I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:18 pm

There's some good things about One Piece, but it's unnecessarily long. Like, does it seriously need to be that long? And even if it did world building better than Dragon Ball, that hardly matters, since having more world building doesn't mean it's better.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:19 pm

Zephyr wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:16 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:09 pm
Again, that’s a laughably bad comparison. 1 page on a book=/= one 20 minute television episode. At all.
Look, man, sometimes it takes me 20 minutes to read a single page, alright?
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:20 pm

I'm a little more generous than Masenko in that I think 5 years is the ideal number and it's usually after then that shows decline, but his point is well taken.

I get your point about the quality of the minutes, but at a certain point, an author is going to repeat him or herself. It's inevitable. How do you keep something like this going that supposedly has an endgame and yet doesn't tread water?

And well aware that long books can be great. My favorite book is The Count of Monte Cristo, but that's one single story that while long stays focused because it's not a series of novels that has to keep the main character from achieving his goal.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:09 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:03 pm
I don't think using One Piece's length should be an argument against it. A lot of great books are over 1000 pages long,
Again, that’s a laughably bad comparison. 1 page on a book=/= one 20 minute television episode. At all.
a lot of good TV series last multiple seasons
They do, but most shows tend to drop in quality around the third-fifth season. It’s very rare for a series to go past 5 years and still be as good when it started or even better.

You may enjoy shorter, more concise narratives (so do I), but a work of art's length does not matter. You can criticize the way One Piece uses that time, however. It is definitely far too formulaic and repetitive.
I can criticize a series that has over 900 episodes and still going because its not the same as a novel being over 1000 pages or a show lasting for 3-5 seasons like so others on this thread appear to believe?

Dragon Ball is hardly concise with its decade run.
1000 pages is a huge time investment (and that was merely an example, War and Peace and Les Miserables are 1500 pages long; In Search of Lost Time is 4000). Most novels are around 200-300 pages long, and that's already about three times as much as the average play. You say that it's not comparable to a thousand episodes in terms of length, and you may be correct, but it's a different medium entirely. Proportionally speaking, a thousand-page novel is as much of a ridiculous investment compared to your average book as a thousand-episode series is compared to your average show.

Regardless, One Piece is only double the length of Dragon Ball in terms of chapter count. It is not as large a gap as it seems, considering they're both 15-page long comic books.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:09 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:03 pm
I don't think using One Piece's length should be an argument against it. A lot of great books are over 1000 pages long,
Again, that’s a laughably bad comparison. 1 page on a book=/= one 20 minute television episode. At all.
a lot of good TV series last multiple seasons
They do, but most shows tend to drop in quality around the third-fifth season. It’s very rare for a series to go past 5 years and still be as good when it started or even better.

You may enjoy shorter, more concise narratives (so do I), but a work of art's length does not matter. You can criticize the way One Piece uses that time, however. It is definitely far too formulaic and repetitive.
I can criticize a series that has over 900 episodes and still going because its not the same as a novel being over 1000 pages or a show lasting for 3-5 seasons like so others on this thread appear to believe?

Dragon Ball is hardly concise with its decade run.
1000 pages is a huge time investment (and that was merely an example, War and Peace and Les Miserables are 1500 pages long; In Search of Lost Time is 4000). Most novels are around 200-300 pages long, and that's already about three times as much as the average play. You say that it's not comparable to a thousand episodes in terms of length, and you may be correct, but it's a different medium entirely. Proportionally speaking, a thousand-page novel is as much of a ridiculous investment compared to your average book as a thousand-episode series is compared to your average show.

Regardless, One Piece is only double the length of Dragon Ball in terms of chapter count. It is not as large a gap as it seems, considering they're both 15-page long comic books.
DB is too long, so not the best argument. 1000 is a big time investment, but even long books can still have plenty of forward momentum. Les Miserable is long, but a couple hundred pages are essays and can easily be taken out. The comparison between a single novel and a series is not a good one. It's more akin to a series of novels.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:30 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm


1000 pages is a huge time investment (and that was merely an example, War and Peace and Les Miserables are 1500 pages long; In Search of Lost Time is 4000). Most novels are around 200-300 pages long, and that's already about three times as much as the average play. You say that it's not comparable to a thousand episodes in terms of length, and you may be correct, but it's a different medium entirely. Proportionally speaking, a thousand-page novel is as much of a ridiculous investment compared to your average book as a thousand-episode series is compared to your average show.

