Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

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Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by foxfang4 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 pm

I don't know if this has been touched on. But I would argue that the impact Team Four Star had on Dragon Ball's revival should be seen as being on the level of what the Orange Bricks achieved. To me, their work is more than just a well made abridged series. Deeper inside, you can see the series become meta and self-reflective. I think this series made people appreciate other facets of Dragon Ball. In 2007, when the Orange Bricks were released, I (like millions of others) got to experience the series in Japanese for the first time. I was expecting to re-watch Dragon Ball Z thinking that I'd enjoy it as some cheesy nostalgic trip. But, I was actually taken aback at how good it really was; even from an adult's perspective (mid 20s). I thought the production itself (let alone the psychology/mythology behind it all) was incredible and so ahead of its time. I think Team Four Star channeled this adult interpretation of the series and encapsulated it perfectly for a new generation.

I do feel a little sad that we may never get to see their take on Majin Vegeta; imo the best depiction of mid-life crisis I've seen in anime. But, I feel that way because I know how insanely talented they are. I really think this series went beyond a conventional youtube satire series. It formed a community and made people appreciate Dragon Ball on a much deeper level.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm

foxfang4 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 pm I don't know if this has been touched on. But I would argue that the impact Team Four Star had on Dragon Ball's revival should be seen as being on the level of what the Orange Bricks achieved.
Oh come on Team Four Star isn’t for everyone but they’re not that bad.

It formed a community and made people appreciate Dragon Ball on a much deeper level.

It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:58 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.
I think that's unfair. TFS's jokes were already memes throughout much of the DB community. Yamcha is a loser, Krillin dies all the time, Goku is a lousy father, and disdain for power levels all predate TFS by years.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:56 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.
I think that's unfair. TFS's jokes were already memes throughout much of the DB community. Yamcha is a loser, Krillin dies all the time, Goku is a lousy father, and disdain for power levels all predate TFS by years.
Fair point. Perhaps it’d be more accurate to say DBZA reinforced those interpretations in the larger fandom.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:02 pm

foxfang4 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 pm I don't know if this has been touched on. But I would argue that the impact Team Four Star had on Dragon Ball's revival should be seen as being on the level of what the Orange Bricks achieved. To me, their work is more than just a well made abridged series. Deeper inside, you can see the series become meta and self-reflective. I think this series made people appreciate other facets of Dragon Ball. In 2007, when the Orange Bricks were released, I (like millions of others) got to experience the series in Japanese for the first time. I was expecting to re-watch Dragon Ball Z thinking that I'd enjoy it as some cheesy nostalgic trip. But, I was actually taken aback at how good it really was; even from an adult's perspective (mid 20s). I thought the production itself (let alone the psychology/mythology behind it all) was incredible and so ahead of its time. I think Team Four Star channeled this adult interpretation of the series and encapsulated it perfectly for a new generation.

I do feel a little sad that we may never get to see their take on Majin Vegeta; imo the best depiction of mid-life crisis I've seen in anime. But, I feel that way because I know how insanely talented they are. I really think this series went beyond a conventional youtube satire series. It formed a community and made people appreciate Dragon Ball on a much deeper level.
Disagree. Nothing about that dumb show is well made. The jokes aren't funny and the "performances" are amateurish in every way possible. They've had very little genuine impact beyond a few references that infected their way into Kai's dub, and the show is worse off for it. I feel like Mugatu at the end of Zoolander yelling why everyone can't see through it all. How the hell this dumb show got any sizeable fan base is beyond me.

It's not satirical, it's a parody. Satire has a point to make.

