What if dragon ball was a comic book series?

[Hellspawn28]

I think the topic would be better if it was "What if Dragon Ball was written as a superhero comic series?" because not all comics are superhero comics. You have many comics that are not superhero books at all and even some comics are based on real life stories like Palestine (1993-1995).

[Matches Malone]

If manga was written like comics, we'd lose the personal touch of the mangaka in favor of company wide mandated stories. Instead of one author and their editor being the only people on a book, you'd have a rotating door of writers and artists with various degrees of quality and consistency. Manag would also lose its sense of progression and change in favor of a set status quo that stays more or less the same. Manga would cost a lot more than it does now as we'd get single issues for $3-$5 compared to the Tankobon that's sold for that price or a bit more for 10+ issues.

[Brodes]

There are tons, tons, tons of comics out there, even in the superhero world, that have one creative team and that's it. Comics are not will never be just "superhero".

Also what's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

There are tons, tons, tons of comics out there, even in the superhero world, that have one creative team and that's it. Comics are not will never be just "superhero".

Also what's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

This. Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory. They're why the story shifted away from adventure/exploration to fate of the world one on one combat and why characters like Vegeta were kept around. That's just the reality of writing for a company; your editor will be making a lot of choices about where you'll be taking your story. It's not unique to western serials.

[ABED]

There are tons, tons, tons of comics out there, even in the superhero world, that have one creative team and that's it. Comics are not will never be just "superhero".

Also what's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

This. Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory. They're why the story shifted away from adventure/exploration to fate of the world one on one combat and why characters like Vegeta were kept around. That's just the reality of writing for a company; your editor will be making a lot of choices about where you'll be taking your story. It's not unique to western serials.

To the best of my knowledge they gave input. Toriyama didn't have to take it.

[funrush]

The main difference would be the introduction of inconsistency. American comic books are (in?)famous for constantly changing writers and artists really often. DB would have different writers/artists every arc or two and a lot of things would be a lot different. The artstyle would change drastically, as would characterization. Goku's change from Z to Super would look minor in comparison. Chances are that as soon as it changed hands from Toriyama (probably either the Red Ribbon arc or the 22nd Budokai arc), it would peter off really fast and never become the sensation it became.

It also wouldn't have defined shonen manga the way it did. Many aspects in later shonen manga are directly or indirectly inspired by DBZ. It's why every shonen seems to have a goddamn tournament arc. I just started reading that Dr. Stone manga that everyone's been buzzing about, even that has a tournament arc!!! Timeskips, powercreep, these things were accidentally made shonen law by Dragon Ball, and if it were a western comic instead, the outcome of manga history would turn out much differently.

[Matches Malone]

What's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

Mangaka have an editor or 2 they work with, and that's about it. Comics on the other hand have to deal with company wide mandates. For example, Toriyama and other writers could be told that their main characters have to be changed for a few months in favor of someone else, they could be told that in the summer every series' most recognized villain has to be front and center, they could be told that there's a status quo they have to keep intact, etc. These are things Toriyama and other Mangaka don't have to deal with.

Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory.

They didn't force him to do anything, they gave feedback and he respected them enough to take it into account. Working with an editor is very different from the company wide mandates comic writers have to deal with.

[Polyphase Avatron]

What's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

Mangaka have an editor or 2 they work with, and that's about it. Comics on the other hand have to deal with company wide mandates. For example, Toriyama and other writers could be told that their main characters have to be changed for a few months in favor of someone else, they could be told that in the summer every series' most recognized villain has to be front and center, they could be told that there's a status quo they have to keep intact, etc. These are things Toriyama and other Mangaka don't have to deal with.

On the other hand, you get giant crossover events.

[MasenkoHA]

There are tons, tons, tons of comics out there, even in the superhero world, that have one creative team and that's it. Comics are not will never be just "superhero".

Also what's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

This. Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory. They're why the story shifted away from adventure/exploration to fate of the world one on one combat and why characters like Vegeta were kept around. That's just the reality of writing for a company; your editor will be making a lot of choices about where you'll be taking your story. It's not unique to western serials.

