Endings and swapping the own German Made Opening for the Pre Z Episodes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1Yupk77pA) with the German Version of Makafushigi Adventure used for DB Movies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1Yupk77pA).
My contribution in this Rewatch will consist off an small opinion of the Episode itself aswell as comparing the German Dialogue between the Anime and Manga and listing the differences here, so let us begin:
Episode 1 - Bulma and Son Goku, aired on 26th February 1986
Ger Title: The Secret of the Dragon Balls, aired on 30th August 1999
The First Episode of Dragon Ball was a really great start for the Anime and a spot on adaption of Manga Chapter 1, i still remeber back in 1999 when i was 4 and it first aired on RTL II, i dont quite remember how much i paid attention to the Episode back then but the spikey Haired Boy in the dark Blue Outfit and the Light Blue Haired Girl were still very memorable for me and i still remember that my Brother and some of his Friends were watching alongside on that day. The Filler Portion with the infamous Sabertouth Tiger is very well intergrated and shows how those dangerous Animals are just a fun little game for the strong little Goku, and the Pilaf stuff here is also not bad and sets these three up early on as the Final Boss for this first DB Hunt, but it is a bit weird that Mai has to tell Pilaf about how the DBs work, which serves only to swap Bulmas Exposition of them to her and implys a bit that the Blue Dwarf might have only got very recently the knowledge of the DBs and took very poor research at that. Animation Wise the Episode is also a strong start for the Series and has a very nice look to it, Maeda and his Team really made sure that the Series would make a good first impression. The only thing here i had to complain about somewhat is the completly Missing star from the One Star Dragon Ball when Pilaf finds it, i really don´t know what went wrong there, did they forgot how many Stars in was sopposed to have and left it blank instead of just looking at the later Manga Chapter with Pilaf? There is also a shot from the Four Star Ball where one Star is misplaced, but that dosen´t bother me much and would be nitpicking. When it comes to the German Dub i personally like the Voices Actors here, of course they are no comparioson to Nozawa and Co. but still think they did a very solid Job with the Characters, considering they had to work with the French script during Filler segments and a good chunk of Manga Material.
Now i will compare the Dialogue side of things in German Dragon Ball for both the Manga and Anime, one trait about the German translation for both the Anime and Manga is that Goku, Gohan and Goten are for the are pretty much always called by there Full names as Son-Goku, Son-Gohan and Son-Goten. There are some exeptions in the Manga where Goku is actually called as just Goku which happens just very few times while Grampa Gohan is called in atleast one instance as just Gohan in both the Anime and Manga and for Goten there is one Instance too were Chichi says just Goten. It is of course not really the right way to refer to this characters but thats how we Germans got to know them and were used to call them that way. The German Kai and Super Dubs however did change this trait so that the male Son Family Members are now mostly always reffered to as Goku, Gohan and Goten while ther Full Names are rarely spoken which is personally pretty jarring to me and clashes with the German Manga which never got a retranslation as well as the pre Z Anime Material that never got the Kai treatment, the German Dubs of the newer Movies BOG and RF (can´t speak for Super Broli) and now even the German Translation of Dragon Ball Z Kakarot which is still using this Son Fullname trait. I would have been ok with these Change if there actually was an consistent way you could watch or read the Full Series with it, but in that incomplete state it has been done, it just falls flat for me. But enough of that, now let´s compare the Dialogue of Episode 1:
Note: Manga Dialogue will be italic while Anime Text will ne underlined
Trivia
* The Scenes where Goku lifts Bulmas Skirt and where Bulma shows Goku her Pantys were cut in the RTL II TV Version.
Phew now i´m finally done and lots of hours have gone by it´s even already the next day long in the Morning and getting closer to the forenoon. I really had overestimated how long such an in dept comparison would take, and because of that i´ll make it a lot simpler for the following episodes of the rewatch and just compare the more noteworthy stuff or so, otherwise i surely will never catch up with you Guys. But that dosen´t mean that i will never continue this indept comparison, that stuff might be worth it´s very own thread so if I have someday a very lots of time i might continue it. But i´ll go to Bed for now, see you later guys
Before we begin i give you some info about the German Dub:
The German Dub of DB/DBZ was based on the French Dub like severall other European Dubs of the Series, which resulted in missing scenes that had already been cut in the French Dub because of Censorship and lots of toned down or changed dialogue. The German Dub had those Dialogue Changes for the first 53 episodes and also the Kamehame and Kinto-Un had germanices Names during that time, but from episode 54 onwards, the German Manga was used as a source for Canon Material scenes and also the Kamehameha and Kinto-Un got their German Manga Names back (in case of Kinto-Un, it was translated as Jindujun in the German Manga) At some Points there were even some added TV Cuts for Germany which became very numerous during the later Z Episodes and even the early stuff wasent spared during reruns, but luckely as far as i know the German DVDs atleast only contain the French Cuts with the Exception of two Buu Arc episodes which got some slighty Cuts for the DVD release but they are still way less cut then the Version of them that was shown on TV. Also One peculiarity about the German Dub is that both the Pre Z and Z Portion had a different Voice Cast each, because the Studio was changed after DB Episode 153. The pre Z Portion was dubbed in Köln by studio "Splendid Synchron GmbH" while the Z Portion was dubbed in Berlin by the now defunct studio "MME Studios GmbH", i will refer to both these German Dubs as the Splendid Dub and MME Dub during these rewatch Threads here. The German Episodes i am Watching for this Rewatch have been reedited from myself to add the missing scenes back in as well as restoring all the missing Insert Songs, adding the japanese Endings and swapping the own German Made Opening for the Pre Z Episodes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1Yupk77pA) with the German Version of Makafushigi Adventure used for DB Movies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1Yupk77pA).
My contribution in this Rewatch will consist off an small opinion of the Episode itself aswell as comparing the German Dialogue between the Anime and Manga and listing the differences here, so let us begin:
Episode 1 - Bulma and Son Goku, aired on 26th February 1986
Ger Title: The Secret of the Dragon Balls, aired on 30th August 1999
The First Episode of Dragon Ball was a really great start for the Anime and a spot on adaption of Manga Chapter 1, i still remeber back in 1999 when i was 4 and it first aired on RTL II, i dont quite remember how much i paid attention to the Episode back then but the spikey Haired Boy in the dark Blue Outfit and the Light Blue Haired Girl were still very memorable for me and i still remember that my Brother and some of his Friends were watching alongside on that day. The Filler Portion with the infamous Sabertouth Tiger is very well intergrated and shows how those dangerous Animals are just a fun little game for the strong little Goku, and the Pilaf stuff here is also not bad and sets these three up early on as the Final Boss for this first DB Hunt, but it is a bit weird that Mai has to tell Pilaf about how the DBs work, which serves only to swap Bulmas Exposition of them to her and implys a bit that the Blue Dwarf might have only got very recently the knowledge of the DBs and took very poor research at that. Animation Wise the Episode is also a strong start for the Series and has a very nice look to it, Maeda and his Team really made sure that the Series would make a good first impression. The only thing here i had to complain about somewhat is the completly Missing star from the One Star Dragon Ball when Pilaf finds it, i really don´t know what went wrong there, did they forgot how many Stars in was sopposed to have and left it blank instead of just looking at the later Manga Chapter with Pilaf? There is also a shot from the Four Star Ball where one Star is misplaced, but that dosen´t bother me much and would be nitpicking. When it comes to the German Dub i personally like the Voices Actors here, of course they are no comparioson to Nozawa and Co. but still think they did a very solid Job with the Characters, considering they had to work with the French script during Filler segments and a good chunk of Manga Material.
