Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:48 pm

It's just one big mess all around especially in regards to the Orange Brick partial re dub, given that they went back and only selectively revised some earlier voice performances for the later Freeza episodes to be in sync with the preceding Ultimate Uncut versions of the Saiyan and early Namek eps while leaving others as is in their awful initial amateur hour 1999 takes (Schemmel's early Goku voice, Sabat's ogre-esque Piccolo) and thus can be considered the opposite of consistent around a certain point i.e. Future Trunks' arrival in the sense of the redub itself. And yeah, it really blows my mind that they never went back and redubbed Sleeping Princess seeing as that was literally the very first thing FUNi did with their own cast after parting from it's association with Saban and the end of the 1996 run in syndication but before the start of Season 3 on uncut/edited home video and edited Toonami broadcast many months later. It's very obvious how poorly that particular dub has aged badly as time has passed, especially when it isn't even close to being consistent with the original Dragon Ball series' dub from just a few years later in terms of characters aside from Yamcha, Roshi, kid Krillin and Oolong. Of course, that is also a result of how early on it was done after they were no longer using the Ocean cast for the voices.

Also again with saying Shuki Levy was the guy behind the Ocean dub's replacement score, when it was really Ron Wasserman who did and IIRC i don't believe Levy was credited or really had a direct hand in it.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by PacificOceanDub » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:58 pm

Wow, not sure if the whole “RTD was originally conceived as a complete collection of the original run” is true or not, but that would’ve been awesome! I totally would have and still will buy that if it ever happens. Also, I definitely prefer the Ocean versions of DBZ movies 1-3 as well. The only way ill watch those
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by Kakacarrottop » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:20 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:48 pm
Also again with saying Shuki Levy was the guy behind the Ocean dub's replacement score, when it was really Ron Wasserman who did and IIRC i don't believe Levy was credited or really had a direct hand in it.
It's an honest mistake. Firstly, In 2013 Wasserman's DBZ involvement wasn't common knowledge like it is now. Secondly, Levy and the non-existent "Kussa Mahchi" (an alias for Haim Saban) are the ones listed in the credits under "music by", while Ron Wasserman and Jeremy Sweet, the actual musicians, are listed as music producers. That's a pattern you'll see in most Saban shows from that era. For example, Udi Harpaz did the background music for the Digimon dub, while Paul Gordon sang the theme, yet they too are listed as music producers in the Digimon credits, while Shuki Levy and Kussa Mahchi are listed as composers there.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:27 am

I'm SUUUUUUPER glad that, while I lost a large chunk of my FUNimation single DVDs, I still have, and even a year or two ago finally completed my Pioneer release of the Ocean dubbed material.

It was also through these discs that I finally got to see the uncut movie 3 dub. While the TV one is what I'm nostalgic for, still having the uncut version is almost equally so for having the same (mostly) cast, and they were a great cast.

In terms of overall feelings, I think for the longest time they were the best English voice cast for Dragon Ball. While FUNimation's cast has come into their own (though I'm not too fond of Schemmel dialing up the machismo of his Goku again in recent years, and other nitpicks I have with his acting), it took them a very long time to surpass the Ocean cast. Not only that, but I was introduced to the series through this dub, and it holds an extremely special place in my heart as a result.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by Cursed Lemon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:34 am

With the exception of the hilarious censorship, the Ocean dub is a solid, well-produced production with a wealth of incredible voice talent. Corlett is a great Goku that perfectly balanced Goku's goofy and serious moments, McNeil's Piccolo is one of the best English dub performances in history, Drummond's hissy Vegeta is legendarily iconic and his screams are second to none, so on and so forth. I happen to think the music is excellent as well. I own the Rock The Dragon set and I enjoy it as the definitive way to experience the first 53 episodes.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by GhostEmperorX » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 am

Given their work on series like Inuyasha, numerous Gundam shows, Transformers anime series, and even many cartoons we all know (3 Eds for one), I would have expected them to do a lot better in DB, but maybe they should have tackled it much later after they’d gained more experience.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:51 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:34 am
With the exception of the hilarious censorship, the Ocean dub is a solid, well-produced production with a wealth of incredible voice talent. Corlett is a great Goku that perfectly balanced Goku's goofy and serious moments, McNeil's Piccolo is one of the best English dub performances in history, Drummond's hissy Vegeta is legendarily iconic and his screams are second to none, so on and so forth. I happen to think the music is excellent as well. I own the Rock The Dragon set and I enjoy it as the definitive way to experience the first 53 episodes.
Pretty much this. The other thing that doesn't get enough attention is how good the supporting cast is. The actor for Ox King if f'n perfect.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:11 am

