Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

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DestructoDisc
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Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by DestructoDisc » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:40 pm

If there's one thing the DB fanbase is never going to stop talking about it's power levels. There are so many debates in the community about who is stronger than who, and this is all because of the powerscaling. Both Super and GT had.. questionable powerscaling to say the least, but which one do you think had better powerscaling? Please tell me, i'm really interested in your thoughts.

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by coola » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:00 pm

I'd say GT, besides Goku and Vegeta, everyone was slacking, so it made perfect sense Goku was able to beat everyone in Base form, of course GT had some BS moments, like Goku getting hurt by fan, but nothing will top Super, with had power levels all over the place.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:14 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:40 pm
If there's one thing the DB fanbase is never going to stop talking about it's power levels.
Unfortunately

but which one do you think had better powerscaling? Please tell me, i'm really interested in your thoughts.
Which was the one when a character became stronger than another character as required by the narrative?

That one

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 pm

Power levels don't matter in the slighest.

Power scaling is ultimately just a plot hole and thus doesn't really factor in beyond nitpicking. (I don't care how much you like CinemaSins; plot holes are not legitimate points to critique, they're nitpicks)

But, nitpicking can be fun, so...
Super's is probably worse. BOG starts us immediately with "Now Goku and Vegeta have god ki which is so powerful mortals can't even sense it, and even Super Saiyan 3 is like an ant to it", and then we get the Tournament Of Power, where Kuririn, Roshi, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, #17, #18, and Gohan are all holding their own against the kind of power that can be a threat to Goku and Vegeta's god ki. It really doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:48 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 pm
Power levels don't matter in the slighest.

Power scaling is ultimately just a plot hole and thus doesn't really factor in beyond nitpicking. (I don't care how much you like CinemaSins; plot holes are not legitimate points to critique, they're nitpicks)

But, nitpicking can be fun, so...
Super's is probably worse. BOG starts us immediately with "Now Goku and Vegeta have god ki which is so powerful mortals can't even sense it, and even Super Saiyan 3 is like an ant to it", and then we get the Tournament Of Power, where Kuririn, Roshi, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, #17, #18, and Gohan are all holding their own against the kind of power that can be a threat to Goku and Vegeta's god ki. It really doesn't make any sense.
Oh my god, thank you! Stories aren't math problems or RPG's. They don't need fully consistent rules to work. I consider myself a geek, but turning fantasy stories into math problems is asinine. What about them, motivation, story, plot, characterization, etc.?
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by SSJgogeto » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:27 pm

GT, absolutely.

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:50 pm

GT seems to have less inconsistencies, despite trying to nerf Goku only to look like that he is too far ahead of everyone else. In another hand, Super frequently goes back and forth in how Goku and Vegeta are ahead of the other U7 people.

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:29 pm

On the idea of how important power scaling is, I think it's important in the sense that you need a good justification, in both directions. For example, Beerus being powerful because of God Ki, and then Goku closing the gap (kinda) with SSG to me works. Gohan and Goten becoming weaker in GT because they don't train works in the opposite direction. I even think Frieza not training a day in his life works out great because that totally fits the type of character he is. Baselines work this way too; while the Androids were a bit iffy considering they're human machines, Vegeta, Frieza, Cell and Buu all have good reasons for why we hadn't met that level of strength before (aliens, hybrid creation and a seal-away demon).

What doesn't work is when rules are broken with poor or even no justification. For example, it's never stated directly but it's VERY heavily implied that humans like Krillin and Roshi and Yamcha and Tien cannot hope to match the lightning-fast power growth a Saiyan has... which makes the Super thing baffling when they DO catch up and can help to a notable degree. I think humans being 100% unable to match Saiyans is one of the big reasons why a lot of characters become irrelevant, which is why Ultra Instinct possibly being not Saiyan-exclusive is so exciting as an idea.

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Thanos » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:06 am

I think they're equally flawed in their own ways.

GT's powerscaling was based on time... it had been five years since Buu, so somehow magically everyone's power increased proportionally, despite lack of training or minimal training.

Super's was better on the whole I think, but it was responsible for some of the most ridiculous powerscaling ever. Main one that comes to mind is Trunks spontaneously acquiring pseudo-god energy despite having only seen Goku and Vegeta use it earlier that day (or at least the same week, I dunno how much time went by), who themselves were already more powerful than him and took a while to learn it. #17 as well, but his reintroduction was handled so fantastically that I have a hard time hating it.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:08 pm

GT's power scaling is clearly less egregious, but that doesn't mean it makes any more sense.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:42 pm

This is without question one of the single most refreshingly unique and necessary thread topics we've ever, ever had.

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 pm
But, nitpicking can be fun, so...
Was 1000% with everything you said up until this part. :P
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:44 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:42 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:32 pm
But, nitpicking can be fun, so...
Was 1000% with everything you said up until this part. :P
lol.

What can I say, sometimes something completely unnecessary and stupid can be a bit of a laugh for a few minutes. :lol:
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:17 pm

Personally, I like the philosophy Super was going with, where pure brute strength isn't everything, and even if you are way stronger than an opponent you can still lose if you let your guard down, or if they have a special technique, or if they have more skill and experience. It adds more dimensions to the fights, and allows strategy to play a role, so it's not just about who has the bigger power level.

Not to say that Super didn't stretch this too far at times, as it most certainly did.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:42 pm

Super is one big mess when it comes to powerscaling. Nothing makes sense there. When DBS starts we see someone like Beerus being on a level that seems to be unreachable by normal methods so Goku gains godly powers. Then in next arc Frieza comes back, trains for 4 months and already beats a form that is supposed to be even stronger than SSJG. SSJB in the end became what its design tells us - just regular SSJ form but with blue hair.