Now i will compare the Dialogue side of things in German Dragon Ball for both the Manga and Anime, one trait about the German translation for both the Anime and Manga is that Goku, Gohan and Goten are for the are pretty much always called by there Full names as Son-Goku, Son-Gohan and Son-Goten. There are some exeptions in the Manga where Goku is actually called as just Goku which happens just very few times while Grampa Gohan is called in atleast one instance as just Gohan in both the Anime and Manga and for Goten there is one Instance too were Chichi says just Goten. It is of course not really the right way to refer to this characters but thats how we Germans got to know them and were used to call them that way. The German Kai and Super Dubs however did change this trait so that the male Son Family Members are now mostly always reffered to as Goku, Gohan and Goten while ther Full Names are rarely spoken which is personally pretty jarring to me and clashes with the German Manga which never got a retranslation as well as the pre Z Anime Material that never got the Kai treatment, the German Dubs of the newer Movies BOG and RF (can´t speak for Super Broli) and now even the German Translation of Dragon Ball Z Kakarot which is still using this Son Fullname trait. I would have been ok with these Change if there actually was an consistent way you could watch or read the Full Series with it, but in that incomplete state it has been done, it just falls flat for me. But enough of that, now let´s compare the Dialogue of Episode 1:
Note: Manga Dialogue will be italic while Anime Text will ne underlined
Spoiler:
* The Scenes where Goku lifts Bulmas Skirt and where Bulma shows Goku her Pantys were cut in the RTL II TV Version.
Phew now i´m finally done and lots of hours have gone by it´s even already the next day long in the Morning and getting closer to the forenoon. I really had overestimated how long such an in dept comparison would take, and because of that i´ll make it a lot simpler for the following episodes of the rewatch and just compare the more noteworthy stuff or so, otherwise i surely will never catch up with you Guys. But that dosen´t mean that i will never continue this indept comparison, that stuff might be worth it´s very own thread so if I have someday a very lots of time i might continue it. But i´ll go to Bed for now, see you later guys
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
So now let´s continue, for the remaining Episodes i´ll will take a much simpler approach when it comes to comparing the differences from the German Dub and Manga by making Key Points for just the more noteworthy stuff that was changes in the German Dub. So let us begin:
Episode 2 - Ararara–! No Balls!, aired on 5th of March 1986
Ger Title: The search begins, aired on 31th August 1999
The second episode of Dragon Ball is also a very solid one, which highlights greatly from what wholly different worlds Goku and Bulma come from, and their overall interactions as well a Goku´ reations towards "modern" technology is allways fun to watch. This Pilaf Filler Stuff here is also entertaining and it´s pretty neat that they incorperated Goku´s off Panel hunt into it which gets nicely fleshed out in here. But it´s also a bit on the unessary side of filler and could be argued that´s it somwhat pointless, since Shu and Mai came here pretty much for nothing and do not even provide an obstacle for Gokus Food hunt in anyway. But i think it´s still a nice little adition and an good opportunity for Goku to show off more of his skills on those fodder Wolfes and poor Shu and Mai. In terms of animation and looks it turned out still very solid, but is here more on the cheaper side with some of the cheaper animation tricks during the Wolf Filler section. Not as good as the first episode Visually, but Tomekichi Takeuchi and his team did still a good job here.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* Even though the Episode is visually uncut the dialogue had been altered during several parts of the episode mostly those with the naughty content, for exsample Bulma dosen´t say Goku that he should cover his little willy with the towel but instead gives him a small "lecture" about soap...
* Bulma still freaks out about Goku´s Tail being real but in this Dub she questions it more how Goku can even move it with Goku replying that she does move her limbs an fingers too and aks her back how she does that. The stuff about her never having seen a naked Man is also changed to her realizing that she never had questioned it how she can even move herself, and that it must be just like that with Goku´s tail.
* During Bulmas bathing scene, instead of asking her why Girls have a butt on their chest, he simple want´s to return the favor and wash her which she dosen´t like either for obvious reasons. Goku questions why she did wash him then and she replies with thats it´s something different with him being a little Boy and her a young Woman. Goku still didn´t got what she means and she questions if his Grampa hasen´t teached him about that little children should listen to Adults, with which Goku replies that he is no little Child anymore, and then Bulma aks him about his age which is still 14 here (acording to his "Math skills")..
* Even the conversation about Goku´s Parents got slighty altered, instead of him not knowing if they are still alive he says that they are gone since a long time ago, also he dosen´t say anything about being found as a baby by Grampa Gohan in the Moutains but just that his Grampa was there for him and taught him everything as well as raising him...
* The most dialogue changes were made during the infamous Panty Scene where the following dialogue exchange happens after Goku removed her Pantys:
Goku: Ahhhh! I hope she´s not dead!
Bulma: (wakes up and screams): Bwaaaa! Who´s dead!? What?
Goku: Ahhhh now her Ghost speaks, please don´t hurt me!
Bulma: What? A Ghost here inside the house?! (runs towards the table) Ahhh the Dragon Balls hopefully nobody stole them! (takes the balls outside the bag and is relived) Thank God, they're all still where they were, but how can you scare me like that!?
* The Turtle had been changed to be Female in the French Dub of DB/DBZ in both voice and dialogue, which caried over to the German Dub of the Series as well as the Z Movies while the pre Z Movies and Super (Kai probably too) kept him as male. Because of this change the Turtle dosen´t speak about being serparated from her group while searching for mushrooms but instead she came looking for mushrooms togehter with her female friends, who did suddenly disappear...
Episode 2 - Ararara–! No Balls!, aired on 5th of March 1986
Ger Title: The search begins, aired on 31th August 1999
The second episode of Dragon Ball is also a very solid one, which highlights greatly from what wholly different worlds Goku and Bulma come from, and their overall interactions as well a Goku´ reations towards "modern" technology is allways fun to watch. This Pilaf Filler Stuff here is also entertaining and it´s pretty neat that they incorperated Goku´s off Panel hunt into it which gets nicely fleshed out in here. But it´s also a bit on the unessary side of filler and could be argued that´s it somwhat pointless, since Shu and Mai came here pretty much for nothing and do not even provide an obstacle for Gokus Food hunt in anyway. But i think it´s still a nice little adition and an good opportunity for Goku to show off more of his skills on those fodder Wolfes and poor Shu and Mai. In terms of animation and looks it turned out still very solid, but is here more on the cheaper side with some of the cheaper animation tricks during the Wolf Filler section. Not as good as the first episode Visually, but Tomekichi Takeuchi and his team did still a good job here.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* Even though the Episode is visually uncut the dialogue had been altered during several parts of the episode mostly those with the naughty content, for exsample Bulma dosen´t say Goku that he should cover his little willy with the towel but instead gives him a small "lecture" about soap...