If all the series ever was seen as was an amusing fanmade parody, that would be fine, but for years, people insist on placing far too much importance on this series than it deserves. I'm not even talking about its quality.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:56 pm
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.
I think that's unfair. TFS's jokes were already memes throughout much of the DB community. Yamcha is a loser, Krillin dies all the time, Goku is a lousy father, and disdain for power levels all predate TFS by years.
Fair point. Perhaps it’d be more accurate to say DBZA reinforced those interpretations in the larger fandom.
To the point of over-exaggeration. After that Goku's idiocy and failings as a father were exaggerated so ridiculously in the fandom, and I've seen so many people say he doesn't care about Gohan at all, and that Vegeta was a way better father, even though he physically attacked Future Trunks many times, and did way more to endanger him than Goku did (and him letting Gero build the Androids was already pretty bad, but after that he did try). People also forget that Goku apologized for his selfish behavior when he sacrificed himself to Cell, and in the Buu arc, while he still made some stupid decisions, his heart was in the right place at that point, which showed that he was making an effort to improve.

I'm so sick of seeing TFS quotes every other place I see DB being discussed. I never found it terribly funny, anyway. I understand and admire the effort that went into it, but it never was the funniest thing in the world to me, and the overexposure (which really hit its peak when the TFS fan asked about Abridged when Schemmel and Nozawa were at that convention, which was a big fucking deal, as Biden would have put it).
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Planetnamek » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 pm

I'm not sure how much influence DBZA had on Super, either way i'm glad it exists.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:54 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 pm I'm not sure how much influence DBZA had on Super, either way i'm glad it exists.
I’m not sure about Super but in the Broli movie the “*I heard this planet was repugnant” joke seemed to be a nod to the “You just use words you hear other people use to sound smarter” gag in DBZA.

There’s a few abridged jokes in Kai like the wilhelm scream being used in the corresponding scene or Nappa’s “I hate the media” line.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Arteaga4K » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:06 pm

Even though I enjoy the abridged series for what it is, I really, REALLY don't like it when funimation tries to mimic their humor onto a dub. It wasn't so bad in Kai TFC, but in Super I feel like they went out of their way to appease TFS fans. Wish they'd just focus on producing a great quality dub like they did for Kai 1.0 and the 2013-present movies. Then again, Super feels like a parody of the original series anyway, so I'll give funimation the benefit of the doubt and say that's what there thought process was. Doesn’t make it right button still. Because movies don't really seem to have that problem.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Thanos » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:20 pm

I've long been of two minds about TFS. On one hand, I can't deny how well done it is, and they've had a lot of genuinely funny moments. I generally don't get much out of the popular memes, but there are some really good moments in it.

On the other hand, I feel like it has subplanted a chunk of the Dragon Ball zeitgeist to where you have a certain segment of the fandom whose only exposure to the series is, in fact, Abridged. I know someone who watched DBA in preparation to watch Super. Say what!? On YouTube you'll see plenty of conversations regarding whose voice they favor, and you'll see plenty of people cite one of the voices from DBA. While that in itself isn't that big of a deal, it speaks to a larger point that I find a bit frustrating. I feel like no one on Kanzenshuu is ever going to blur the lines between the series proper and a parody, such isn't necessarily the case among "normie" groups.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:37 pm

TFS in my opinion share no credit in reviving Dragon Ball (not that they'd say they have any I'm sure). Abridged is what you'd call a "Lull Work". It's popular enough on its own but it doesn't do anything to bring that series back. It's kinda like all the YouTube videos made between Revenge of the Sith and the first teaser for The Force Awakens, like the Harry Plinkett reviews and stuff like that.

Abridged overall is destructive to me though because, as mentioned elsewhere, it's only served to confirm in MANY people's minds that Dragon Ball is not a product you watch "straight" and with any sort of seriousness because it is inherently dumb and thus has no artistic merit, which is patently untrue. The original dub is incredibly banal and dumb but the underlying story from the source material* is still very compelling and can stand on its own, but Abridged has only destroyed that reputation for 90% of people in the west.

