Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:03 pm

Not only is it too long, the supposedly great mind of Kira is only great because every other character is so stupid. One of the cops working on the case with Kira's father tells him important confidential information just because he's the detective's son. And the sheer number of impossible leaps in logic don't come off as two chess masters facing off, but rather one chess player knowing what the other is doing because he's playing himself. In this case, Kira and L only make such incredible deductions because the author of the manga is writing both characters. Finally, Light is a tool. He's not complex. He's an emo kid with a god complex. I'm boggled how it got this reputation. It's pure garbage.

You make a good argument using Ragarok. As goofy and over the top as it is, it still feels somewhat grounded, whereas other anime adaptions of stuff similar to DB feels like a live action cartoon, in which case, it's just spending more money to place it in a more expensive medium. There's no tangible benefit to live action in this case.
The only problems are likely to be the attitudes that made Evolution such a shitty movie with no actual ties to Dragon Ball; a disregard for/disinterest in the source material, an emphasis on commercialism, etc.
Yeah, there was NO interest in commercialism when they made Ragnarok! Toriyama also wasn't interested in making something that sold.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:58 pm

It'd have a lot to live up to.

It'd need to be as close to Toriyama as possible, in terms of humor if not artwork.

And it'd get criticism whatever it gets right.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Brojack » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:17 pm

Dragon Ball would have a chance of working as a series...maybe. The Bleach live action movie wasn't so horrific.

But this One Piece series doesn't have any chance of being any good. I imagine it's going to be a Japanese series yes? Which in that case means the series will look dirt cheap and even worse, Japanese actors are notorious for being horrendous actors.

One Piece is a hyperactive series written for kids that seem like they should be jumped on a sugar rush. That won't translate to live action and if they tone it down then it wouldn't be One Piece anyway.

Dragon Ball has an advantage in that's much calmer but then would still need a big budget and Japan can't do that.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:09 pm

I would at least be interested in an single 10 episode season as a “test series” or whatever. Maybe adapt the first arc with some of movie 1 thrown in.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:09 pm
I would at least be interested in an single 10 episode season as a “test series” or whatever. Maybe adapt the first arc with some of movie 1 thrown in.
The first arc does work on its own that even if it fails to move past it, it would still feel complete.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:32 pm

A Series of Unfortunate Events was adapted into hour-long episodes, so I don't see why they couldn't mess around with long-format to cover a lot of material. With Dragon Ball usually being fifteen pages a chapter you could adapt a four-to-five chapters in twenty-one minutes, so a sixty-three minute episode could easily twelve chapters.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:58 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:29 pm
But really, there's no reason a live-action Dragon Ball thing couldn't be good.
Yes, it'd be very easy for whatever studio to screw it up (see: all the examples everyone in this thread has thrown out, as they keep throwing out whenever anything like this is brought up), but in the hands of the right filmmaker (read: not Zack fucking Snyder), some fun movies or TV could be made based on Dragon Ball. Would work best if they work hard to maintain the eastern kung-fu flavour. Probably tone the perversity way, way, WAY down, but still fill it with humour, get actors with great chemistry (ideally quite a diverse cast at that, though having a largely Asian cast would be a good idea. Just whatever they do, let's not have a white-dominated cast), and we could have something pretty great.
If it's a movie, then a director like Taika Waititi would probably be a solid choice for a western director, though if they're not getting someone who's directed a martial arts movie, probably they should bring someone who has on-board as a sort of co-director. Gotta have the authenticity.
As much as it pains me to admit, Joss Whedon would probably be a good person to lead the project. I hate him because he's too safe a creator (imo) but his brand of comedy would probably match DB pretty well. Plus, he really seems to get how to weave humor into otherwise tense scenes and how to make someone the butt of the joke while still presenting them as a worthwhile major character.
ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:03 pm
Not only is it too long, the supposedly great mind of Kira is only great because every other character is so stupid. One of the cops working on the case with Kira's father tells him important confidential information just because he's the detective's son. And the sheer number of impossible leaps in logic don't come off as two chess masters facing off, but rather one chess player knowing what the other is doing because he's playing himself. In this case, Kira and L only make such incredible deductions because the author of the manga is writing both characters. Finally, Light is a tool. He's not complex. He's an emo kid with a god complex. I'm boggled how it got this reputation. It's pure garbage.
Kira not being much more than an above average intelligent teenager with a lot working in his favor, is actually something I like about the series. His delusions of grandeur and narcissm made him an interesting character when I started watching.