* Bulma still freaks out about Goku´s Tail being real but in this Dub she questions it more how Goku can even move it with Goku replying that she does move her limbs an fingers too and aks her back how she does that. The stuff about her never having seen a naked Man is also changed to her realizing that she never had questioned it how she can even move herself, and that it must be just like that with Goku´s tail.
* During Bulmas bathing scene, instead of asking her why Girls have a butt on their chest, he simple want´s to return the favor and wash her which she dosen´t like either for obvious reasons. Goku questions why she did wash him then and she replies with thats it´s something different with him being a little Boy and her a young Woman. Goku still didn´t got what she means and she questions if his Grampa hasen´t teached him about that little children should listen to Adults, with which Goku replies that he is no little Child anymore, and then Bulma aks him about his age which is still 14 here (acording to his "Math skills")..
* Even the conversation about Goku´s Parents got slighty altered, instead of him not knowing if they are still alive he says that they are gone since a long time ago, also he dosen´t say anything about being found as a baby by Grampa Gohan in the Moutains but just that his Grampa was there for him and taught him everything as well as raising him...
* The most dialogue changes were made during the infamous Panty Scene where the following dialogue exchange happens after Goku removed her Pantys:
Goku: Ahhhh! I hope she´s not dead!
Bulma: (wakes up and screams): Bwaaaa! Who´s dead!? What?
Goku: Ahhhh now her Ghost speaks, please don´t hurt me!
Bulma: What? A Ghost here inside the house?! (runs towards the table) Ahhh the Dragon Balls hopefully nobody stole them! (takes the balls outside the bag and is relived) Thank God, they're all still where they were, but how can you scare me like that!?
* The Turtle had been changed to be Female in the French Dub of DB/DBZ in both voice and dialogue, which caried over to the German Dub of the Series as well as the Z Movies while the pre Z Movies and Super (Kai probably too) kept him as male. Because of this change the Turtle dosen´t speak about being serparated from her group while searching for mushrooms but instead she came looking for mushrooms togehter with her female friends, who did suddenly disappear...
Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
So it pulls a Funimation and dances around the naughty stuff as much as possible?Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:12 pm
* Even though the Episode is visually uncut the dialogue had been altered during several parts of the episode mostly those with the naughty content, for exsample Bulma dosen´t say Goku that he should cover his little willy with the towel but instead gives him a small "lecture" about soap...
That’s pretty much what Funimation did in 1995 and 2001.* During Bulmas bathing scene, instead of asking her why Girls have a butt on their chest, he simple want´s to return the favor and wash her which she dosen´t like either for obvious reasons. Goku questions why she did wash him then and she replies with thats it´s something different with him being a little Boy and her a young Woman
So he just removes her panties and think she’s dead? Because she didn’t wake up to him taking her underwear off?* The most dialogue changes were made during the infamous Panty Scene where the following dialogue exchange happens after Goku removed her Pantys:
Goku: Ahhhh! I hope she´s not dead!
Bulma: (wakes up and screams): Bwaaaa! Who´s dead!? What?
Goku: Ahhhh now her Ghost speaks, please don´t hurt me!
Bulma: What? A Ghost here inside the house?! (runs towards the table) Ahhh the Dragon Balls hopefully nobody stole them! (takes the balls outside the bag and is relived) Thank God, they're all still where they were, but how can you scare me like that!?
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Yeah the French censors can get very weird at times who knows what they where thinking when they wrote these lines, but surely their number one priority was getting violent and sexual content out of the way and having logic second
Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Why not just remove the scene? LmaoDragon Sponge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:40 pmYeah the French censors can get very weird at times who knows what they where thinking when they wrote these lines, but surely their number one priority was getting violent and sexual content out of the way and having logic second
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Good Question but if I am not mistaken there have been some Versions of the French Dub who were more cut and some who were less, there might have been a more censored version of this episode where this scene was cut, but i´m not entirely sure.
But they did in faqt cut several perverted scenes with Roshi but also left some other ones intact for example in one scene were the turtle hermit aks her for Paff Paff in the original he aks her here instead to make him some cakes and she still hits him with a hammer
Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
I like how even though at this point the German dub was completely reliant on the French scripts it didn't have Goku answer by saying "I don't know! I'm my grandfather's grandson!"Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:47 am
Bulma: You´re pretty strong for being so small.
Bulma: Hey tell me, whats your name?
Goku: I know! My Grandfather did train me!
Goku: Oh, so my Grandfather has always called Son-Goku, and you?
Robo4900 wrote:Mouse is BRILLIANT SCIENTIST dumb.
CAT LOVES FOOD dumb.
Jack is just kinda dumb.Spoiler:
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
What a stupid change, how did they even get to know him as San-Goku then? Or did he tell them his name at another time or even better do they just know his name without explation later on?Danfun64 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:39 amI like how even though at this point the German dub was completely reliant on the French scripts it didn't have Goku answer by saying "I don't know! I'm my grandfather's grandson!"Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:47 am
Bulma: You´re pretty strong for being so small.
Bulma: Hey tell me, whats your name?
Goku: I know! My Grandfather did train me!
Goku: Oh, so my Grandfather has always called Son-Goku, and you?
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Episode 3 - Kame-Sen’nin’s Kinto-Un, aired on 12th of March 1986
Ger Title: The Lord of the Turtles, aired on 1th September 1999
Episode 3 is a great introduction for both the Turtle Hermit and the iconic Kinto-Un which became a great companion for Goku for a long time. The stuff here with Bulma and Roshi might be a bit difficult to judge but i personally do think it´s funny and is one of the better writen perverted scenes since Bulma herself is the one using her Body carelessly to get what she wants even before she did know that he has a Dragon Ball, which blows up in her face after she realizes what she actually showed him
The Subplot with the Pilaf Gang is also pretty enjoyable here, they are at there best when they interact as a trio anyway, and there antics at Roshis House is Fun stuff in it´s own right but the actuall star here is the Random Crocodile Sunbathing on Roshis Island, who is this Guy and in what relationship stands he with the Turtle Hermit? Sadly we will never know...
Animation wise this is another solid episode and the highlight here for me is clearly Goku Flying on Kinto-Un, it´s just a joy to watch.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* Bear Badits Dialogue is a bit toned down, he dosen´t say anything about killing them, but instead gives a more vague threat to Goku that it would get him extraordinarily bad if he dosen´t hands over the Turtle. Also his motivation of eating the Turtle is completly intact, he still says how tasty the Turtle looks and openly admits that Turtle´s are his favourite dish, even Goku asking the Turtle if she can be eaten is also kept. But still in the End of the Scene Bulmas last line has been altered to saying "Let´s go before he wakes up" implying that the Bear Bandit would be still alive...
* Tori Bot dosen´t refference Pinguin Village in both the German Manga and Dub but he still says entirely different things in both Versions. In the Manga he say´s "Guess who I am!" while in the Dub he say´s "Absolutly boring here!"