Regardless, One Piece is only double the length of Dragon Ball in terms of chapter count. It is not as large a gap as it seems, considering they're both 15-page long comic books.

Correct, books and television are different mediums. (it’s why mini series based on Stephen King novels tend to be awful) which is why comparing One Piece to a novel with over 1000 pages is laughably, horrendously bad.

As far as Dragon Ball even someone who enjoyed the Artificial Human and Boo arcs it peaked at Namek. Dragon Ball is a pretty solid example of the 3-5 year rule as far as tv shows as that goes to about the 23rd Budokai to Namek.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:39 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:09 pm


Again, that’s a laughably bad comparison. 1 page on a book=/= one 20 minute television episode. At all.


They do, but most shows tend to drop in quality around the third-fifth season. It’s very rare for a series to go past 5 years and still be as good when it started or even better.




I can criticize a series that has over 900 episodes and still going because its not the same as a novel being over 1000 pages or a show lasting for 3-5 seasons like so others on this thread appear to believe?

Dragon Ball is hardly concise with its decade run.
1000 pages is a huge time investment (and that was merely an example, War and Peace and Les Miserables are 1500 pages long; In Search of Lost Time is 4000). Most novels are around 200-300 pages long, and that's already about three times as much as the average play. You say that it's not comparable to a thousand episodes in terms of length, and you may be correct, but it's a different medium entirely. Proportionally speaking, a thousand-page novel is as much of a ridiculous investment compared to your average book as a thousand-episode series is compared to your average show.

Regardless, One Piece is only double the length of Dragon Ball in terms of chapter count. It is not as large a gap as it seems, considering they're both 15-page long comic books.
DB is too long, so not the best argument. 1000 is a big time investment, but even long books can still have plenty of forward momentum. Les Miserable is long, but a couple hundred pages are essays and can easily be taken out. The comparison between a single novel and a series is not a good one. It's more akin to a series of novels.
I don't agree that DB is too long, at least not the manga. Every arc is unique and it never feels like it has burned all its creativity.

Actually, something like D. Quixote is pretty similar to One Piece conceptually and it took me less time to get through the One Piece manga than Cervantes' book.

I agree that One Piece is repetitive and formulaic, but I don't necessarily think it's because of its length, or because of author fatigue. Oda seems as invested in the series as he was at the start, he's just not a very creative artist.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:30 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm


1000 pages is a huge time investment (and that was merely an example, War and Peace and Les Miserables are 1500 pages long; In Search of Lost Time is 4000). Most novels are around 200-300 pages long, and that's already about three times as much as the average play. You say that it's not comparable to a thousand episodes in terms of length, and you may be correct, but it's a different medium entirely. Proportionally speaking, a thousand-page novel is as much of a ridiculous investment compared to your average book as a thousand-episode series is compared to your average show.

Regardless, One Piece is only double the length of Dragon Ball in terms of chapter count. It is not as large a gap as it seems, considering they're both 15-page long comic books.

Correct, books and television are different mediums. (it’s why mini series based on Stephen King novels tend to be awful) which is why comparing One Piece to a novel with over 1000 pages is laughably, horrendously bad.

As far as Dragon Ball even someone who enjoyed the Artificial Human and Boo arcs it peaked at Namek. Dragon Ball is a pretty solid example of the 3-5 year rule as far as tv shows as that goes to about the 23rd Budokai to Namek.
Stephen King is awful in general.

I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule. There's more Dragon Ball before the 23rd Budokai and it was still great.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:45 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:36 pm
There is no good narrative reason for any series that supposedly has an ending in mind to go for 1500 episodes.
To be fair, 1500 is on the short side, it'll probably be around 2000 if Toei keeps adapting as few pages per episode as they've been doing. I do agree that no story should go on for that long, or even half that long. The issue isn't the number of arcs or what's focused on, it's how much time he spends on each event. You can have compelling characters and fights without dragging everything out.
Kokonoe wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:44 pm
You do know Oda wrote the ending from the very start right? Unlike Toriyama he actually plans things out.
Toriyama's writing style never hurt the story though, at least not back in the day. He managed to make everything fit together, which is what counts, regardless of it being planned or not. Oda and Toriyama are very different people, so it's natural for them to have different writing styles that just work for them. What I like about Toriyama's style is that he focuses on the here and now instead of obsessing over what comes next. It allowed each arc in the original manga to reach its full potential instead of just being a set up to what's next. It also allows the reader/viewer to be more invested because as far as they know, what they're seeing could very well be the end. When you've got 10 things set up, you know that what's in front of you is just a bump in the road till the next event.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:52 pm