*I just realized how funny it is that the Funi dub is so far removed from the Japanese version that, despite being a "translation" of it, you can call the Japanese version the source material without raising any eyebrows.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Planetnamek » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:56 pm

KBABZ wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:37 pm TFS in my opinion share no credit in reviving Dragon Ball (not that they'd say they have any I'm sure). Abridged is what you'd call a "Lull Work". It's popular enough on its own but it doesn't do anything to bring that series back. It's kinda like all the YouTube videos made between Revenge of the Sith and the first teaser for The Force Awakens, like the Harry Plinkett reviews and stuff like that.

Abridged overall is destructive to me though because, as mentioned elsewhere, it's only served to confirm in MANY people's minds that Dragon Ball is not a product you watch "straight" and with any sort of seriousness because it is inherently dumb and thus has no artistic merit, which is patently untrue. The original dub is incredibly banal and dumb but the underlying story from the source material* is still very compelling and can stand on its own, but Abridged has only destroyed that reputation for 90% of people in the west.

*I just realized how funny it is that the Funi dub is so far removed from the Japanese version that, despite being a "translation" of it, you can call the Japanese version the source material without raising any eyebrows.
I find the notion of DBZA being in any war "destructive" utterly laughable frankly. Especially considering DBZA did actually start going for a more serious tone in season 3 and had some genuine emotional moments just like the show did. So no I don't think it's at all true that abridged has "Destroyed" anything, quite the contrary it's actually gotten people into the franchise that otherwise would not have(Linkara mentioned on twitter how he previously had no real interest in DBZ until DBZA came along).
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:40 pm

I mean, without access to FUNimation's sales data, I don't think there's any official way to show a correlation between the rise of TFS and a revival of Dragon Ball's popularity. That said, it wouldn't surprise me. If Thing A and Thing B are related, it only stands that one would remind you of the other (e.g., if I watch Spaceballs, it inevitably sets off a chain reaction that leads to me wanting to watch Star Wars somewhere down the line). I also recall Lanipator mentioning that he heard of people buying season sets of DBZ to refresh their memory of the story and so they'd be able to understand TFS's future jokes.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:15 am

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.
I think that's unfair. TFS's jokes were already memes throughout much of the DB community. Yamcha is a loser, Krillin dies all the time, Goku is a lousy father, and disdain for power levels all predate TFS by years.
But the Goku dad jokes especially were insanely popularized by them to the point where causal fans believe that as canon.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:45 am

Dbzfan94 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:15 am
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:58 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:46 pm It certainly made people push jokes from a parody series into their reading of the actual show.
I think that's unfair. TFS's jokes were already memes throughout much of the DB community. Yamcha is a loser, Krillin dies all the time, Goku is a lousy father, and disdain for power levels all predate TFS by years.
But the Goku dad jokes especially were insanely popularized by them to the point where causal fans believe that as canon.
I'm not so sure. Toriyama himself believes Goku is a lousy dad. Whatever reach TFS has, I just don't see it being enough to influence the Japanese community. The Japanese community had also already meme'd the hell out of Yamcha by the time TFS got started if the videogames are anything to go by.

There's probably a case to be made that TFS shifted perception among English speaking anime fans but world wide? I just don't see it
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:59 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:54 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 pm I'm not sure how much influence DBZA had on Super, either way i'm glad it exists.
I’m not sure about Super but in the Broli movie the “*I heard this planet was repugnant” joke seemed to be a nod to the “You just use words you hear other people use to sound smarter” gag in DBZA.
That line was in the original audio and seemed more like a callback to Sorbet having to have the word "salubrious" (or whatever it was in Japanese) explained to him in ROF.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:38 am

This thread is the funniest joke ever. 10 OUTTA 10.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:37 am

Anecdotally, a ton of people got into -- or back into -- Dragon Ball because of TFS, and as we know, Chris Sabat appreciate TFS so much that he repeatedly tried to get them into Funi's dubs (to mixed success).

So, it would be foolish to say they've had no impact on Dragon Ball at all. The only people saying that tend to be people who simply don't like TFS's work, and try to undermine it through the same kind of childish means people restort to when saying "GT isn't canon". It's not criticism, it's just people grasping at straws to try to invalidate something they dislike.