Unfortunately about half way through it hit me that the writer and fanbase both bought into Kira's hype which killed a lot of fun for me.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:34 pm

How is his work safe?

I like Joss a lot, but I don't think his voice fits DB. The mere fact of him working in genre, subverting tropes, and infusing his work with humor is one thing, but he also has something to say. Toriyama doesn't have anything explicit to say.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:29 pm
But really, there's no reason a live-action Dragon Ball thing couldn't be good.
Yes, it'd be very easy for whatever studio to screw it up (see: all the examples everyone in this thread has thrown out, as they keep throwing out whenever anything like this is brought up), but in the hands of the right filmmaker (read: not Zack fucking Snyder), some fun movies or TV could be made based on Dragon Ball. Would work best if they work hard to maintain the eastern kung-fu flavour. Probably tone the perversity way, way, WAY down, but still fill it with humour, get actors with great chemistry (ideally quite a diverse cast at that, though having a largely Asian cast would be a good idea. Just whatever they do, let's not have a white-dominated cast), and we could have something pretty great.
If it's a movie, then a director like Taika Waititi would probably be a solid choice for a western director, though if they're not getting someone who's directed a martial arts movie, probably they should bring someone who has on-board as a sort of co-director. Gotta have the authenticity.
As much as it pains me to admit, Joss Whedon would probably be a good person to lead the project. I hate him because he's too safe a creator (imo) but his brand of comedy would probably match DB pretty well. Plus, he really seems to get how to weave humor into otherwise tense scenes and how to make someone the butt of the joke while still presenting them as a worthwhile major character.
I don’t see how Whedon would be a good fit for Dragon Ball’s humor. Whedon relies more on quips and selfnaware. Toriyama humor is based more on the absurdism of the situations like fat bubblegum demon turns people into candy or evil satan like figure was sealed in an electric rice cooker. Toriyama is an artist first and a writer second. Whedon is a writer (one who I think is past his prime but that’s neither here nor there)
I think a more visual creator would be more compatible

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:11 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:34 pm
How is his work safe?

I like Joss a lot, but I don't think his voice fits DB. The mere fact of him working in genre, subverting tropes, and infusing his work with humor is one thing, but he also has something to say. Toriyama doesn't have anything explicit to say.
WB certainly viewed him as “safe” when they hired him to rewrite and reshoot large chunks of the Justice League movie. Anyway, I would agree with the idea that he probably wouldn’t be a good fit for Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball’s style of humor isn’t derived from snarky one-liners. In fact, such a thing would be completely out of place for a character like Goku.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:35 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm
I don’t see how Whedon would be a good fit for Dragon Ball’s humor. Whedon relies more on quips and selfnaware. Toriyama humor is based more on the absurdism of the situations like fat bubblegum demon turns people into candy or evil satan like figure was sealed in an electric rice cooker. Toriyama is an artist first and a writer second. Whedon is a writer (one who I think is past his prime but that’s neither here nor there)
I think a more visual creator would be more compatible
Dragon Ball was filled with quips and self aware humor. Bulma confused as to how the Immortal Phoenix could die. Yamcha cross at Puar because Puar thought child ChiChi would trigger his gynophobia. The Kamehameha gag. Chibi Red revealing he wants the Dragon Ball so he can wish himself to a more normal height before Black blows his brains out. Besides there's not much difference between adding absurdity to a tense situation (as Toriyama often did) and just taking the piss out of one (like Whedon likes to).

And to be clear, I don't want Whedon to actually write the thing himself. I just want him in charge of the project as a producer or similar.
ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:34 pm
How is his work safe?

I like Joss a lot, but I don't think his voice fits DB. The mere fact of him working in genre, subverting tropes, and infusing his work with humor is one thing, but he also has something to say. Toriyama doesn't have anything explicit to say.
I don't think I can really explain why I think his work is safe. I don't even think it's all that rational a position for me to hold. I just know that I've watched a lot of his work and with the exception of Cabin in the Woods1 I've always gotten the feeling he's walking a genre tight rope. Like he's too tied to the genre conventions he's trying to play with to take the story in a unique direction.

1. That and some of the weirder Angel episodes but that sounds like studie/actor/creator drama
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:04 pm

Yeah, I don't agree with that at all. He likes genre because it provides structure, but he constantly subverted tropes. Considering how different his work was, especially in the late 90, I'd hardly call that safe. Anyway, he's completely wrong for DB. His work is about communicating his thoughts about people and all of our weird contradictions. DB lacks subtext.