* The stuff with the imortal Phoenix is pretty acurate in both the Manga and Dub but suprisingly the Dub here is more acurate to the source materiall. In the German Manga the Turlte dosen´t say anything about tainted bird seed but just that the Bird is already long dead, while in the Dub the Turtle say´s that he died last year cause he ate tainted cheries. Also the Name is somewhat different in both versions. In the Manga he´s called the Bird of Imortallity while the Dub calls him Eternal Bird.
* The Kinto-Un stuff is is also still pretty acurate aside from the name Change to "Super Sonic Cloud" which remained until the Manga was used as source by the Dub writers after Episode 53, which is still pretty weird in my opinion since they seem to have already based certain stuff before on the German Manga like character Names, for example calling Yamcha, "Yamchu" like the German Manga did while he was still known as Yamcha in the French Dub, so why not name the cloud after the Manga too?
* The stuff with Bulma showing off her non-existent Pantys to Roshi had been famously cut, and i myself didn´t even know about that scene back then until i saw it way later in the Internet. The Scene got cut right after Roshis Sunclasses shine and resumes where Bulma aks what she can get, which was altered in the German Dub to asking if he can give her a cute (Boy)Friend as a present. Also cut were the scenes who Bulma flashes him again to get the Ball, where they depart from each other and where Bulma finds out about what Goku did with her Pantys as well as shooting him. The Cut starts right after Bulma thankt him for the Dragon Ball and resumes with the Pilaf Gang at Roshis House. The Funny thing is in the later scene after Bulma puts the House into the Capsule, the Bullet Spots can still be seen on Goku´s Back and he does even scratch it because if that...
Trivia
* The Picture of Arale Bulma has in House looks different here than it did before in Episode 2.
Ger Title: The Lord of the Turtles, aired on 1th September 1999
Episode 3 is a great introduction for both the Turtle Hermit and the iconic Kinto-Un which became a great companion for Goku for a long time. The stuff here with Bulma and Roshi might be a bit difficult to judge but i personally do think it´s funny and is one of the better writen perverted scenes since Bulma herself is the one using her Body carelessly to get what she wants even before she did know that he has a Dragon Ball, which blows up in her face after she realizes what she actually showed him
The Subplot with the Pilaf Gang is also pretty enjoyable here, they are at there best when they interact as a trio anyway, and there antics at Roshis House is Fun stuff in it´s own right but the actuall star here is the Random Crocodile Sunbathing on Roshis Island, who is this Guy and in what relationship stands he with the Turtle Hermit? Sadly we will never know...
Animation wise this is another solid episode and the highlight here for me is clearly Goku Flying on Kinto-Un, it´s just a joy to watch.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* Bear Badits Dialogue is a bit toned down, he dosen´t say anything about killing them, but instead gives a more vague threat to Goku that it would get him extraordinarily bad if he dosen´t hands over the Turtle. Also his motivation of eating the Turtle is completly intact, he still says how tasty the Turtle looks and openly admits that Turtle´s are his favourite dish, even Goku asking the Turtle if she can be eaten is also kept. But still in the End of the Scene Bulmas last line has been altered to saying "Let´s go before he wakes up" implying that the Bear Bandit would be still alive...
* Tori Bot dosen´t refference Pinguin Village in both the German Manga and Dub but he still says entirely different things in both Versions. In the Manga he say´s "Guess who I am!" while in the Dub he say´s "Absolutly boring here!"
* The stuff with the imortal Phoenix is pretty acurate in both the Manga and Dub but suprisingly the Dub here is more acurate to the source materiall. In the German Manga the Turlte dosen´t say anything about tainted bird seed but just that the Bird is already long dead, while in the Dub the Turtle say´s that he died last year cause he ate tainted cheries. Also the Name is somewhat different in both versions. In the Manga he´s called the Bird of Imortallity while the Dub calls him Eternal Bird.
* The Kinto-Un stuff is is also still pretty acurate aside from the name Change to "Super Sonic Cloud" which remained until the Manga was used as source by the Dub writers after Episode 53, which is still pretty weird in my opinion since they seem to have already based certain stuff before on the German Manga like character Names, for example calling Yamcha, "Yamchu" like the German Manga did while he was still known as Yamcha in the French Dub, so why not name the cloud after the Manga too?
* The stuff with Bulma showing off her non-existent Pantys to Roshi had been famously cut, and i myself didn´t even know about that scene back then until i saw it way later in the Internet. The Scene got cut right after Roshis Sunclasses shine and resumes where Bulma aks what she can get, which was altered in the German Dub to asking if he can give her a cute (Boy)Friend as a present. Also cut were the scenes who Bulma flashes him again to get the Ball, where they depart from each other and where Bulma finds out about what Goku did with her Pantys as well as shooting him. The Cut starts right after Bulma thankt him for the Dragon Ball and resumes with the Pilaf Gang at Roshis House. The Funny thing is in the later scene after Bulma puts the House into the Capsule, the Bullet Spots can still be seen on Goku´s Back and he does even scratch it because if that...
Trivia
* The Picture of Arale Bulma has in House looks different here than it did before in Episode 2.
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Episode 4 - The Kidnapping Demon, Oolong, aired on 19th of March 1986
Ger Title: The great Oolong , aired on 2th September 1999
Episode 4 gives a nice little Introduction to Oolong and his awesome Transforming skills which sadly became so non existent later on. It also has a solid little Story on its own with the seemingly fearsome Villain being just a little wimp in truth, the Highlight for me here is the Chase Sequence with Goku and Oolong where the very nice Music Piece I11 ? "Heated Pursuit has it´s first appearince. But also the Parts with Goku being dressed as a Girl and his war of words with Oolong is fun stuff. Animationwise the Episode is mostly pretty well made but also has it´s cheaper parts like the two Frame running animation for sideways Bull Oolong and also during the Flashback with Oolong where the Kid who´s running away just stands motionless in the pose of running while Oolong´s talking.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* During the Patt Patt scene, the Dialogue was changed so that instead of comenting that she is a Girl, Goku says she´s adorable and calls her "Kleine" which is the Female Version of small one in German. And when Bulma hit´s him on the head she yells "you don´t hit Girls" instead of just "leave it"
* When the Sherman Priest Guy describes Oolong, he calls him a Monster in the Ger Manga, while he calls him an Evil Spirit instead in the Dub which works better as an tranlations of Yokai in my opinion.
* Grandma Paozu is called Grandma Paozi in the Ger Manga while the Dub leaves out her Name completly, also the Patt Patt scene with her is still a bit changed but this time it´s a bit less with Goku saying to her "You´re a nice Girl" but Bulma still repeats her "You don´t hit Girls" stuff.
* The Scene with Bulma telling her Breast size and Oolong imagining doing Paff Paff is cut, also interestingly Bulma tells him in the Dub she turned 16 recently while she dosen´t tell her Age at all in the Ger Manga, but for some odd reason Oolong still knows here age there.
* The Scene where Robot Oolong comes back with his Soup, has some Dialogue changes, instead of threaten Goku to dunk him into his Soup and eating him, he instead says that he left the soup on the stove and says he and Goku should hurry up before the Soup gets cold. Goku then calls him a weird Guy and asks if he really want´s to eat the Soup with sticks after which the Part with the Finger Dipping happens.