I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule.
It's not a rule as much as a tendency.
I don't agree that DB is too long, at least not the manga. Every arc is unique and it never feels like it has burned all its creativity.
I don't really agree. DB settles into a repetitive formula by DBZ and after a while, Toriyama is running on fumes. The fights weren't as creative or interesting, and with the exception of Vegeta, everyone pretty much stops growing after Namek. It still has plenty of good moments, but the bloom was off the rose.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:55 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:24 pm
Kokonoe wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:11 pm
So wasting the plot for mediocre romance is called being well rounded? You know how boring that would be if Luffy was out here trying to express his feelings for Nami and everything? That'd waste so much time. I much prefer developing the characters than inferior romance subplots like Naruto that aren't even written well. The women in Naruto are terribly written in this regard, Sakura is just a onahole and Hinata is mindless without Naruto.
Actually, yes. I would love to see romantic scenes of Luffy and Nami holding hands, kissing, talking about their likes and dislikes and trying on clothes together between plot-heavy scenes. It would be majorly refreshing and relatable. Throw in scenes of Robin struggling with deciding if she wants to subject children to her life on the run from the government with Franky--the leader of the Franky Family--there to support her.
The boa handcock arc has a touch of that. tl;dr shes wants to marry luffy and has to decide if she wants a life as a queen or wants to leave to follow love. Sure luffy's more oblivious than goku with chichi but it was an interesting world builder. other than that not a ton though.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:52 pm
I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule.
It's not a rule as much as a tendency.
I don't agree that DB is too long, at least not the manga. Every arc is unique and it never feels like it has burned all its creativity.
I don't really agree. DB settles into a repetitive formula by DBZ and after a while, Toriyama is running on fumes. The fights weren't as creative or interesting, and with the exception of Vegeta, everyone pretty much stops growing after Namek. It still has plenty of good moments, but the bloom was off the rose.
The Boo arc saw a shift in the 'formula' with the Saiyaman episodes; Boo and Gotenks had both incredibly creative abilities; Gohan's arc reaches its natural conclusion in the Cell and Boo arcs, Piccolo's in the Cell arc, Kuririn in the Cell arc. New characters occupy the spotlight instead of the old ones, like Trunks, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, Videl and so on. Goku himself is at his most interesting during those last two arcs.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:39 pm


.

I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule. There's more Dragon Ball before the 23rd Budokai and it was still great.
...........yeah the stuff before the 23rd budokai falls under the 3-5 years. I’m not saying the 3-5th years are the best or greatest just that most tv series as a rule of thumb tens to decline after 3-5 years

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:00 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:45 pm
Kokonoe wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:44 pm
You do know Oda wrote the ending from the very start right? Unlike Toriyama he actually plans things out.
Toriyama's writing style never hurt the story though, at least not back in the day. He managed to make everything fit together, which is what counts, regardless of it being planned or not. Oda and Toriyama are very different people, so it's natural for them to have different writing styles that just work for them. What I like about Toriyama's style is that he focuses on the here and now instead of obsessing over what comes next. It allowed each arc in the original manga to reach its full potential instead of just being a set up to what's next. It also allows the reader/viewer to be more invested because as far as they know, what they're seeing could very well be the end. When you've got 10 things set up, you know that what's in front of you is just a bump in the road till the next event.
Focusing on the "here and now" is how most stories fall apart. Toriyama managed to pull it off and that's fucking amazing but we really shouldn't valorize risky writing techniques. Most writers aren't going to be the exception to the rule and if they try something like that it'll blow up in their face. Oda's style may not be as memorable but it's by far the better way for writers to go about their job.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:01 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:39 pm


.

