What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:39 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:37 am
I was pointing out that DB already has that kind of multiple continuity mess (you have the anime, manga, Super anime and manga, the movies, GT, the video games, the Heroes anime, the TV specials, Kai, the BoG/RoF movies compared to the anime arcs of the same events, etc.)

Not really all that different from all the different versions of Batman or Superman.
That's not the same thing. In the case of DB, that's an issue of source material and adaptation. In the example of Batman and Superman comics, there are differences in characterization within the same medium.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:21 pm

Not all Western comics function like Marvel or DC. There are comics with a single creative vision that follow linear story arcs. An example would be The Walking Dead, which ended last year.

Still, I’m assuming that the OP is specifically asking about what Dragon Ball would be like if it followed the Marvel and DC methods, in which case, I’d say it would probably be a mess.

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:49 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:21 pm
Not all Western comics function like Marvel or DC. There are comics with a single creative vision that follow linear story arcs. An example would be The Walking Dead, which ended last year.

Still, I’m assuming that the OP is specifically asking about what Dragon Ball would be like if it followed the Marvel and DC methods, in which case, I’d say it would probably be a mess.
I think some of the confusion comes from people using comics to mean superhero comics. One is a medium, the other is a genre.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by Super Sonic » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:01 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:23 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:11 pm
I have to say it's a bit troubling hearing Western comic books being framed as "lacking consistency" and "rebooted ten different times" and so forth. I don't think that comic book history deserves to be misrepresented in that way.

If anything, Dragon Ball might become *more* consistent in the Marvel/DC style. Especially with the right editors who are invested enough. However, too much consistency might work to DB's detriment. There would almost certainly be an increased emphasis on "lore" though, for those who concern themselves with it.

It would also be interesting to see how the artwork would evolve over time compared to Toriyama's.
I personally have never gotten into American comics precisely because I find it so confusing. I look at any character's Wikipedia page whether it's a Spider-Man character, Superman, Batman, etc. and everyone has multiple sections that explain each canon. There is no single, definitive version of these characters. They only seem to share a few roots such as Batman's parents are dead, Uncle Ben got killed, Superman came from Krypton, etc.
I suggest you read Usagi Yojimbo. There aren't multiple reboots to that. The original Mirage comics TMNT might be up your alley as well. Note though, Shredder isn't the big bad as he usually is in other media. In fact, he's considered to be one of the less evil incarnations due to his lack of screen time.

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 pm

Having multiple wrters probably would have kept the stories interesting for much longer but the comedy probably wouldn't be as consistent. I;m not sure if the trade off would be worth it.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:23 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 pm
Having multiple wrters probably would have kept the stories interesting for much longer but the comedy probably wouldn't be as consistent. I;m not sure if the trade off would be worth it.
Longer than a decade? Maybe, but doubtful.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:34 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:23 pm
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:08 pm
Having multiple wrters probably would have kept the stories interesting for much longer but the comedy probably wouldn't be as consistent. I;m not sure if the trade off would be worth it.
Longer than a decade? Maybe, but doubtful.
Doubt all you like. The manga is full of missed oppurtunities and, more importantly imo, there's such a huge cast from the get go that it would be trivial to create one or two side comics to explore them. Which, ok, not really something a manga reader likes but it'd have kept me at least interested. A comic following Goku's three years between the fall of the RR Army and the 22nd Budokai would have been great to have. Another following the capers if Oolong and Lunch as the latter bullies/seduces the former into helping her stage daring robberies. Maybe if we could have seen characters like Tenshinhan and Yamcha succeed more than once or twice they wouldn't have started to feel like dead weight by the time Namek rolled around.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:47 pm

There are plenty of adventures throughout DB so why is the three year gap after the RRA falls some grand missed opportunity?

Yamcha and Tenshinhan are likeable characters and good friends of Goku who the audience cares about. They aren't dead weight. Killing them off served a dramatic purpose.

How would bringing new writers mean the story would be more interesting for much longer? It's not like the manga was too short.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:57 pm

It's not a question of need. It's an oppurtunity to expand on something or do something different/new with the story. That's the advantage of comics, you aren't tied down to themes/genre of the original. That was the point of my Oolong Lunch example. They're two characters who, while fun, are poorly suited to the types of adventures Goku is having. Under a western comic paradigm they could have gotten their own ten issue or so side story either to hold fans over between arcs or to give the main writer (Toriyama) a few months to collect his thoughts.
Yamcha and Tenshinhan are likeable characters and good friends of Goku
Such good friends that Goku couldn't even remember Tenshinhan's name for the ToP. Then again with Tenshinhan's performance maybe that was Goku's subconscious warning him...
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:05 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:57 pm
It's not a question of need. It's an oppurtunity to expand on something or do something different/new with the story. That's the advantage of comics, you aren't tied down to themes/genre of the original. That was the point of my Oolong Lunch example. They're two characters who, while fun, are poorly suited to the types of adventures Goku is having. Under a western comic paradigm they could have gotten their own ten issue or so side story either to hold fans over between arcs or to give the main writer (Toriyama) a few months to collect his thoughts.
Yamcha and Tenshinhan are likeable characters and good friends of Goku
Such good friends that Goku couldn't even remember Tenshinhan's name for the ToP. Then again with Tenshinhan's performance maybe that was Goku's subconscious warning him...
1) I'm not counting Super. At the time of the Saiyan arc, Goku clearly valued his friendships with Tenshinhan and Yamcha.
2) Toriyama was doing something different with DB, he jumped the story forward
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:18 pm

I know. And part of me thinks he kept jumping the plot forward because he was exhausted. Compare the lush Thailand inspired backgrounds of the 21st Budokai to what we were gettng on Namek. That's another benefit of the western comic paradigm. You trade a consistent voice for a better rested lead.

