Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

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Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Psajdak » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:02 am

Like, that DB is again as relevant as it was in 80s, and 90s, and that it is only a matter of time new title will get announced?

What makes you think that that's it, and Heroes is the only thing we will get anime-wise for next few decades?

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:08 am

I dont, but I dont care because Super's success has allowed anime to thrive into another boom. And that's all I care about.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:54 am

From what I can see the relationship between Dragon Ball and other manga/anime has flipped. The days of DB as the standard setter are entirely over. Artists and animators moving into the field aren't looking at Super and saying "wow! I want to make my own version of that!"

But that aside, yeah DB is more relevant today than it's been in years. On the subway just last week I overheard two MTA employees arguing over why it didn't make sense for Cell to regenerate to the level he does. I can't really express how pleased it made me to see two people having the same argument I had back in high school. And, on a even dorkier note, soooo many Dragonball fics I thought were dead have started updating in the last couple years. I may not like Super but I'm grateful it exists all the same
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:38 am

I'm sure the term "Golden Age" is HEAVILY contentious, but there's no denying that the amount of output is closer to what was seen in the 80s and 90s when the franchise first started.

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:10 pm

I don't think Dragon Ball really ever had a particular "golden age"... If it did, that would really apply to the entire original run, which until recently, meant that the entirety of the Dragon Ball franchise was a golden age, which is just silly.
The entire original run is a beloved pop culture phenomenon (less so for the first two fifths in the west, due to Funimation practically killing its chances of success with their bare hands) that changed anime forever and still holds up, and I think calling any portion of it a "golden era" is just an insult to all of the rest of it. (One could point out various storytelling problems with the Cell and Boo arcs, the various flaws with GT, the fact Dragon Ball hadn't found its identity in the initial 23-chapter/13-episode storyline yet, etc., but ultimately those are rather small portions of the overall run, and saying they're "not part of the golden age" would be more a case of trying to exclude stuff you don't like rather than calling out any specific portion as actually being a "golden age")

However, putting that aside, there is the central question of how the modern run stands up to the original.
To begin to answer that, let's break down what the new run so far has amounted to:
  • An OVA that was pretty much just a modern take on something like DBZ episode 288; a comfortable little breather/post-happily-ever-after story of little consequence. Really just a nostalgia trip of no real substance. (Nothing wrong with that really, it was a pretty neat little thing to come out in 2008)
  • An OVA that acted as a sequel to one of the popular TV specials, but essentially is just a JK Rowling type "btw here's some meaningless lore bullshit" thing with no substance. The only reason it exists is to have a "canonical" work where Bardock goes Super Saiyan.
  • A remake of the Plan OVA from 1993, but without any of the weird, fun alternate endings or paths.
  • Kai, a wholesale rehash of the most merchandisable part of the original run, essentially acting as a shortcut to remastering it in HD, and a way to get "new" Dragon Ball on TV without having to put in the effort of making a new show. Aside from various dubbing studios getting a second go around at material they screwed up last time, it's a fairly pointless rehash.
  • A pretty okay movie in 2013 that brought about the one, single status quo change we've had in the franchise since it originally ended in '97.
  • A pretty shit sequel in 2015.
  • A rehash of those movies but stretched out into 27 episodes of TV.
  • A bland tournament storyline with no stakes or consequences.
  • Future Trunks vs Evil Goku: Or How To Do A Pretty Dumb But Ultimately Cool Buildup To The Most Shit Ending Possible
  • A pretty flashy tournament storyline with no stakes or consequences.
  • A pretty great movie in 2018/2019.
Given the original run was a revolutionary pop culture phenomenon that changed the face of shonen anime forever, inspired pretty much every creative individual with even a vague interest in animation or Japanese media, and despite being essentially just something Toriyama did after he was already super-rich off Dr Slump to entertain some kids and tell some fun stories, it still holds up today as a really fun manga and anime with a lot of character depth and enough variety that you could never possibly get bored of any one status quo or character lineup...
Well... A lot of people enjoy the new run, but you really can't compare the modern era to the original run. It doesn't have any of the variety, risk, impact, or honestly any of the creativity of the original run. It's all either rehashing old stuff or just an excuse to have fan favourite characters fight a strong opponent. In other words, the modern run is essentially a completely franchise revival modelled after the least-interesting of the original movies. And just like those movies, they are often quite enjoyable, but they ain't it, chief.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:20 pm

I wouldn't say that the franchise has really had a particular golden age either, it's effectively a franchise that has gone in and out of popularity in cycles both in Japan and here in the States.

