Yet Another Dub Error

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Metalwario64
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:13 pm

samuraix123 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:54 pm
The problem with the Single DVDs is price and availability. At this point, some "Frieza" discs are low in availability, and stupidly expensive as a result (one is up to $60 on both Amazon and eBay!), so it can be a time-consuming and expensive endeavor at this point.

It's sad, because I've gotten really nostalgic for the dub again, and I never got more than two Frieza discs back when I collected them, so I'm screwed there regardless of losing a number of my singles (I still have most of the Cell Games ones, but those had redubbed Kelly anyway).

I guess I'm just stuck with the Bricks. At least I have a separate nostalgia for them at this point, regardless of how much of a poor product it is.
I don't know if you want too or not but why not upgrade to the Season sets on bluray? In my opinion they a lot better than the orange bricks buuuut I understand not wanting to support another cropped up release and lord only knows how much the 4x3 sets are going for by scalpers. I actually didn't know the older DVDs were getting expensive I would have sold em cheap to you because I own so many different releases
Yeah, 4 of them I believe are getting pricey, but I have seen them sell for $15 occasionally in the sold history on eBay. The thing is, I don't feel like stalking eBay, and saving searches only seems to give me an e-mail alert to new listings once a week or so.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by samuraix123 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:15 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:13 pm
samuraix123 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:54 pm
The problem with the Single DVDs is price and availability. At this point, some "Frieza" discs are low in availability, and stupidly expensive as a result (one is up to $60 on both Amazon and eBay!), so it can be a time-consuming and expensive endeavor at this point.

It's sad, because I've gotten really nostalgic for the dub again, and I never got more than two Frieza discs back when I collected them, so I'm screwed there regardless of losing a number of my singles (I still have most of the Cell Games ones, but those had redubbed Kelly anyway).

I guess I'm just stuck with the Bricks. At least I have a separate nostalgia for them at this point, regardless of how much of a poor product it is.
I don't know if you want too or not but why not upgrade to the Season sets on bluray? In my opinion they a lot better than the orange bricks buuuut I understand not wanting to support another cropped up release and lord only knows how much the 4x3 sets are going for by scalpers. I actually didn't know the older DVDs were getting expensive I would have sold em cheap to you because I own so many different releases
Yeah, 4 of them I believe are getting pricey, but I have seen them sell for $15 occasionally in the sold history on eBay. The thing is, I don't feel like stalking eBay, and saving searches only seems to give me an e-mail alert to new listings once a week or so.
Well if you send me a message privately so I don't derail this topic, if I'm out and about and see em I'll pick em up for you without charging you an arm and leg like everyone else. I pretty much own all the Z releases so I feel like it wouldn't be right to help someone else out. :thumbup:
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:49 am

samuraix123 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:54 pm
The problem with the Single DVDs is price and availability. At this point, some "Frieza" discs are low in availability, and stupidly expensive as a result (one is up to $60 on both Amazon and eBay!), so it can be a time-consuming and expensive endeavor at this point.

It's sad, because I've gotten really nostalgic for the dub again, and I never got more than two Frieza discs back when I collected them, so I'm screwed there regardless of losing a number of my singles (I still have most of the Cell Games ones, but those had redubbed Kelly anyway).

I guess I'm just stuck with the Bricks. At least I have a separate nostalgia for them at this point, regardless of how much of a poor product it is.
I don't know if you want too or not but why not upgrade to the Season sets on bluray? In my opinion they a lot better than the orange bricks buuuut I understand not wanting to support another cropped up release and lord only knows how much the 4x3 sets are going for by scalpers. I actually didn't know the older DVDs were getting expensive I would have sold em cheap to you because I own so many different releases
They really aren't better, though.
Like, you could argue that they're better, in some ways, kind of. In others they're worse. Way worse, arguably. It's not really an upgrade. Arguably a sidegrade?... If you own one, there's no reason to get the other, really.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:58 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:37 pm
samuraix123 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:34 pm
If I'm not mistaken the season sets has a missing title on one of the episodes haha
Yep. Episode 164.
For the Blurays or Orange Bricks?