Frankly, with the number of views TFS's content has had in the past, and with the massive fan support they've had over the years, and the countless anecdotes of people getting much joy out of not only TFS's content, but out of Dragon Ball in general, from TFS getting them into (or back into) the proper show... To me, TFS's impact is nothing but positive. At worst, you watched some of their content, didn't like it, and moved on. At best, TFS provided a version of the Namek and Cell arcs that you prefer to the original in many ways. Which is pretty great. Even people who don't like TFS can't deny that they've brought much joy to many, many people with their work.

...

But Toei don't like TFS. And people getting into -- or returning to -- Dragon Ball thanks to TFS is anecdotal, and there's nothing to say many of these people wouldn't have got back in because of Kai or Super anyway. So, while their impact on the fans can't be denied, it's impossible to say if they've had any impact on Dragon Ball's revival itself, either in terms of the product or the sales figures, and honestly, since their reach mostly only covers the west, and Toei tend to only really care about what's going on in Japan, it is unlikely that TFS actually had an effect on the revival itself, or any of the revival era shows, even if Funi like to do a nod and a wink at them whenever they can. Honestly, that's possibly my #1 criticism of Funi's work on TFC and Super; it's like Funi are trying to be more like TFS with their deviations from the original script, but that diminishes the quality of their work as a translation of the original. So, maybe one could even argue there's been a slightly negative effect on the official product. Though given Funi's long history of doing as they please with Dragon Ball's dubs, I very much doubt TFS are really to blame for TFC and Super's dubs having screwy scripting.

So... It really depends on which angle of Dragon Ball's revival you consider more important...
Either TFS has a positive effect on various fans' experiences.
Or TFS had no real effect on the revival shows themselves.
Both are true, and I'd argue both are valid answers to the OP question, but both address entirely different sides to the question.
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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:35 am

Metalwario64 wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:07 pm I'm so sick of seeing TFS quotes every other place I see DB being discussed. I never found it terribly funny, anyway. I understand and admire the effort that went into it, but it never was the funniest thing in the world to me, and the overexposure (which really hit its peak when the TFS fan asked about Abridged when Schemmel and Nozawa were at that convention, which was a big fucking deal, as Biden would have put it).
Dude I'm so sick of these type of comments as well, they're everywhere.
I think the parody is pretty good, at times very funny, other times well written. But the community, good lord the community, they're the worst.
They'll use the same jokes over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over until you vomit.
This made me... kind of glad that Abridged is over.

Back on point... I think there might be some influence. If I'm not mistaken, in XV one of the Custom Character's voices is from one of the dubbers.
But still, that's regarding the general media. Toriyama decided on his end and will entirely to revive DB.

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Re: Team Four Star's influence on Dragon Ball's revival

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:54 am

The mere fact that a group of people got together to make a "parody" dub and has subsequently become so big that we're discussing them on a regular basis, and even the dub actors constantly get asked about them, shows their success.

To those that say that TFS is overrated and all of that negative, terrible stuff, I direct your attention to this: they're just a group of fans who made a parody of the series on YouTube. It doesn't deserve the outrage from people and it doesn't deserve the hate. But it's an undeniable fact that TFS has stamped their mark on the franchise. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. To think any less shows denial and immaturity.

Nobody's asking anyone to like TFS or think of them as a replacement dub, but come on. Give credit where credit is due -- they're synonymous with the series. And if you don't think they are, then I direct your attention to this thread's existence and everyone in it knowing exactly who and what we're talking about.

I can't believe that something so fun and innocent gets so many mixed reviews. No, it's not really legal -- at all. But, it's not like that should deter someone from enjoying it. It's harmless fun. Harnless fun that has given joy to many and hasn't siphoned a penny away from Toei nor Funimation.

Plus, it's a great way to dip someone's toes into the series without forcing them to watch about 100 episodes of it (and that's Kai). The story pretty much comes across, even if some things are obviously "non-canon."

I don't know -- haters gotta stop hating.

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