I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule. There's more Dragon Ball before the 23rd Budokai and it was still great.
...........yeah the stuff before the 23rd budokai falls under the 3-5 years. I’m not saying the 3-5th years are the best or greatest just that most tv series as a rule of thumb tens to decline after 3-5 years
And I disagree. I think the Boo arc is easily a high point of the series.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:03 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:01 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 pm
Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:39 pm
I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule. There's more Dragon Ball before the 23rd Budokai and it was still great.
...........yeah the stuff before the 23rd budokai falls under the 3-5 years. I’m not saying the 3-5th years are the best or greatest just that most tv series as a rule of thumb tens to decline after 3-5 years
And I disagree. I think the Boo arc is easily a high point of the series.
Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I mean, I've defended parts of the first season of TNG so it's not like I get to throw stones right now.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:06 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 pm
ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:52 pm
I agree Dragon Ball peaked on Namek, but you're arbitrarily applying that rule.
It's not a rule as much as a tendency.
I don't agree that DB is too long, at least not the manga. Every arc is unique and it never feels like it has burned all its creativity.
I don't really agree. DB settles into a repetitive formula by DBZ and after a while, Toriyama is running on fumes. The fights weren't as creative or interesting, and with the exception of Vegeta, everyone pretty much stops growing after Namek. It still has plenty of good moments, but the bloom was off the rose.
The Boo arc saw a shift in the 'formula' with the Saiyaman episodes; Boo and Gotenks had both incredibly creative abilities; Gohan's arc reaches its natural conclusion in the Cell and Boo arcs, Piccolo's in the Cell arc, Kuririn in the Cell arc. New characters occupy the spotlight instead of the old ones, like Trunks, Mr. Satan, Mr. Boo, Videl and so on. Goku himself is at his most interesting during those last two arcs.
By the Buu arc it's all same story different verse. The Great Saiyaman episodes are god damn boring. It's not funny and wears out its welcome quick. Besides, it's not even breaking up the formula as it is dragging it out. The natural end of Gohan's arc was the Saiyan arc. He becomes brave and self sufficient instead of the crybaby he was at the beginning. I don't agree with your assessment about Goku. I never felt Piccolo needed to combine with Kami to feel like a complete character, not in the literal sense.
Focusing on the "here and now" is how most stories fall apart. Toriyama managed to pull it off and that's fucking amazing but we really shouldn't valorize risky writing techniques. Most writers aren't going to be the exception to the rule and if they try something like that it'll blow up in their face. Oda's style may not be as memorable but it's by far the better way for writers to go about their job.
HARD disagree. Focusing on the here and now is far superior to some meticulous plan. The way to get audiences to care about the future is to get us to are about the present.
Last edited by ABED on Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by VDenter » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:08 pm

One Piece is pretty good and it is generally the best out of the Dragon Ball clones that have come out since, but i just don't like how unnecessarily bloated it can be. There are just way too many characters and it becomes enough of a problem in recent arcs where main characters get showed into the background for chapters on end and way too much attentions is being paid to minor side characters who will be completely forgotten by the time the next story arc comes around.

Oda also likes to do his "Here is a cool thing over here, but i will return to it in about 200 chapters" teasses way too often. These tend to make the world seem more cohesive sometimes but at other times it just feels obnoxious. Some events get foreshadowed way too early.

Also way too many characters have a predictably sad story that lays it out way too thick. The amount of times a character cries in One Piece is staggering. I have honestly lost count. The pacing and structure of each arc is super formulaic as well. For all the inspired characters and locations One Piece can have, its structure is the exact opposite of that. You know 100% how each arc will play out almost beat for beat because it is copying the previous arc in pretty much everything. Also how many times has Luffy been captured and thrown into some prison by now? Bet it will happen again a few times before One Piece wraps up in the next 20 years.

Dragon Ball has been known to be pretty formulaic but i don't think it even compares to One Piece. Generally the later story arcs, even Freeza, Cell and Boo are unique enough form each other to make them stand out but One Piece can really start to feel like a blur at times.

The One Piece anime was pretty strong at first but the pacing for the last 400 episodes or so is abysmal. Anyone who wants to get into One Piece needs to do it with the Manga.