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 am
Given their work on series like Inuyasha, numerous Gundam shows, Transformers anime series, and even many cartoons we all know (3 Eds for one), I would have expected them to do a lot better in DB, but maybe they should have tackled it much later after they’d gained more experience.
I thought the voice acting was solid. Some odd/wrong casting choices like Kaio or Roshi but other wise solid across the board. I still wish Ian Corlette, Saffron Henderson, Scott Mcneil, and Lalaina Lindjberg were still associated with their respective characters.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:02 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:11 am
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 am
Given their work on series like Inuyasha, numerous Gundam shows, Transformers anime series, and even many cartoons we all know (3 Eds for one), I would have expected them to do a lot better in DB, but maybe they should have tackled it much later after they’d gained more experience.
I thought the voice acting was solid. Some odd/wrong casting choices like Kaio or Roshi but other wise solid across the board. I still wish Ian Corlette, Saffron Henderson, Scott Mcneil, and Lalaina Lindjberg were still associated with their respective characters.
I'll go to bat for the choice of Don Brown as Kaio. He is a good actor and even with a somewhat silly voice, he can still convincingly portray Kaio as wise.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:11 am
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 am
Given their work on series like Inuyasha, numerous Gundam shows, Transformers anime series, and even many cartoons we all know (3 Eds for one), I would have expected them to do a lot better in DB, but maybe they should have tackled it much later after they’d gained more experience.
I thought the voice acting was solid. Some odd/wrong casting choices like Kaio or Roshi but other wise solid across the board. I still wish Ian Corlette, Saffron Henderson, Scott Mcneil, and Lalaina Lindjberg were still associated with their respective characters.
I'll go to bat for the choice of Don Brown as Kaio. He is a good actor and even with a somewhat silly voice, he can still convincingly portray Kaio as wise.
Don Brown will always be my favorite Shenron. Shame he only got the one episode and the 3 movies.

His Kaio is much much better than Schemmel’s bargain bin version of him. I just don’t think it was good choice for Kaio to sound like.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:19 am

Shen Long is so heavily filtered, I don't know how anyone differentiates any version of him.

I like the juxtaposition of Don Brown's silly voice with Kaio's wise martial arts master persona. It's different than Yanami's take, but still valid. Yanami's version is a different juxtaposition.

The score during the scenes where Goku arrives in the nick of time to save Gohan still gives me goosebumps.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:43 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Can we just agree Funimation just didn’t do a good job with this set regardless of their intentions?
Yep. :thumbup:
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:48 pm
Also again with saying Shuki Levy was the guy behind the Ocean dub's replacement score, when it was really Ron Wasserman who did and IIRC i don't believe Levy was credited or really had a direct hand in it.
I'm quite passionate about this; much as it's not my favourite score, Ron Wasserman was responsible for the Saban score. As far as we know, Shuki Levy had no involvement at all, and it honestly gets me quite frustrated that people still call it the Levy score.
PacificOceanDub wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:58 pm
Wow, not sure if the whole “RTD was originally conceived as a complete collection of the original run” is true or not, but that would’ve been awesome! I totally would have and still will buy that if it ever happens. Also, I definitely prefer the Ocean versions of DBZ movies 1-3 as well. The only way ill watch those
It's true. I can't remember which episode it was, but one of the Kanzenshuu podcasts had one of the (ex?) heads of home video at Funi discuss the Rock The Dragon set, and he explained this.
ABED wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:51 am
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:34 am
With the exception of the hilarious censorship, the Ocean dub is a solid, well-produced production with a wealth of incredible voice talent. Corlett is a great Goku that perfectly balanced Goku's goofy and serious moments, McNeil's Piccolo is one of the best English dub performances in history, Drummond's hissy Vegeta is legendarily iconic and his screams are second to none, so on and so forth. I happen to think the music is excellent as well. I own the Rock The Dragon set and I enjoy it as the definitive way to experience the first 53 episodes.
Pretty much this. The other thing that doesn't get enough attention is how good the supporting cast is. The actor for Ox King if f'n perfect.
Quoting ABED because I want to respond to both of you:

The problem was never one of experience, it was always a matter of their producers (Funimation; mainly Barry Watson) having no respect for the original Japanese production, and basically directing the entire production to be a Saturday morning cartoon that didn't care about anything the original show had been beyond forming the basis for the visuals and scripts.
As we saw in the Pioneer dub (the first movie being done in 1997, maybe only a year after they did the first episodes of the series), they were fully capable of doing it right to a degree that's never been matched since. But Funi were holding them back for their work on the show.
ABED wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:19 am
Shen Long is so heavily filtered, I don't know how anyone differentiates any version of him.
Don Brown's sounds like a giant, ferocious being beyond human conception. It's a character voice, sounds very big and terrifying.
Chris Sabat's sounds like a generic, slightly brutish pitched-down human voice. It sounds like what it is -- Chris Sabat speaking a generic deep voice that's been pitched down more. (I guess Sabat's take is closer to how it was done in Japanese, but I still prefer Brown's. :lol:)