* During the Part with the Bricks Breaking, Goku says in the Manga that he does it with the Pinkie Finger, which contradics the actual Drawings where we see him do it with his index Finger, while in the Dub he says that one Finger is enough.
* During the Part where they get reunited with the kidnapped Girls, Oolong says in the Manga "You can take them back, they let themselves be served and only want to live in Luxury." while he says in the Dub "I love pretty Girls and i felt so sorry for them so that i wanted to offer them a better life, i could never have hurt them."
Trivia:
* This Episode had some aditional Cuts during the RTL II Broadcasst in Germany, the Patt Patt scenes and Bulma hitting Goku were Cut as well as 28 Seconds during the Portion where they get reunited with the Girls. The Stuff that was cut there was how the Girls don´t wan´t to go home and Oolong explaining his Motivation for Kidnapping them.
Episode 5 - The Strong Villain of the Desert, Yamcha, aired on 26th of March 1986
Ger Title: Yamchu the Desert robber , aired on 3th September 1999
Episode 5 is another solid one, which gives a pretty cool intruduction to both Yamcha and Puar and also gives us the first Proper Martial Arts Fight where Goku has to actually try in a battle and also his Hunger Weakness is a nice idea to balance the overpowerd Monkey Boy a bit out with his weaker Opponents, also the Oolong stuff with the Pee Pee Candy is pretty Fun. And animationwise for the First Ebisawa Episode it actually dosen´t look all that bad, there are some weaker drawings with the typicall Studio Live pointy Chins, that mostly Yamcha and to some extend Bulma get here, but there ´re still more of the rounder drawings here in the Episode. In terms of Animation it is also overall solid exept for some rather cheap looking Moments during the Goku VS Yamcha Fight.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* When Goku Patt Patts Oolong he dosen´t say that he´s a Boy but instead instead he thinks that the Pig has too much Bacon (Speck in German) which means in this context that he says Oolong is Fat. The Pig replies with " I´m a Pig and a Pig has always bacon, but you don´t have to care about that is this clear!? So never touch me again!"
* When Bulma uses her Panty to lure Fish Oolong out of the Water she calls it the Bottom of her Bikini, so apparently Pantys are a lot more Family Friendly if you pass them of as swimwear...
* Instead of to threaten Oolong with eating him for Breakfast if he trys to run away again, Goku says in the Dub that there would be no Dinner for Oolong instead.
* The Pee Pee Candy is called Pillie Candy in the Ger Manga while it´s called the Magic Candy in the Dub instead, and when it comes for the Word to Trigger Oolongs diarrhea it´s just Pillie in the Manga but Magic Candy in the Dub.
* When Oolong transforms into a Panty he says before that he can transform into a Bathing Suit for Bulma, so in this context he transforms himself into an Bathing Suit that only covers the abdomen? Yeah very Kid Friendly indeed these French Dub Changes
* The Dialouge´s with Yamcha and Puar is a bit toned down, there isen´t any mention about killing them with the exeption of Puar yelling "Yaaaa Super! Today we get pork cutlets! pork cutlets!", so apparently speaking about turning Pigs into Food is still Kid Friendly in the Eyes of AB Groupe...
* When Puar speaks about his Past with Oolong in the Transformations Kindergarten, he just references it as Kindergarten and the Stuff with the Teacher and the Pantys was also a bit changed, Puar says there that Oolong got later kicked out of School cause he teased the Female Teacher even more than him, but it´s not said what the dirty Pig actually did in this Dub.
Trivia:
* This is one of the Episodes which got aditional Cuts, from RTL II, there is not a showcase of these Changes yet on "Schnittbericht.com" (https://www.schnittberichte.com/svds.ph ... el&ID=7688) but i still remember from a now defunct Web Site that the Scene where Goku pokes Yamcha in the Eyes was removed from the RTL II Broadcast.
* Yamcha and Puar are known as Yamchu and Pool in Germany and his Wolffang Fist is called Wolfs Technique here.
Ger Title: The great Oolong , aired on 2th September 1999
Episode 4 gives a nice little Introduction to Oolong and his awesome Transforming skills which sadly became so non existent later on. It also has a solid little Story on its own with the seemingly fearsome Villain being just a little wimp in truth, the Highlight for me here is the Chase Sequence with Goku and Oolong where the very nice Music Piece I11 ? "Heated Pursuit has it´s first appearince. But also the Parts with Goku being dressed as a Girl and his war of words with Oolong is fun stuff. Animationwise the Episode is mostly pretty well made but also has it´s cheaper parts like the two Frame running animation for sideways Bull Oolong and also during the Flashback with Oolong where the Kid who´s running away just stands motionless in the pose of running while Oolong´s talking.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* During the Patt Patt scene, the Dialogue was changed so that instead of comenting that she is a Girl, Goku says she´s adorable and calls her "Kleine" which is the Female Version of small one in German. And when Bulma hit´s him on the head she yells "you don´t hit Girls" instead of just "leave it"
* When the Sherman Priest Guy describes Oolong, he calls him a Monster in the Ger Manga, while he calls him an Evil Spirit instead in the Dub which works better as an tranlations of Yokai in my opinion.
* Grandma Paozu is called Grandma Paozi in the Ger Manga while the Dub leaves out her Name completly, also the Patt Patt scene with her is still a bit changed but this time it´s a bit less with Goku saying to her "You´re a nice Girl" but Bulma still repeats her "You don´t hit Girls" stuff.
* The Scene with Bulma telling her Breast size and Oolong imagining doing Paff Paff is cut, also interestingly Bulma tells him in the Dub she turned 16 recently while she dosen´t tell her Age at all in the Ger Manga, but for some odd reason Oolong still knows here age there.
* The Scene where Robot Oolong comes back with his Soup, has some Dialogue changes, instead of threaten Goku to dunk him into his Soup and eating him, he instead says that he left the soup on the stove and says he and Goku should hurry up before the Soup gets cold. Goku then calls him a weird Guy and asks if he really want´s to eat the Soup with sticks after which the Part with the Finger Dipping happens.
* During the Part with the Bricks Breaking, Goku says in the Manga that he does it with the Pinkie Finger, which contradics the actual Drawings where we see him do it with his index Finger, while in the Dub he says that one Finger is enough.
* During the Part where they get reunited with the kidnapped Girls, Oolong says in the Manga "You can take them back, they let themselves be served and only want to live in Luxury." while he says in the Dub "I love pretty Girls and i felt so sorry for them so that i wanted to offer them a better life, i could never have hurt them."
Trivia:
* This Episode had some aditional Cuts during the RTL II Broadcasst in Germany, the Patt Patt scenes and Bulma hitting Goku were Cut as well as 28 Seconds during the Portion where they get reunited with the Girls. The Stuff that was cut there was how the Girls don´t wan´t to go home and Oolong explaining his Motivation for Kidnapping them.