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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:17 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:06 pm
Focusing on the "here and now" is how most stories fall apart. Toriyama managed to pull it off and that's fucking amazing but we really shouldn't valorize risky writing techniques. Most writers aren't going to be the exception to the rule and if they try something like that it'll blow up in their face. Oda's style may not be as memorable but it's by far the better way for writers to go about their job.
HARD disagree. Focusing on the here and now is far superior to some meticulous plan. The way to get audiences to care about the future is to get us to are about the present.
I'm not talking about audience enjoyment, I'm talking about actually writing the story. If the writer or writing staff aren't thinking ahead the project will almost always fall apart. There are too many examples to list. Writers need plans because they keep them grounded with clear milestones and goals for them to reach. A writer who doesn't plan is like a boxer who doesn't guard. Sure, you'll find lots of exciting exceptions to the rule but the vast majority of boxers who try that will get floored.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:27 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:17 pm
ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:06 pm
Focusing on the "here and now" is how most stories fall apart. Toriyama managed to pull it off and that's fucking amazing but we really shouldn't valorize risky writing techniques. Most writers aren't going to be the exception to the rule and if they try something like that it'll blow up in their face. Oda's style may not be as memorable but it's by far the better way for writers to go about their job.
HARD disagree. Focusing on the here and now is far superior to some meticulous plan. The way to get audiences to care about the future is to get us to are about the present.
I'm not talking about audience enjoyment, I'm talking about actually writing the story. If the writer or writing staff aren't thinking ahead the project will almost always fall apart. There are too many examples to list. Writers need plans because they keep them grounded with clear milestones and goals for them to reach. A writer who doesn't plan is like a boxer who doesn't guard. Sure, you'll find lots of exciting exceptions to the rule but the vast majority of boxers who try that will get floored.
I know what you meant and I disagree. They don't have to plan, just give themselves enough time to make it seem like they did or better yet, pay attention to what they wrote and be able to take advantage to unintentional plants. If they have a plan, it should be loose so they can pivot when a better or more organic idea presents itself, which it almost always inevitably does. Your analogy is falty. That's basic strategy in a fight - don't get hit. It's not like planning ahead.
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Re: I've been thinking and honestly One Piece seems superior to Dragon Ball?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:49 pm

I think Dragon Ball went on just long enough to organically grow from a simple comedy story into a simple action story, all while building up a sufficiently predictable and self-serious story pattern so as to have a nice rug to pull out from under the readers. It's a comedy story that uses a very extensive increase in action and self-seriousness as, essentially, set up for the punchline that is its final arc. This cements the work itself ontologically as a joke whose butt is its very own fan following.

It being as long as it is allows it to pull this off largely without people even noticing (for real, look at the entire fandom, here and elsewhere, and how lost the entire fucking thing is on them). To boot, it was done largely via blind, weekly improv. That's goddamn impressive to me. Pick nits about inconsistencies, boring stretches, wasted potential, and all of that where it's warranted (and it's certainly warranted; blind, weekly improv, after all, will result in some rough edges and the like), but Toriyama pulled off one hell of a stunt, and that is owed in large part to it going on for as long as it did (and to stopping where it did).

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One Piece, though? Really meticulous world-building is cute, but every amateur Dungeon Master engages in it, myself included. It's not novel. It's not interesting by itself. It's certainly not a substitute for anything else. Just because it's given life on a page with really bad art doesn't really elevate it either (if you think Oda's drawings look good, that's fine, we'll agree to disagree).

What about the writing? I know everyone talks about how often characters in One Piece cry, and how ugly everyone is while they do it. This is praised as a sign of how emotionally mature it is, but that's not the metric people think it is. I want to know, does it make the reader cry? Is it able to do this with subtlety? I'm not saying Dragon Ball has that effect on me, but if it's being suggested that One Piece has stronger writing than not only Dragon Ball but comics designed with adult sensibilities in mind as well, then we're going to raise the bar to that level. Devilman, 20th Century Boys, and Monster made me cry. Berserk and Vinland Saga made me cry, and they make me cry every time I go back. I'm hesitant to go into detail about the hows and whys, both because I have no reason to expect a good-faith response from the OP in the first place given their posting history, but also in the interest of not spoiling things for anyone who might be interested in some truly dope shit.

What about the story structure? Can anyone tell me where One Piece is at in its story? Is the climax in sight at all? Do we have any idea what the climax might look like? People joke about Berserk being on permanent hiatus and all that, but it's got a pretty clear climax that it's heading towards, and (at least in terms of chapter count) it isn't too far off; we're definitely much closer to the end than we are the beginning.

What about character development? Has Luffy undergone any substantial change as a character? Do we know what his arc is, or what it's going to be? Does he have any novel character defects that make him feel more human? Is he willing to endanger his crew to be the pirate king? Has he caused immense harm in his quest to be the pirate king, which he'll have to spend the rest of his life atoning for?

These are genuine questions, which should all have decent answers if the story has been going on for this long, else, it's not much of a story yet, but a poorly drawn exploration of Oda's D&D campaign setting. Which, y'know, I'm not slighting, I'd love to do something like that for the Hobo Campaign I ran a few years back, but I'd certainly not expect anyone to praise its writing.

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