It only gets worse later, as someone like #17 can fight against SSJ Blue and that doesn't surprise anyone. For comparison, base Vegeta in GT was shocked that Hell Fighter 17 is equal to him saying he powered up "beyond belief". Note that Vegeta didn't know it's a different #17, he thought it's the original one.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:17 pm
even if you are way stronger than an opponent you can still lose if you let your guard down, or if they have a special technique, or if they have more skill and experience. It adds more dimensions to the fights, and allows strategy to play a role, so it's not just about who has the bigger power level.
Syn Shenron was the first and only character in GT stronger than SSJ4 Goku on his own (Super 17 was stronger only because of his absorption abilities), yet it didn't stop Goku from struggling against other characters, especially some of the dragons. So i wouldn't say it's something exclusive to Super. Many of GT fights were won because of strategy and discovering weak points.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:58 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:42 pm
Super is one big mess when it comes to powerscaling. Nothing makes sense there. When DBS starts we see someone like Beerus being on a level that seems to be unreachable by normal methods so Goku gains godly powers. Then in next arc Frieza comes back, trains for 4 months and already beats a form that is supposed to be even stronger than SSJG. SSJB in the end became what its design tells us - just regular SSJ form but with blue hair.
It's eyeroll worthy but the gaping leap in logic might've been worth it if we got an interesting fight out of it. That's ultimately a bigger issue there. The fundamental issue is trotting out Freeza for the 3rd time.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:54 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:58 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:42 pm
Super is one big mess when it comes to powerscaling. Nothing makes sense there. When DBS starts we see someone like Beerus being on a level that seems to be unreachable by normal methods so Goku gains godly powers. Then in next arc Frieza comes back, trains for 4 months and already beats a form that is supposed to be even stronger than SSJG. SSJB in the end became what its design tells us - just regular SSJ form but with blue hair.
It's eyeroll worthy but the gaping leap in logic might've been worth it if we got an interesting fight out of it. That's ultimately a bigger issue there. The fundamental issue is trotting out Freeza for the 3rd time.
Pretty sure toriyama doesn’t care about the implications on frieza Beijing back he liked the dynamic with Goku that he decided to expand on it. It doesn’t brother me and this isn’t the first toriyama did something to hurt his series but I can understand why some people would be upset about it.

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:53 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:54 pm
ABED wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:58 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:42 pm
Super is one big mess when it comes to powerscaling. Nothing makes sense there. When DBS starts we see someone like Beerus being on a level that seems to be unreachable by normal methods so Goku gains godly powers. Then in next arc Frieza comes back, trains for 4 months and already beats a form that is supposed to be even stronger than SSJG. SSJB in the end became what its design tells us - just regular SSJ form but with blue hair.
It's eyeroll worthy but the gaping leap in logic might've been worth it if we got an interesting fight out of it. That's ultimately a bigger issue there. The fundamental issue is trotting out Freeza for the 3rd time.
Pretty sure toriyama doesn’t care about the implications on frieza Beijing back he liked the dynamic with Goku that he decided to expand on it. It doesn’t brother me and this isn’t the first toriyama did something to hurt his series but I can understand why some people would be upset about it.
Do you have an alarm that goes off any time anyone mentions anything remotely negative regarding Freeza's role in modern DB? I'm not even upset, I'm just bored by it.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:40 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:53 pm
Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:54 pm
ABED wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:58 pm
It's eyeroll worthy but the gaping leap in logic might've been worth it if we got an interesting fight out of it. That's ultimately a bigger issue there. The fundamental issue is trotting out Freeza for the 3rd time.
Pretty sure toriyama doesn’t care about the implications on frieza Beijing back he liked the dynamic with Goku that he decided to expand on it. It doesn’t brother me and this isn’t the first toriyama did something to hurt his series but I can understand why some people would be upset about it.
Do you have an alarm that goes off any time anyone mentions anything remotely negative regarding Freeza's role in modern DB? I'm not even upset, I'm just bored by it.
As is your rants on modern dragon ball in general? Also your complaints are really boring. You always complain about modern dragon ball this and modern dragon ball that upset of the changes dude we get it already. Like try watching something else like better caul Saul or even the el Camino movie

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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:00 pm

Hardly what I would call a rant, but okay. Your issue is super specific and you clearly seek this out. You feel this compulsion to not even give an opinion, but simply state a fact every time some one mentions something remotely negative about Freeza. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And this has gone on for years. The shtick isn't funny, it's not interesting, and is more than a tad troubling.
Like try watching something else like better caul Saul or even the el Camino movie
:wtf: ... good one?

Also stop seeking out my comments to reply to them. It's stalker behavior. I'm THIS close to reporting you to the moderators.

Now can we please get back to the topic at hand? Does anyone here think the story would be much better off if the powerscaling was consistent like a RPG?
Last edited by ABED on Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which series has better powerscaling, GT or Super?

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:08 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:00 pm
Hardly what I would call a rant, but okay. Your issue is super specific and you clearly seek this out. You feel this compulsion to not even give an opinion, but simply state a fact every time some one mentions something remotely negative about Freeza. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And this has gone on for years. The shtick isn't funny, it's not interesting, and is more than a tad troubling.
Like try watching something else like better caul Saul or even the el Camino movie
:wtf:
... good one.
Dude I react to everything not just frieza and I never said it was fact. I enjoy tmnt Star Wars and others but dude your the one who maid the same stuff about nostalgia and dragon ball continuing. Also better caul Saul and el Camino are great

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