Dave Pettitt's take was a litlte different from the other two. Very gruff and textured, and not pitched down anywhere near as much as the other two. I really like it.
ABED wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:19 am
I like the juxtaposition of Don Brown's silly voice with Kaio's wise martial arts master persona. It's different than Yanami's take, but still valid. Yanami's version is a different juxtaposition.
I agree.

And unlike Schemmel, Don Brown is very capable of making Kaio's wisdom and intensity come through when he gets serious.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 am
Don Brown will always be my favorite Shenron. Shame he only got the one episode and the 3 movies.
He also played Shen Long in the Westwood Z dub, though interestingly, they didn't pitch his voice down there.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:57 am

Yeah, as much as Sean's acting skills have improved greatly over the years especially in the last decade as Goku he's never sounded right as Kaio (King Kai) and it's always been an awkward over the top sounding voice. Which of course started as a poor impression of the Ocean VA's take much as the others did when the FUNi cast started on the show back in 1999.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:59 am

Thanks for the links. A side by side comparison was needed. I don't have any strong feelings on the performances. They're all good for what little we hear from the different Shen Longs.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:11 pm

Cheers.

Personally, I hope Ocean Kai has Dave Pettitt playing Shen Long, and Don Brown playing Porunga. (Since Ocean Kai used voices from both Vancouver and Calgary)
Pettitt sounds intimidating and big, but Don Brown sounds so much bigger and more menacing, so... It could make for an interesting extra element.
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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by 10gigtriforce » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:01 pm

Honestly its a pretty ok and nostalgic dub, especially the title and break cards. honestly the only part I'm not fond of with it is krilin's voice.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:36 pm

I'll also agree with what others have said about Ian James Corlett. He was a fantastic Goku. Really natural sounding delivery and just a pleasure to listen to. I even enjoy just listening to him in interviews, as he more or less sounds like Goku in them too, which is by no means a bad thing.

Even now when I see young Vegeta in Fighterz I imagine Brian Drummond's voice coming out of him.

Scott McNeil was great as Piccolo early on.

I'll say that even though I'm not a huge fan of the Westwood dub, Drummond and McNeil still managed to put in pretty decent performances despite the rushed schedule.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:06 pm

ikaos wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:40 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:35 pm
I'm thoroughly enjoying watching this spliced version of the Ocean dub together with the Funimation version that's been overlayed on the Dragon Box.
Hm I wonder where that came from ;)
I don't know, but whoever was responsible for that deserved immense public praise as the GOAT. Seriously. I'd like to thank that person profusely for the time and effort dedicated to such a project, which in my opinion, is the best way to watch the series.

So THANK YOU!!!! ... to whoever it is, wherever he might be...

Seriously, thank you.

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by ikaos » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:48 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:36 pm
I'll also agree with what others have said about Ian James Corlett. He was a fantastic Goku. Really natural sounding delivery and just a pleasure to listen to. I even enjoy just listening to him in interviews, as he more or less sounds like Goku in them too, which is by no means a bad thing.
The only issue I have with Corlett as Goku is that it started the trend of giving Goku a "Superman"-type voice, which, while pleasant to listen to and well acted, makes Goku too "smart" a lot of the time. Kelamis does a good job of mixing in some goofy-ness with his Goku, especially in the Pioneer movies (the writing helps a lot, too).
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:06 pm

I don't know, but whoever was responsible for that deserved immense public praise as the GOAT. Seriously. I'd like to thank that person profusely for the time and effort dedicated to such a project, which in my opinion, is the best way to watch the series.

So THANK YOU!!!! ... to whoever it is, wherever he might be...

Seriously, thank you.
I'll pass it on ;)

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Re: Personal Thoughts on the Ocean Dub

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:22 pm

ikaos wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:48 pm
The only issue I have with Corlett as Goku is that it started the trend of giving Goku a "Superman"-type voice, which, while pleasant to listen to and well acted, makes Goku too "smart" a lot of the time. Kelamis does a good job of mixing in some goofy-ness with his Goku, especially in the Pioneer movies (the writing helps a lot, too).
Yeah this is about how I remember it. Corlett being the better actor and easier on the ears, but Kelamis capturing Goku's personality and spirit the best. Definitely a favorite of mine.

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