Anyway I'm not saying it;d be better. Just that there's good reason to think it wouldn't be a worse product
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:41 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:42 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:11 pm
I have to say it's a bit troubling hearing Western comic books being framed as "lacking consistency" and "rebooted ten different times" and so forth. I don't think that comic book history deserves to be misrepresented in that way.

If anything, Dragon Ball might become *more* consistent in the Marvel/DC style. Especially with the right editors who are invested enough. However, too much consistency might work to DB's detriment. There would almost certainly be an increased emphasis on "lore" though, for those who concern themselves with it.

It would also be interesting to see how the artwork would evolve over time compared to Toriyama's.
There are other comics like image comics,dark horse comics,idw,and other comic publishers with creator owned content and completed series
It's too bad that people only care about Marvel and DC when it comes to comics. Similar how people seem only care about Shonen anime and manga than Seinen anime and manga. Image Comics produces some of the best comics like Saga, which is easily one of the best comics of the 2010s. I even find Spawn recently to more enjoyable than the most of the stuff that Marvel and DC has been putting out with their superhero comics in my opinion.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:49 am

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:18 pm
I know. And part of me thinks he kept jumping the plot forward because he was exhausted. Compare the lush Thailand inspired backgrounds of the 21st Budokai to what we were gettng on Namek. That's another benefit of the western comic paradigm. You trade a consistent voice for a better rested lead.

Anyway I'm not saying it;d be better. Just that there's good reason to think it wouldn't be a worse product
And yet the actual quality of his work says otherwise. He jumped the story forward to keep it interesting for himself. His work hit its stride around the 22nd TB until around the Freeza arc. That's a hell of a stretch and he was well into the run by that time.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by Zarely » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:40 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:42 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:36 pm
It is a comic book series.
I mean a western comic book store like made by marvel and dc like a foreign remake of sorts
Then they'd keep recycling villains back and forth over and over again for decades with no end in sight. Frieza, Cell, Piccolo, Tao, Frieza, Piccolo, Pilaf, Cell etc.

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:57 pm

Zarely wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:40 pm
Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:42 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:36 pm
It is a comic book series.
I mean a western comic book store like made by marvel and dc like a foreign remake of sorts
Then they'd keep recycling villains back and forth over and over again for decades with no end in sight. Frieza, Cell, Piccolo, Tao, Frieza, Piccolo, Pilaf, Cell etc.
So like actual Dragon Ball then?
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by Zarely » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:02 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:57 pm
So like actual Dragon Ball then?
No because Dragon Ball doesn't do that. Making it the opposite of what I just said.

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Zarely wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:02 pm
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:57 pm
So like actual Dragon Ball then?
No because Dragon Ball doesn't do that. Making it the opposite of what I just said.
Dragon Ball constantly brings back past villains. Piccolo, Tao Pei Pei, Freeza, Cell and the androids are a throwback to the R&R Army. They all get a repackage or reskin but if one arc presents a villain you can practically guarantee that in two arcs they'll be back
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:57 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:11 pm
Zarely wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:02 pm
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:57 pm
So like actual Dragon Ball then?
No because Dragon Ball doesn't do that. Making it the opposite of what I just said.
Dragon Ball constantly brings back past villains. Piccolo, Tao Pei Pei, Freeza, Cell and the androids are a throwback to the R&R Army. They all get a repackage or reskin but if one arc presents a villain you can practically guarantee that in two arcs they'll be back
Tao Pai Pai I'll give, but it was incredibly minor and was in service to Tien's character. Frieza (originally) was in service to Trunks' introduction, and Piccolo came back because Goku spared him and Toriyama used him immediately in the next arc, developing him into a protagonist. Cell and the Androids I always felt had the flimsiest connection to the Red Ribbon Army; that backstory is ultimately not important outside of why they're after Goku specifically which quickly becomes unimportant.

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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:31 pm

Both Tao Pai Pai and Freeza were back for a cup of coffee prior to Super. Pilaf is such a mook, he's not the equivalent of a supervillain. His coming back is more of just an annoyance to the heroes, if that. The ones that come back and stay eventually become protagonists. That's not the same as The Riddler or Lex Luthor constantly coming back and being presented as a threat. It wasn't until Super and its insistence on keeping Freeza around.
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Re: What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:46 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:31 pm
Both Tao Pai Pai and Freeza were back for a cup of coffee prior to Super. Pilaf is such a mook, he's not the equivalent of a supervillain. His coming back is more of just an annoyance to the heroes, if that. The ones that come back and stay eventually become protagonists. That's not the same as The Riddler or Lex Luthor constantly coming back and being presented as a threat. It wasn't until Super and its insistence on keeping Freeza around.
It's kinda like what happened to the Ratchet & Clank series where, after A Crack in Time, Nefarious (previously the fan-favourite) became THE R&C villain, which became contrived when he was killed off in CiT only to be brought back as a playable character in All 4 One. By that point the fans became sick of him so they moved away for the next two games... only for the movie to then bring him back as the string-puller.

Basically Nefarious, like Frieza, went from the Iconic Villain of the Franchise to THE Villain of the Franchise that they brought back under contrived circumstances.

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