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:00 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:58 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:37 pm
samuraix123 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:34 pm
If I'm not mistaken the season sets has a missing title on one of the episodes haha
Yep. Episode 164.
For the Blurays or Orange Bricks?
Only the Blu-ray. The Orange Brick has every title intact in the English side and the Japanese side.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:02 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:00 am
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:58 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:37 pm


Yep. Episode 164.
For the Blurays or Orange Bricks?
Only the Blu-ray. The Orange Brick has every title intact in the English side and the Japanese side.
Oh, good. I only have the Orange Bricks and while I know they're far from the best, they're perfectly fine for what I have and I dont wanna double dip.

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:13 am

Yeah, while the Blu-ray sets technically most of the time have more detail in the footage, it's also riddled with strange edges and remnants of the grain which makes it look terrible in motion (especially when they employ shoddy motion tracking to counterbalance the cropping, which makes it look nauseating in motion). Plus season six onward is very out of focus and pale looking, whereas at that point the bricks look much more film-like, though with over-saturated colors and crushed blacks. But the texture of the film in those episodes looks so nice.

I'm rewatching the dub via the bricks as we speak, and honestly, the disappearing lines in the early sets are their biggest issue, but there's still some texture in seasons 3-5, and it overall feels more like film than the Blu-rays. It's just a shame that seasons one and two look so terrible most of the time (both seasons have batches of decent looking episodes though).

I kind of wish FUNimation had just released raw scans of their masters on DVD with all three audio options instead of the Dragon Boxes, because then they probably would have replaced the orange bricks due to not having to be a limited release, and we might be in a better spot with the franchise. I know it's not the Dragon Boxes' fault, but I like the colors of FUNimation's film better anyway, and it would have been a very solid DVD release with their prints and a good encode.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Valerius Dover » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:58 am

The different music placement is mostly the placement originally intended by the Faulconer crew. Episode 70 seems to be the one exception. Who knows what happened there? Still, aside from that, how much is really different? I haven't seen the original.

What's odd about the voice filters is that not all of them are missing. Isn't it possible that some of these were deliberate changes? 19 was also missing his filter in Budokai 1, and Buu has never had the filter in the games to my knowledge. Frieza was almost never filtered even in the 2nd form in the games.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Kakacarrottop » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:36 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:32 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:17 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:10 pm
So wait, you're telling me that the crappy, sloppily-done, rushed to market Orange Bricks are technically not even FINISHED!?!
Yep. They literally used unfinished production materials when assembling the "Remastered" dub. It's a shockingly bad job.
Tylerman29 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:49 pm
Yikes...as if I needed another reason not to watch the DBZ dub or listen to "broadcast" score again. It's honestly such a mess that hunting down the original singles might be the best way to watch it in that manner.
Yeah.

You do have the right idea there, though; if anyone wants to seek out the original USA broadcast experience, the singles are the way to do it. It's the original dub, as it was originally produced in 1999-2002, uncut, with both the original English dub, and of course it contains the Japanese version subbed (though it's dub-only for Z episodes 1-53/1-67, since the singles of those episodes are the Saban dub and are dub-only; does also mean there's about 10 more minutes of Faulconer-scored OG Funi material that most people don't hear at all these days, since dub episode 53 stops half-way through uncut #67, so the DVD single version of episode 54 is like 31 minutes long so it immediately snaps into sync with uncut, and the TV version split its episodes up weirdly so it doesn't line up with uncut until like episode 58. The uncut redub of 1-67 did the entirety of #67, so you cut to the 1999 stuff at the start of uncut #68) and it's all in 4:3.
That's why labeling the Orange Brick and onward dub w/ U.S music track as the "broadcast track" has always never made sense to me, considering what's there is not what had previously been on those single DVD's or aired edited on Toonami from 1999 to 2003. Aside from the half assed nature of the partial re dub there's all those missing vocal effects and other things you mentioned above including some errors.