Episode 5 - The Strong Villain of the Desert, Yamcha, aired on 26th of March 1986
Ger Title: Yamchu the Desert robber , aired on 3th September 1999
Episode 5 is another solid one, which gives a pretty cool intruduction to both Yamcha and Puar and also gives us the first Proper Martial Arts Fight where Goku has to actually try in a battle and also his Hunger Weakness is a nice idea to balance the overpowerd Monkey Boy a bit out with his weaker Opponents, also the Oolong stuff with the Pee Pee Candy is pretty Fun. And animationwise for the First Ebisawa Episode it actually dosen´t look all that bad, there are some weaker drawings with the typicall Studio Live pointy Chins, that mostly Yamcha and to some extend Bulma get here, but there ´re still more of the rounder drawings here in the Episode. In terms of Animation it is also overall solid exept for some rather cheap looking Moments during the Goku VS Yamcha Fight.
Notewothy differences in the German Dub:
* When Goku Patt Patts Oolong he dosen´t say that he´s a Boy but instead instead he thinks that the Pig has too much Bacon (Speck in German) which means in this context that he says Oolong is Fat. The Pig replies with " I´m a Pig and a Pig has always bacon, but you don´t have to care about that is this clear!? So never touch me again!"
* When Bulma uses her Panty to lure Fish Oolong out of the Water she calls it the Bottom of her Bikini, so apparently Pantys are a lot more Family Friendly if you pass them of as swimwear...
* Instead of to threaten Oolong with eating him for Breakfast if he trys to run away again, Goku says in the Dub that there would be no Dinner for Oolong instead.
* The Pee Pee Candy is called Pillie Candy in the Ger Manga while it´s called the Magic Candy in the Dub instead, and when it comes for the Word to Trigger Oolongs diarrhea it´s just Pillie in the Manga but Magic Candy in the Dub.
* When Oolong transforms into a Panty he says before that he can transform into a Bathing Suit for Bulma, so in this context he transforms himself into an Bathing Suit that only covers the abdomen? Yeah very Kid Friendly indeed these French Dub Changes
* The Dialouge´s with Yamcha and Puar is a bit toned down, there isen´t any mention about killing them with the exeption of Puar yelling "Yaaaa Super! Today we get pork cutlets! pork cutlets!", so apparently speaking about turning Pigs into Food is still Kid Friendly in the Eyes of AB Groupe...
* When Puar speaks about his Past with Oolong in the Transformations Kindergarten, he just references it as Kindergarten and the Stuff with the Teacher and the Pantys was also a bit changed, Puar says there that Oolong got later kicked out of School cause he teased the Female Teacher even more than him, but it´s not said what the dirty Pig actually did in this Dub.
Trivia:
* This is one of the Episodes which got aditional Cuts, from RTL II, there is not a showcase of these Changes yet on "Schnittbericht.com" (https://www.schnittberichte.com/svds.ph ... el&ID=7688) but i still remember from a now defunct Web Site that the Scene where Goku pokes Yamcha in the Eyes was removed from the RTL II Broadcast.
* Yamcha and Puar are known as Yamchu and Pool in Germany and his Wolffang Fist is called Wolfs Technique here.
Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
I feel like Goku patting girls/old women on the crotch and calling them a nice girl or adorable makes him seem way weirder and pervier than intended if he was just curious on what their sex was.Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:29 am
* During the Patt Patt scene, the Dialogue was changed so that instead of comenting that she is a Girl, Goku says she´s adorable and calls her "Kleine" which is the Female Version of small one in German. And when Bulma hit´s him on the head she yells "you don´t hit Girls" instead of just "leave it"
* Grandma Paozu is called Grandma Paozi in the Ger Manga while the Dub leaves out her Name completly, also the Patt Patt scene with her is still a bit changed but this time it´s a bit less with Goku saying to her "You´re a nice Girl" but Bulma still repeats her "You don´t hit Girls" stuff.
I think Funimation had the same logic in 1995 when they painted Bulma’s solid pink when Goku lifts up her skirt. Apparently its okay if it can pass for the bottom of a swin suit and isn’t her polka dotted panties?
* When Bulma uses her Panty to lure Fish Oolong out of the Water she calls it the Bottom of her Bikini, so apparently Pantys are a lot more Family Friendly if you pass them of as swimwear...
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Right if you think about it, it seems like Goku is hitting on these Girls in a rather perverted way. Very ironic, in there efforts to censor these "you are a Girl" lines by replaycing them with Random Stuff they made them even more naugtier
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SuperSaiyaManZ94
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
There's also the thing in both the 1995 and 2001 DB dubs with the scene where Goku does the crotch patting to the old lady that they altered to have him instead "dust off her apron" which now that i think about it was an easy one to re write and at least works in context as that does kind of look like what he's doing.Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:07 pmRight if you think about it, it seems like Goku is hitting on these Girls in a rather perverted way. Very ironic, in there efforts to censor these "you are a Girl" lines by replaycing them with Random Stuff they made them even more naugtier
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
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Dragon Sponge
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
Very Interresting, looks like Funi was a bit smarter than AB Groupe when it came to censoring Dialogue logically.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:43 pmThere's also the thing in both the 1995 and 2001 DB dubs with the scene where Goku does the crotch patting to the old lady that they altered to have him instead "dust off her apron" which now that i think about it was an easy one to re write and at least works in context as that does kind of look like what he's doing.Dragon Sponge wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:07 pmRight if you think about it, it seems like Goku is hitting on these Girls in a rather perverted way. Very ironic, in there efforts to censor these "you are a Girl" lines by replaycing them with Random Stuff they made them even more naugtier
Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
In the 95 dub they cut it out entirely and he calls her old and wrinkly (they also cut out him patting the little girl and he calls her cuter than Bulma which is why Bulma hit him)
In the 2001 dub its left as is and she calls him a randy boy. The censored 2001 dub on Toonami might have done the dusting thing. That’s what the Blue Water dub did I think?
In the 2001 dub its left as is and she calls him a randy boy. The censored 2001 dub on Toonami might have done the dusting thing. That’s what the Blue Water dub did I think?
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SuperSaiyaManZ94
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Re: Dragon Ball rewatch, week 1 - DB episodes 1-5
The apron line was only in the TV edited version of the '01 DB dub if memory serves, and it's been a long time but i do in fact recall watching the episode as a kid on Toonami at one point around 2002 or so when Dragon Ball was still airing in first run which it was likely during a break for repeats and that bit being there along with said line. For some reason i thought it was included in the BLT dub but apparently not nor the uncut 2001 version either.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:41 pm In the 95 dub they cut it out entirely and he calls her old and wrinkly (they also cut out him patting the little girl and he calls her cuter than Bulma which is why Bulma hit him)
In the 2001 dub its left as is and she calls him a randy boy. The censored 2001 dub on Toonami might have done the dusting thing. That’s what the Blue Water dub did I think?
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 1 - DB Episodes 1-5
I happened to watch episode 2 the other day (and episode 1 not all that long ago), so I just figured I'd toss in a couple comments on stuff.
Speaking of mistranslations, there's another kinda weird one in episode 2 - Pilaf goes on about how the farting should be punished by being chopped in pieces, but after he talks Shu into taking the blame for his own fart, he says that he'll reward his honesty by changing the punishment from being chopped into pieces to simply having to go without supper... but the subs mistranslate this as him changing the punishment to "being turned into food", which kinda kills the entire joke, makes Shu's subsequent shriek of horror a lot less funny, and... doesn't really make a lot of sense since Shu is still around after this. I know it's throwaway dialogue in a filler scene and all, but it's supposed to be funny, yo.