Pretty sure his editors didn’t dictate anything.

The closest thing is the whole Cyborg thing but that wasn’t forced on him.

[Matches Malone]

On the other hand, you get giant crossover events.

"Event" rossovers are usually terrible and just ruin the flow of every book and character they're involved with.

[kemuri07]

What's with the weird "but editors and being told what to do" as if mangaka don't have editors that interfere when they need to.

Mangaka have an editor or 2 they work with, and that's about it. Comics on the other hand have to deal with company wide mandates. For example, Toriyama and other writers could be told that their main characters have to be changed for a few months in favor of someone else, they could be told that in the summer every series' most recognized villain has to be front and center, they could be told that there's a status quo they have to keep intact, etc. These are things Toriyama and other Mangaka don't have to deal with.

Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory.

They didn't force him to do anything, they gave feedback and he respected them enough to take it into account. Working with an editor is very different from the company wide mandates comic writers have to deal with.

Think that has a lot more to do with the fact that Toriyama was putting out one of the "big three" than that having anything to do with a laid-back relationship between mangaka and their editors. And even then, I don't really buy that Toriyama wasn't under pressure to produce content or to keep DB going because--it's all about the benjamins no matter how you slice it.

[Polyphase Avatron]

On the other hand, you get giant crossover events.

"Event" rossovers are usually terrible and just ruin the flow of every book and character they're involved with.

Maybe the post-2010 ones. But they used to be amazing.

[ABED]

How do crossovers ruin the flow and the characters they're involved with?

[Robo4900]

Toriyama's editors dictated a lot of DB's trajectory.

They didn't force him to do anything, they gave feedback and he respected them enough to take it into account. Working with an editor is very different from the company wide mandates comic writers have to deal with.

Yeah.

I think Toriyama's editors were more like the role of a producer on a TV show or something; they work with the creatives and make suggestions, as a collaborator, to try to help the creator realise their creation in the best possible way.
Doesn't always work out the best, but in theory, good collaboration will often lead to better work.

In my opinion, Toriyama should never work without a collaborator like his editors of old, and I think a lot of the reason Super has been so bad is because around him just aren't giving him the feedback he needs to get the best out of his stories. Which is also why Broly, with its first draft written by Toriyama, then drafted by screenwriters at Toei, was so good. And it's also why the Super manga, which is co-authored by the very talented Toyotaro, has done so many great things with some very poor storylines.

How do crossovers ruin the flow and the characters they're involved with?

They don't. Not usually, anyway. Though a really bad crossover storyline can feel like it's done some damage.

[Matches Malone]

I don't really buy that Toriyama wasn't under pressure to produce content or to keep DB going because--it's all about the benjamins no matter how you slice it.

He was, and he even said so himself. The difference is that he wasn't forced to follow a company mandate that had to also line up with what other writers were doing, it was just him and his editor working together to put out the best story they could.

How do crossovers ruin the flow and the characters they're involved with?

Look at DC's Metal event, that's still heavily influencing everything despite being 3 years old. Rebirth was also heavily featured across multiple titles back when it first came out. In 2015, DC had a company wide "DCYOU" initiative that forced every writer to change their lead character in a major was. Batman lost his memory, Superman lost his powers, etc.

I'm not a fan of comics' whole "shared universe" concept and company mandates that forces everything to line up a certain way. It results in the books losing the author's voice in favor of the company's. Imagine if a big bad in One Piece was about to get killed off, say Black Beard, and to get the most out of the event, Shonen Jump mandated that every book kill off a major villain the same week Black Beard dies. That would completely destroy the flow of all books involved as each author will have their plans completely thrown off. I'll use DB as an example, Imagine what would've happened to the books back then if Jump forced their authors to make a massive time skip due to Goku growing up that week ?

In my opinion, Toriyama should never work without a collaborator like his editors of old, and I think a lot of the reason Super has been so bad is because around him just aren't giving him the feedback he needs to get the best out of his stories.