Given that, the singles are the only way to view the OG in house version of the dub amauturely acted and everything though it may be.
I've even heard the mid-2000s redub of the Saiyan Saga w/ the Nathan Johnson score being touted as the Toonami broadcast track. And younger people who think 96-98 Ocean was a completely separate Canadian thing probably do believe that it was what first aired on Toonami.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:21 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:58 am
The different music placement is mostly the placement originally intended by the Faulconer crew.
You're technically right, but this is a somewhat deceptive thing (I'm sure you don't mean this intentionally, though; it's an easy misconception).
The truth is, Team Faulconer would put together the score, but I believe after the voices were laid down, some of the Faulconer crew would go back to it and refine the placements. Sometimes this would be quite big, sometimes it'd just be tiny changes.
This is the step Funi lost. It'd be like if a missing episode of Doctor Who was restaged, but the scripts they worked off of were the draft before the final. Yes, it is a version the original writer wrote, but you're missing a step, potentially a vital one, and you're not accurately representing what was originally broadcast. Which is a pretty serious, fundamental error.
Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:58 am
What's odd about the voice filters is that not all of them are missing. Isn't it possible that some of these were deliberate changes? 19 was also missing his filter in Budokai 1, and Buu has never had the filter in the games to my knowledge. Frieza was almost never filtered even in the 2nd form in the games.
It'd be odd if it was intentional. For one thing, it means the "Broadcast" track is even further from actually representing something close to the original US broadcast. For another, the voice filters were partially used back in the day to disguise how small their cast was, so removing those kind of exposes that flaw (note that Super Boo sounds suspiciously similar to Raditz when he doesn't have a filter on :lol:). And for yet another, even if it is intentional, it ultimately all just plays into a George Lucas-esque revisionism where Funi decided that they wanted to take a mulligan on this stuff that people really grew attached to in 1999-2002. There are clear, evident mistakes in the remastered dubs (missing lines, wrong takes used, wrong lines used, etc. I think there's even one or two cases of sound effects being removed?), so I would assume the missing voice filters are part of that. But if they're not, then they're much like the awful partial redub that ultimately did more harm than good.

So... Ultimately, regardless of intent, the "remastered" dub is a pretty shit job, honestly, and the voice filters are part of the problem.
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Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by ikaos » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm

There's a lot of random inconsistencies with the Remastered dub that basically speak to it being haphazardly thrown together from multiple elements with little regard for consistency (ironic because the whole selling point of being a "remastered" dub is to create that consistency). An example I found recently is the flashback from episode 169 (to a moment in episode 29). The script for the Saban/Ocean dub and the UUE redub of the original scene in episode 29 are basically the same, and the flashback in the OG dub in 169 follows it. But the remastered dub changes the entire scene, despite NOT changing the original lines, and on top of that a few lines aren't redubbed, so parts of the convo don't make sense.

I made a quick video showcasing the different versions: https://streamable.com/l6ixr Note how in the remastered dub of 169 Goku's line of "I'm glad you think so" doesn't match what Gohan just said, because Gohan's line was changed, but Goku's wasn't, even though Goku's line in the flashback just seconds later IS changed.

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:50 pm

ikaos wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm
There's a lot of random inconsistencies with the Remastered dub that basically speak to it being haphazardly thrown together from multiple elements with little regard for consistency (ironic because the whole selling point of being a "remastered" dub is to create that consistency). An example I found recently is the flashback from episode 169 (to a moment in episode 29). The script for the Saban/Ocean dub and the UUE redub of the original scene in episode 29 are basically the same, and the flashback in the OG dub in 169 follows it. But the remastered dub changes the entire scene, despite NOT changing the original lines, and on top of that a few lines aren't redubbed, so parts of the convo don't make sense.

I made a quick video showcasing the different versions: https://streamable.com/l6ixr Note how in the remastered dub of 169 Goku's line of "I'm glad you think so" doesn't match what Gohan just said, because Gohan's line was changed, but Goku's wasn't, even though Goku's line in the flashback just seconds later IS changed.
Yeah, I mentioned that a few times. Do you know if the "consistent" version was the one that aired on TV? I know it's the one on the single DVD, but they were already redubbing stuff at that point, and I seem to recall the "fishing" lines being what I saw as a kid, because I was so confused as to why the lines were different. Krillin in the single DVD version does kind of sound closer to 2005 Ultimate Uncut Strait more than the nasally Cell-arc voice he had.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by ikaos » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:48 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:50 pm
ikaos wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm
There's a lot of random inconsistencies with the Remastered dub that basically speak to it being haphazardly thrown together from multiple elements with little regard for consistency (ironic because the whole selling point of being a "remastered" dub is to create that consistency). An example I found recently is the flashback from episode 169 (to a moment in episode 29). The script for the Saban/Ocean dub and the UUE redub of the original scene in episode 29 are basically the same, and the flashback in the OG dub in 169 follows it. But the remastered dub changes the entire scene, despite NOT changing the original lines, and on top of that a few lines aren't redubbed, so parts of the convo don't make sense.