Guys, if you think Whedon's style of humor is limited to snarky one liners, you aren't paying attention. AT. ALL.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:22 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:04 pm
Guys, if you think Whedon's style of humor is limited to snarky one liners, you aren't paying attention. AT. ALL.
I never said it is limited to that, but that is a major aspect of his writing. Anyway, as far as his general style of humor is concerned, the last two movies he worked on had the same gag involving someone falling on a woman’s cleavage, though I guess that wouldn’t be out of place in Dragon Ball, at least not early on.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:23 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:22 pm
ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:04 pm
Guys, if you think Whedon's style of humor is limited to snarky one liners, you aren't paying attention. AT. ALL.
I never said it is limited to that, but that is a major aspect of his writing. Anyway, as far as his general style of humor is concerned, the last two movies he worked on had the same gag involving someone falling on a woman’s cleavage, though I guess that wouldn’t be out of place in Dragon Ball.
See! He's perfect for anime!
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:57 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:03 pm
Not only is it too long, the supposedly great mind of Kira is only great because every other character is so stupid. One of the cops working on the case with Kira's father tells him important confidential information just because he's the detective's son. And the sheer number of impossible leaps in logic don't come off as two chess masters facing off, but rather one chess player knowing what the other is doing because he's playing himself. In this case, Kira and L only make such incredible deductions because the author of the manga is writing both characters. Finally, Light is a tool. He's not complex. He's an emo kid with a god complex. I'm boggled how it got this reputation. It's pure garbage.
I definitely agree that some of what happens is a little difficult to believe, especially in a modern society like ours with all the intelligence/technology that we have. But you don’t think the show raises moral questions in an interesting way (at least for a shonen show)?

As for Kira, of course he’s one-dimensional and I would go so far as to say unlikeable. He’s a 17-year-old who thinks grades are the be-all-and-end-all and, more importantly, hasn’t really gone out into the world, who is given supreme power. Look at kings/rulers who have grown up in palaces and how they’ve acted at various points in history.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:15 am

Brojack wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:17 pm
This One Piece series doesn't have any chance of being any good. I imagine it's going to be a Japanese series yes ? Which in that case means the series will look dirt cheap and even worse, Japanese actors are notorious for being horrendous actors.
This will be an American show, created by people who worked on Lost, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. One Piece's author will be a producer on it, although probably in name only. It will be made by Tomorrow Studios, which currently only has 3 shows under its name and has only been around for 5 years. Pick your poison, you can get a cheaply made Japanese series that respects the source material, or a more expensive American one that's so different from it that it might as well be called something else.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:04 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:15 am
Brojack wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:17 pm
This One Piece series doesn't have any chance of being any good. I imagine it's going to be a Japanese series yes ? Which in that case means the series will look dirt cheap and even worse, Japanese actors are notorious for being horrendous actors.
This will be an American show, created by people who worked on Lost, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. One Piece's author will be a producer on it, although probably in name only. It will be made by Tomorrow Studios, which currently only has 3 shows under its name and has only been around for 5 years. Pick your poison, you can get a cheaply made Japanese series that respects the source material, or a more expensive American one that's so different from it that it might as well be called something else.
Better than what Tomie's getting. Tomie is getting the guy from Piranha 3D and The Hills Have Eyes (2006)
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:34 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:15 am
Pick your poison, you can get a cheaply made Japanese series that respects the source material, or a more expensive American one that's so different from it that it might as well be called something else.
Well that's not much of a choice at all, as if I wanted faithful then I could just watch the anime. The Japanese version would be guaranteed to be awful, something that looks like one of those cheap YouTube fan films with actors who couldn't act to save their lives.

If it's American made then it's just got a high chance of sucking. You'd only want to watch this for the special effects and sets which at least have a chance to look good and actors who could probably act even if they wont be too accurate.

It's like how Shin Godzilla was fairly true to the character but was a complete joke of a movie.

Godzilla King of Monsters may have been its own mess but at least the special effects made it entertaining.

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Kuwabara » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:11 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have massive reservations about live-action adaptations of anything because the crews involved tend to have absolutely no understanding of traditional animation or the techniques it employs. They don't even attempt to pay homage to any of that in any kind of meaningful or interesting way, only the most superficial elements possible.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Netflix series.

Post by Jackalope89 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:30 pm

Like most, I have reservations about live action adaptations as well (be it Disney, anime, whatever). That said...

The creators of Avatar the Last Airbender are heading their own live action version of Avatar the Last Airbender on Netflix. If it does well, and is well received, I could see it opening the gate for more live adaptations on Netflix.

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