Speaking of Pilaf, I really DON'T like his inclusion in these early episodes much - it really changes the entire arc from having Pilaf as that last obstacle on the journey to having him be this central antagonist of this "Pilaf arc" with the audience waiting for him and Goku to eventually cross paths, which diminishes the importance of the other non-Pilaf-related stuff that happens throughout the arc. It's really not how the arc is supposed to work. Imagine if the Red Ribbon arc had had cuts to Pilaf every other episode, sneaking around in the background, spying on both Goku and Red Ribbon, trying to get to the Dragonballs before them but always failing... it'd have hurt the arc pretty bad and reduced Red Ribbon to "these guys that are just getting in the way as we're building up to the second big confrontation between Goku and Pilaf, the main villain of Dragonball". That's really how it comes across here too. I like Pilaf, dammit, but he's not the main villain of this arc and I don't like the anime trying to make him that.
Though if we HAVE to have Pilaf in these episodes... I actually really like the castle scene in episode 2. The dialogue is extremely Toriyama-y, especially the stuff with Pilaf explaining how the world will be a paradise when he takes over, since he'll do stuff like outlawing public urinating and farting... before farting himself and needing to blame it on someone else. It's dumb immature fart jokes, and it's the kind of humor that's straight out of Dr. Slump. Dragonball needed more of that.
Yes, I realize I just wrote two big paragraphs about a fart joke.
The way episode 2 adapts all of chapter 2 and half of chapter 3 doesn't really work very well. The chapter 3 stuff feels so incredibly dissconnected from the chapter 2 stuff that makes up most of the episode, and it never goes anywhere beyond setup for the next episode. Toei really should've just expanded on chapter 2 a bit more instead of forcing this turtle stuff into the episode.
The anime makes some weird cuts to the dialogue from the manga, resulting in them leaving out both the fact that the Dragonballs fly away after getting used and the fact that Bulma is searching for the Dragonballs during her holiday, so she only has 30 days to find them. The latter bit is mentioned both in Chapter 2 AND 3, the anime drops both mentions. I have no idea why.
(but yes, had some genuinely educated bilingual dude that had never heard of Dragonball before been given the series today and told to give it an accurate translation, he'd probably have gone with Yumcha. He'd also probably have gone with "Wukong" for the protagonist's name.)
That's a mistranslation in the subtitles. He actually comments on how not even HE would've survived that fall. It's an anime-only line (the pterodactyl doesn't even fall down a cliff in the manga), and I rather like it, it grounds Goku a bit.PremiumSalt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:00 pm -Random Observation: Goku doesn't seem terribly bothered when he thinks he "didn't save [Bulma] after all"...
Speaking of mistranslations, there's another kinda weird one in episode 2 - Pilaf goes on about how the farting should be punished by being chopped in pieces, but after he talks Shu into taking the blame for his own fart, he says that he'll reward his honesty by changing the punishment from being chopped into pieces to simply having to go without supper... but the subs mistranslate this as him changing the punishment to "being turned into food", which kinda kills the entire joke, makes Shu's subsequent shriek of horror a lot less funny, and... doesn't really make a lot of sense since Shu is still around after this. I know it's throwaway dialogue in a filler scene and all, but it's supposed to be funny, yo.
Speaking of Pilaf, I really DON'T like his inclusion in these early episodes much - it really changes the entire arc from having Pilaf as that last obstacle on the journey to having him be this central antagonist of this "Pilaf arc" with the audience waiting for him and Goku to eventually cross paths, which diminishes the importance of the other non-Pilaf-related stuff that happens throughout the arc. It's really not how the arc is supposed to work. Imagine if the Red Ribbon arc had had cuts to Pilaf every other episode, sneaking around in the background, spying on both Goku and Red Ribbon, trying to get to the Dragonballs before them but always failing... it'd have hurt the arc pretty bad and reduced Red Ribbon to "these guys that are just getting in the way as we're building up to the second big confrontation between Goku and Pilaf, the main villain of Dragonball". That's really how it comes across here too. I like Pilaf, dammit, but he's not the main villain of this arc and I don't like the anime trying to make him that.
Though if we HAVE to have Pilaf in these episodes... I actually really like the castle scene in episode 2. The dialogue is extremely Toriyama-y, especially the stuff with Pilaf explaining how the world will be a paradise when he takes over, since he'll do stuff like outlawing public urinating and farting... before farting himself and needing to blame it on someone else. It's dumb immature fart jokes, and it's the kind of humor that's straight out of Dr. Slump. Dragonball needed more of that.
Yes, I realize I just wrote two big paragraphs about a fart joke.
The way episode 2 adapts all of chapter 2 and half of chapter 3 doesn't really work very well. The chapter 3 stuff feels so incredibly dissconnected from the chapter 2 stuff that makes up most of the episode, and it never goes anywhere beyond setup for the next episode. Toei really should've just expanded on chapter 2 a bit more instead of forcing this turtle stuff into the episode.
The anime makes some weird cuts to the dialogue from the manga, resulting in them leaving out both the fact that the Dragonballs fly away after getting used and the fact that Bulma is searching for the Dragonballs during her holiday, so she only has 30 days to find them. The latter bit is mentioned both in Chapter 2 AND 3, the anime drops both mentions. I have no idea why.
...aside from the fact that this IS what those words mean, the characters all say "hoi" when they throw the capsules and there's a "poi" sound effect when they throw them. So uh, no? It's an incredibly straight forward and obvious name. Not to be mean, but it's like asking why Batman is called Batman and saying any implied connection with the animal "bat" is a stretch.
If there's any logical reason behind the name spelling choice (remember Simmons also went with "Kibit" and "Dabura" later), I assume it's either this, an assumption that "yamucha" was a Japanese word, or just that nobody really knew what to do with all these Chinese-derived names and terms. "Yamucha" isn't any more wrong than "Paozu", and I can't recall anyone ever complaining about that spelling. If you're looking for consistency and in how names in Dragonball get handled in the subtitles, you're not going to find any.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:01 am Technically, I think both Yamcha and Yamucha are valid readings, arguably as would be Yumcha, but Simmons and Mandelin thought Yamucha was a better choice; I'm guessing it's because, as noted herea, it's written in katakana, rather than with the Chinese kanji with a katakana reading, so you romanise from the Japanese pronunciation rather than the Chinese root
(but yes, had some genuinely educated bilingual dude that had never heard of Dragonball before been given the series today and told to give it an accurate translation, he'd probably have gone with Yumcha. He'd also probably have gone with "Wukong" for the protagonist's name.)
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Robo4900
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 1 - DB Episodes 1-5
Your notes are utterly fascinating.
I hope you find the time to catch up to the later threads; I'd love to hear your further insights!
(We may be 40 episodes in at this point, but next week's viewing is just the first movie, and aside from that, it's only 5 episodes per week, so if you get some time to binge a bit, it may be possible for you to catch up over the next few weeks.