I made a quick video showcasing the different versions: https://streamable.com/l6ixr Note how in the remastered dub of 169 Goku's line of "I'm glad you think so" doesn't match what Gohan just said, because Gohan's line was changed, but Goku's wasn't, even though Goku's line in the flashback just seconds later IS changed.
Yeah, I mentioned that a few times. Do you know if the "consistent" version was the one that aired on TV? I know it's the one on the single DVD, but they were already redubbing stuff at that point, and I seem to recall the "fishing" lines being what I saw as a kid, because I was so confused as to why the lines were different. Krillin in the single DVD version does kind of sound closer to 2005 Ultimate Uncut Strait more than the nasally Cell-arc voice he had.
The only things redubbed from TV/VHS on the DVD singles are Dale Kelly narrations from between episodes 172 and 194, so yeah the "consistent" one was on TV. I believe the more accurate "fishing" lines from the Remastered dub might not have been a redub but instead an alternate take (because Sean Schemmel allegedly didn't redub anything after the UUE episodes).

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:12 am

I see, I thought it might have been like the Garlic Jr. arc line about Gohan and Piccolo hating each other, which was corrected for the home release and future airings.

Yeah. I guess it was the first take, but then they remembered that the lines were altered originally and rushed to change it. But they don't have the "corrected" lines for the "remastered" dub, and are stuck with the first take.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Fionordequester » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am

So, here's my question. Who here has what episodes on the Singles? If there was ever a comparison done on line changes, it might be helpful to know who has what, so no one has to drop $60 on like, three episodes, you know?
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am
So, here's my question. Who here has what episodes on the Singles? If there was ever a comparison done on line changes, it might be helpful to know who has what, so no one has to drop $60 on like, three episodes, you know?
I think I have most of the Cell Games discs, except the last one. I have the disc with the Vegetto episodes, and a couple of Buu ones. I also have Androids - Dr. Gero (it was a tape I had as a kid, so I definitely made sure to keep the single DVD when I got it several years ago), and I think another Androids one. I really need to go back and look at what I still have.

I do have the one where SS3 Goku starts fighting Kid Buu, and I recall Vegeta had a line in the brick that wasn't there in the single (I think it was "his strength is preposterous!").
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by ikaos » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:39 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am
So, here's my question. Who here has what episodes on the Singles? If there was ever a comparison done on line changes, it might be helpful to know who has what, so no one has to drop $60 on like, three episodes, you know?
I have access to all the singles and a fair amount of broadcast airings.

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by Xell » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:55 am

If I recall, there’s the scene where Cell fires the Kamehameha towards Earth and SSJ2 Gohan mutters something. However, in the dub there’s no line. This was a very long time ago when I saw this though, so I’m not 100% sure if it was fixed in the Orange Bricks and so on.

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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by samuraix123 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:51 pm

Xell wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:55 am
If I recall, there’s the scene where Cell fires the Kamehameha towards Earth and SSJ2 Gohan mutters something. However, in the dub there’s no line. This was a very long time ago when I saw this though, so I’m not 100% sure if it was fixed in the Orange Bricks and so on.
When Goku does start saying the kamehaaaaa the me line is missing but in the original broadcast and DVDs it's still there you can still hear Goku say it with like an echo effect when the shot is on Krillin however, the orange bricks and season sets decided remove it and i'm assuming it's gone from the new 4x3 sets? I haven't made it that far yet to confirm but i'm sure it'll be gone.
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Re: Yet Another Dub Error

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:15 pm

PacificOceanDub wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:02 pm
I don’t know if this has been called out before, or if this error is exclusive to the 30th anniversary set. But I just watched Episode 75 - Password is Porunga with the Dub audio. There is a brief scene where we see the deceased heroes on King Kai’s planet, celebrating that the dragon has been summoned and they’re about to be wished back. Tien’s mouth is moving but there is absolutely no dialogue to accompany the movement. Does this go back to the Season BDs, Orange Bricks? Or is this just on the 30th set? Just curious.
This error is also present on the 2014 cropped Blu Rays as well.

Also is the episode title card for episode 164 Ghosts from Tomorrow still missing on the 30th anniversary Blu Rays?

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