It's more or less gone like this:

1984-1995/1986-1997- Original manga/anime run plus video games and merchandise run/up-down popularity in Japan, intro in the U.S.

1998-2002- Quiet period in Japan, height of initial popularity in U.S, 1998-2005

2002-??? Revival on all fronts in Japan, on and off here between series, manga and games through Kai and Super's run 2005-2019.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:30 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:20 pm
I wouldn't say that the franchise has really had a particular golden age, it's effectively a franchise that has gone in and out popularity in cycles both in Japan and here in the States.

1984-1995/1986-1997- Original manga and anime run/up-down popularity in Japan, intro in the U.S.
1998-2002- Quiet period in Japan, height of initial popularity in U.S
2002-??? Revival on both fronts in Japan, on and off here between series, manga and games.
So you're saying that it went into popularity when it was originally running, fell out of popularity when it stopped running, then came back into popularity when it was starting to run again? :lol:

Sorry, I'm just not seeing your point here.

Especially in regards to how it's run in the west. Remember, GT ended in the west in 2005, and Funi were still redubbing movies and such into 2007, then we started getting stuff like the Yo Son Goku OVA in 2008-2011, and Kai begain 2009, so... The west didn't really have much of a dead period unless you were hardcore into the fansubs and had already watched GT before Funimation had even finished with Freeza. And even then, that'd just be for you; the English world in general was still just watching it on TV as it aired, so it was still at its height in general, debuting new material. The UK didn't reach the end of original-run Dragon Ball material until 2006, only three or four years before Kai hit.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:34 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:30 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:20 pm
I wouldn't say that the franchise has really had a particular golden age, it's effectively a franchise that has gone in and out popularity in cycles both in Japan and here in the States.

1984-1995/1986-1997- Original manga and anime run/up-down popularity in Japan, intro in the U.S.
1998-2002- Quiet period in Japan, height of initial popularity in U.S
2002-??? Revival on both fronts in Japan, on and off here between series, manga and games.
So you're saying that it went into popularity when it was originally running, fell out of popularity when it stopped running, then came back into popularity when it was starting to run again? :lol:

Sorry, I'm just not seeing your point here.

Especially in regards to how it's run in the west. Remember, GT ended in the west in 2005, and Funi were still redubbing movies and such into 2007, then we started getting stuff like the Yo Son Goku OVA in 2008-2011, and Kai begain 2009, so... The west didn't really have much of a dead period unless you were hardcore into the fansubs and had already watched GT before Funimation had even finished with Freeza. And even then, that'd just be for you; the English world in general was still just watching it on TV as it aired, so it was still at its height, debuting new material. The UK didn't reach the end of its Dragon Ball material until 2006, only three or four years before Kai hit, and Funi did their in-house redubs of DBZ 1-67 and the first three Z movies around 2006/2007, so they were running right up to Kai as well.
Um ok, well then apparently i wasn't thinking of everything that has occurred specifically and omitted large chunks of the series history on both sides and not considering all of what you mentioned there when posting my response to your post above.

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:38 pm

Any Golden Age would have been before the series was popular, so about 1984-1988. Right now we're just back into another fad era, which is whatever. I don't really care if Dragon Ball is popular so long as it is good and we get exciting new characters like Super has brought along.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:51 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:38 pm
Any Golden Age would have been before the series was popular, so about 1984-1988.
Why? Popularity and golden ages aren't antithetical.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Toxin45 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:38 pm

It’s pretty alright

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by The Iron Fjord » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:32 am

Dragon Ball's Golden Age (and I use that term fairly loosely) was the 90s. Insanely popular in Japan from 1990-1998 in Japan, while gaining popularity in NA with the dub from 98-04. Dragon Ball's resurgence in the 10's is more of a Dragon Ball Renaissance, with three new movies, a new manga series, and a new series.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Kakacarrottop » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:26 am

First golden age = 1986-1997 (original run of the anime trilogy)

Second golden age = 1999-2004 (DBZ's peak popularity in the west)