)Huh.Adamant wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:42 am That's a mistranslation in the subtitles. He actually comments on how not even HE would've survived that fall. It's an anime-only line (the pterodactyl doesn't even fall down a cliff in the manga), and I rather like it, it grounds Goku a bit.
Speaking of mistranslations, there's another kinda weird one in episode 2 - Pilaf goes on about how the farting should be punished by being chopped in pieces, but after he talks Shu into taking the blame for his own fart, he says that he'll reward his honesty by changing the punishment from being chopped into pieces to simply having to go without supper... but the subs mistranslate this as him changing the punishment to "being turned into food", which kinda kills the entire joke, makes Shu's subsequent shriek of horror a lot less funny, and... doesn't really make a lot of sense since Shu is still around after this. I know it's throwaway dialogue in a filler scene and all, but it's supposed to be funny, yo.
I wonder how those mistranslations crept in. I guess Mandelin was probably in a bit of a hurry.
Then again, I think Mandelin's actual translations were produced to form a Japanese base for Funi to work off for their dubbing, even though most of the time they'd lean pretty heavily on existing dub scripts to save time, and heavily adapt things to their "style"... So it's possible he mistranslated this scene either on purpose or because he didn't think it mattered much, then didn't end up fixing it when it came time to prepare these translations to work as subtitles for the DVDs. Especially since DB 1-13's subtitles weren't initially released until Australia put out their DVD singles in... What, 2004?
Honestly, I quite like that the Pilaf gang are set up early. At the end of the story, they kinda come out of no where originally. And it kinda lends credence to the idea that the balls are quite sought-after, among certain groups who are aware of their existence. And it gives an overall feel of continuity and completeness to the story... Feels a little more cohesive and planned-out if there's these suggestions of where the plot's going.
... Still, fair enough.
And yeah, I agree that the additions of Pilaf scenes were best when they were jokes.
Though really, I'll be honest, I'm just happy to see a Toei addition that isn't an uncomfortable, perverted "joke"... Seriously, it feels like 80% of the perverse humour that hasn't aged well in DB is Toei's fault. (Roshi is a pervert in the original manga, but from what I've observed, every time he's tried to actually assault/harass anyone was a Toei addition)
Interesting.Adamant wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:42 am The way episode 2 adapts all of chapter 2 and half of chapter 3 doesn't really work very well. The chapter 3 stuff feels so incredibly dissconnected from the chapter 2 stuff that makes up most of the episode, and it never goes anywhere beyond setup for the next episode. Toei really should've just expanded on chapter 2 a bit more instead of forcing this turtle stuff into the episode.
The anime makes some weird cuts to the dialogue from the manga, resulting in them leaving out both the fact that the Dragonballs fly away after getting used and the fact that Bulma is searching for the Dragonballs during her holiday, so she only has 30 days to find them. The latter bit is mentioned both in Chapter 2 AND 3, the anime drops both mentions. I have no idea why.
Later on, Toei would be struggling to try to get everything they possibly could out of the manga material. But here, they're outright cutting stuff like that? Quite a change.
I think Steve Simmons knows better than to assume "Yamucha" is a Japanese word. Again, I think the reason he chose "Yamucha" is because it's written in katakana, and of course, there is the element that you are hearing the Japanese dialogue while you're watching, and "Yamucha" is closer to the sounds coming out of their mouths.Adamant wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:42 am If there's any logical reason behind the name spelling choice (remember Simmons also went with "Kibit" and "Dabura" later), I assume it's either this, an assumption that "yamucha" was a Japanese word, or just that nobody really knew what to do with all these Chinese-derived names and terms. "Yamucha" isn't any more wrong than "Paozu", and I can't recall anyone ever complaining about that spelling. If you're looking for consistency and in how names in Dragonball get handled in the subtitles, you're not going to find any.
(but yes, had some genuinely educated bilingual dude that had never heard of Dragonball before been given the series today and told to give it an accurate translation, he'd probably have gone with Yumcha. He'd also probably have gone with "Wukong" for the protagonist's name.)
I do agree that Yumcha would be a better choice. Dunno about Wukong. Toriyama did often choose to outright use Chinese words, but Goku's name is specifically the Japanese reading.
I suppose one does have to adapt these things, and calling him Sun Wukong would allow for things like chapter 1's title (which reads as "Bloomer And The Monkey King") to actually make sense.
I'd love to talk to a translator about this. Maybe Steve Simmons is reading this thread, and would be willing to give his thoughts. I know he lurks from time to time.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 1 - DB Episodes 1-5
He also chose "Chaozu", and that's written with kanji. As I said, there's not a lot of consistency there.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:46 pm I think Steve Simmons knows better than to assume "Yamucha" is a Japanese word. Again, I think the reason he chose "Yamucha" is because it's written in katakana, and of course, there is the element that you are hearing the Japanese dialogue while you're watching, and "Yamucha" is closer to the sounds coming out of their mouths.
The reason I was watching this episode was because I was doing a comparison between the manga and the anime to check exactly what was and wasn't changed... and hell, I might as well drop off my notes I made for personal use. (I did do a similar comparison of episode 1, but the idea of writing down my findings didn't really occur to me, so I should probably redo that):
Episode 2:
(chapter 2)
*Narrator's introduction neglects to mention the Dragonballs can only grant one wish.
*Bulma turns on the TV with a remote.
*(mid pp5pn4) 04:03-04:40 - filler scene, Bulma switches to a romance movie, Goku switches to a monster movie
*Bulma's dialogue about Goku needing a bath (pp5pn4) is notably differently worded
*Extra bit where Goku covers his face with the towel after Bulma tells him to cover up the front
*Goku explains he walks in on Bulma in the bath to wash her, since she washed him
*Goku asks what a bust is, Bulma explains they're something babies like... and guys. Goku replies he doesn't like them.
*The anime leaves out the first usage of "Son-kun", and the scene where Bulma asks Goku his age is worded a bit differently.
*(after pp9pn4) 08:10-11:46 - filler scene, Pilaf, Shu and Mai discuss the Dragonballs and Ryugadani
EYECATCH 12:20 after pp10pn2
*(after pp10pn3) 12:34-15:40 - filler scene, Goku goes hunting for food, runs into Shu and Mai and accidentally destroys their plane.
*Bulma's line in pp10pn4 changed from "You're early" to "You're late"
*last line from pp12pn4 and all of pn5 cut: Bulma originally tells Goku she wasn't abandoned, but that she's making use of the summer vacation she has from "this thing she always goes to called a school". This is why she only has 30 days to find the remaining Dragonballs, she doesn't have infinite spare time like Goku does.
*narration from pp15pn5 cut
(chapter 3 - starts at 18:22)
*opening narration is cut
*end of pp6 has extra bits with Goku constantly asking what a sea is
*Part of the dialogue in pp7pn2 rewritten, Bulma originally once again says they only have 30 days to find the Dragonballs. Anime changes this to Goku saying she mentioned he could see the sea if he came with her, and she says she meant eventually, but that they have to find the Dragonballs now (with no real explanation given to why they're in such a hurry).
*pp8pn3 cut: Bulma wonders if Goku is actually going to come back.
(ends after pp8)
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