I think Toriyama's name is too big for anyone to give him feedback, even if he wants it. The manga benefited a great deal from his editors keeping things in check and pushing him to put out the best stories he could. The BOG movie was written alongside a screenwriter who never did anything else for the franchise after that one movie.

[ABED]

Look at DC's Metal event, that's still heavily influencing everything despite being 3 years old. Rebirth was also heavily featured across multiple titles back when it first came out. In 2015, DC had a company wide "DCYOU" initiative that forced every writer to change their lead character in a major was. Batman lost his memory, Superman lost his powers, etc.

I'm not a fan of comics' whole "shared universe" concept and company mandates that forces everything to line up a certain way. It results in the books losing the author's voice in favor of the company's. Imagine if a big bad in One Piece was about to get killed off, say Black Beard, and to get the most out of the event, Shonen Jump mandated that every book kill off a major villain the same week Black Beard dies. That would completely destroy the flow of all books involved as each author will have their plans completely thrown off. I'll use DB as an example, Imagine what would've happened to the books back then if Jump forced their authors to make a massive time skip due to Goku growing up that week ?

The problem is continuity. There's too much emphasis on it. There's also too much long form storytelling and writers have forgotten the art of single issue stories. I love shared universes. I like seeing characters interact with each other in interesting ways. The problem of how shared universes are used often today is the stories cross between books or series, so you have to read almost all of it to get the complete story. Instead of using the cross overs to just have characters interact that don't usually, it becomes the story. The magic of the MCU is in making the audience believe they needed to see it all when in fact they didn't. It's not all one 22 movie story. Hell, even phase one wasn't a single story.

What's bizarre about DC's big events is they are often about dealing with convoluted continuity that they never really cared about in the first place. The issue isn't shared universes, it's execution. If Goku met Luffy in a story that didn't have much of an effect on the ongoing stories in each respective book, it's can be a lot of fun for the audience. Dr. Slump and DB live in the same world. It doesn't affect things much, but it's a joy seeing those characters interact.

[Matches Malone]

The issue isn't shared universes, it's execution. If Goku met Luffy in a story that didn't have much of an effect on the ongoing stories in each respective book, it's can be a lot of fun for the audience.

I have no problems with crossovers that don't impact the main books. My issue would be if Luffy met Goku then the Namek arc for example was continued in part in One Piece due to that meeting. Rebirth starts as a single issue, then is continued in multiple books, before concluding in Doomsday Clock. If I'm reading Superman, I shouldn't have to jump into Batman and Flash to understand the story, just have that whole story be its own book.

[ABED]

Agreed, although nowadays, everything like this seems like it is eventually put in a trade paperback or omnibus, so that's less of an issue, but I get your point.

[kemuri07]

I don't really buy that Toriyama wasn't under pressure to produce content or to keep DB going because--it's all about the benjamins no matter how you slice it.

He was, and he even said so himself. The difference is that he wasn't forced to follow a company mandate that had to also line up with what other writers were doing, it was just him and his editor working together to put out the best story they could.

But that's kinda the same thing. Pressure comes on top to continue a manga, or go in a direction that will ensure its continuing popularity--whether or not its creator agrees with it or not. Considering how ruthlessly competitive Shonen Jump was and still is, the idea that the higher-ups mostly left Toriyama alone doesn't really make any sense. It's still a business, one that I don't particularly like, but it's business all the same.

Also, the problem with comparing the DC crossovers with Jump Crossovers--Luffy and Goku don't share the same world. The Flash and Batman, however, do. So there's an attempt to have each and every book line up with each other to form a single narrative. However, there's also plenty of books that either do alt-history, re-imaginings of characters that often have nothing to do with the overall canon.

[ABED]

Regardless of design, I think putting superheroes in the same world is inherently easier than something like other properties whose worlds are so vastly different in feel. It makes a lot of sense that superheroes would live in a world with other superheroes. In fact, I would argue that it would be silly if they didn't.