Third golden age = 2015-2018 (Dragon Ball Super airs and makes the series relevant again outside of video games, nostalgia for the second golden age grows during this period as well)
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:33 am

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:26 am
First golden age = 1986-1997 (original run of the anime trilogy)

Second golden age = 1999-2004 (DBZ's peak popularity in the west)

Third golden age = 2015-2018 (Dragon Ball Super airs and makes the series relevant again outside of video games, nostalgia for the second golden age grows during this period as well)
It can't be golden age all of the time :lol:

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:40 am

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:26 am
Second golden age = 1999-2004 (DBZ's peak popularity in the west)
Wouldn't that be the Dork Ages?

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Kakacarrottop » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:54 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:33 am
Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:26 am
First golden age = 1986-1997 (original run of the anime trilogy)

Second golden age = 1999-2004 (DBZ's peak popularity in the west)

Third golden age = 2015-2018 (Dragon Ball Super airs and makes the series relevant again outside of video games, nostalgia for the second golden age grows during this period as well)
It can't be golden age all of the time :lol:
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:40 am
Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:26 am
Second golden age = 1999-2004 (DBZ's peak popularity in the west)
Wouldn't that be the Dork Ages?
Ignoring how popular Dragon Ball was in the west during 1999-2004 would be like ignoring the Pokemania era of 1999-2000. It might not have correlated with the Japanese popularity as was the case with Pokemon, but it's clearly a significant period where the show was so big it was being referenced in contemporary media.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:07 am

I don't know about popularity, but in terms of quality, it surely is silver age at best, thanks to another medium for that. Without it, we'd probably be witnessing the bronze age or worse.
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What makes you think that that's it, and Heroes is the only thing we will get anime-wise for next few decades?
I think it would be great, if only they make the Heroes anime a full-fledged one.
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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by SSJgogeto » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:57 am

Instead of "Silver Age", I think "Fool's Gold Age" is a better term in this situation.

Well, Dragon Ball is still popular and makes a lot of money, but seems like it isn't as inspiring as before, at least in Japan. So it's hard to me to say for sure.

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 pm

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:54 am
Ignoring how popular Dragon Ball was in the west during 1999-2004 would be like ignoring the Pokemania era of 1999-2000. It might not have correlated with the Japanese popularity as was the case with Pokemon, but it's clearly a significant period where the show was so big it was being referenced in contemporary media.
I mean that's why I gave it a name at all. I am of course thankful that it's how I got exposed to the franchise, but a lot of people would say that a lot more harm than good was done during this era, primarily the poor dub, the erasure of the Ocean Cast dub, and the replacement dub's distribution via the Orange Bricks and later the Blu-Ray Season sets, both of which were mired in controversy. Oh and the games turned into a glut of copy/paste fighting action games that helped establish the "Anime Bargain Bin" genre that IMO wasn't broken for Dragon Ball until FighterZ came out. Oh and Evolution came out during this period too.

On the opposite side Japan FINALLY got the show on home media and in not too bad a quality either, so there was that at least.

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Re: Do you actually believe that we are currently in some second Dragon Ball golden age?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:28 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 pm
Kakacarrottop wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:54 am
Ignoring how popular Dragon Ball was in the west during 1999-2004 would be like ignoring the Pokemania era of 1999-2000. It might not have correlated with the Japanese popularity as was the case with Pokemon, but it's clearly a significant period where the show was so big it was being referenced in contemporary media.
I mean that's why I gave it a name at all. I am of course thankful that it's how I got exposed to the franchise, but a lot of people would say that a lot more harm than good was done during this era, primarily the poor dub, the erasure of the Ocean Cast dub, and the replacement dub's distribution via the Orange Bricks and later the Blu-Ray Season sets, both of which were mired in controversy. Oh and the games turned into a glut of copy/paste fighting action games that helped establish the "Anime Bargain Bin" genre that IMO wasn't broken for Dragon Ball until FighterZ came out. Oh and Evolution came out during this period too.

On the opposite side Japan FINALLY got the show on home media and in not too bad a quality either, so there was that at least.
I really wish the west had gotten Toriyama's Goku back in the late 90s. "Ha! You all thought Homer getting raped by a panda was as stupid as a character could get. Now bask in the glory that is Son Goku, First Among Dipshits!"
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